Bitcoin is a inherent Ponzi Scheme, please correct me if I'm wrong

[odolvlobo]

... it does not have any inherent value - that it can't really be used for anything other than trade with someone else who also deems it valuable. ...

You are contradicting yourself. You state that it has no value because it cannot be used for anything, but you note that it does have a use! It has a use and that gives it value. If someone wants to trade with bitcoins, they must obtain bitcoins from someone else. That gives it value.

Your basic argument is based on the Mises Regression Theorem and there are two points to be made about that. First, the Theorem is not proven -- it is more of a generalization or a hypothesis. Second, the evidence for the Theorem is historical (and anecdotal), and that doesn't preclude a new currency from proving it wrong.

[Trance]

After figuring out how the mining works, that it becomes increasingly more difficult obtain, wouldn't that just cause the price to keep on increasing, like it will never stabilize and outside of the speculative fluctuations, the price will always continue to rise and the guys who set it up and invested early sit on an asset that will continually appreciate in value. The distribution won't ever be even and prices will never stabilize for it to be an viable currency for trade. So the guys who created bitcoin really made a Ponzi scheme for themselves as the price is always set to rise due to the increasing mining difficulty

You're wrong, you have been corrected !

[seriouscoin]

I cant believe OP is in media publication.

hey OP, what sort of education you have? You're the exact reason why media is a joke.

You should never write about something you dont have a clue.

Ppl here have given you info yet you're still fcking stupid enough to say " inherent value"

There is no such thing as "inherent value" dumb ass. All resources in the world are worthless until human can find their utilities.

Silicon was worthless, until human discovered its semiconducting feature.

[Bobtimus]

Ok people, I'm talking about a man made resource with a finite supply being supposedly used as a currency. I admit I have phrased some things incorrectly, I don't have a degree in economics, only journalism. I'm addressing a problem that I see with using something like bitcoin as a currency and no one, in this 4 page thread has really given me a solution, just run arounds like 'read up on it yourself.' So far there has not really been a stable price, which is essential for a currency of trade. From the useful posts, people seems to be denying that Bitcoin is a Ponzi (fair enough, I agree) but haven't denied its speculative nature, that there is a finite supply and obtaining it raw will get increasingly more difficult. Doesn't having such highly speculative features render its primary objective - being a self-regulating currency - useless? I think this resonates even in the current trend where more people are using it for price speculation rather than trade and sustaining an mobile economy.

Can someone please explain to me how this problem might untangle. That somehow these speculative features will balance out over time and a stable price could be achieved. Because otherwise there really is no financial revolution and it is just like every other speculative bubble like the Dutch tulips.

I draw a distinction between Bitcoin and natural resources because I believe there is a inherent value in natural resources. You can use it to do something else. Silicon was traded because people found a use for it, otherwise it would just lie on the ground worthless! People only traded for natural resources, not traded in.

Would be great if someone can actually help me because I am trying to write as accurately as possible and I haven't found any online resources that discuss this issue.

[seriouscoin]

Ok people, I'm talking about a man made resource with a finite supply being supposedly used as a currency. I admit I have phrased some things incorrectly, I don't have a degree in economics, only journalism. I'm addressing a problem that I see with using something like bitcoin as a currency and no one, in this 4 page thread has really given me a solution, just run arounds like 'read up on it yourself.' So far there has not really been a stable price, which is essential for a currency of trade. From the useful posts, people seems to be denying that Bitcoin is a Ponzi (fair enough, I agree) but haven't denied its speculative nature, that there is a finite supply and obtaining it raw will get increasingly more difficult. Doesn't having such highly speculative features render its primary objective - being a self-regulating currency - useless? I think this resonates even in the current trend where more people are using it for price speculation rather than trade and sustaining an mobile economy.

Can someone please explain to me how this problem might untangle. That somehow these speculative features will balance out over time and a stable price could be achieved. Because otherwise there really is no financial revolution and it is just like every other speculative bubble like the Dutch tulips.

I draw a distinction between Bitcoin and natural resources because I believe there is a inherent value in natural resources. You can use it to do something else. Silicon was traded because people found a use for it, otherwise it would just lie on the ground worthless! People only traded for natural resources, not traded in.

Would be great if someone can actually help me because I am trying to write as accurately as possible and I haven't found any online resources that discuss this issue.

Then dont bother trying. Understand what it is first.

The fact that you keep saying "man made resource" makes me think you dont even give this any fcking thought and just spilling stuff.

Man made material such as carbon fiber are all processed from natural resource. Do you think its coming from thin air? Only fiat money comes from thin air (hence the term "fiat"). Bitcoin supply is from mining. You used energy and computer resources to "mine" bitcoin. The supply rate of bitcoin is known and by design. Its finite number of quantities is not an issue for using it as currency because 1 btc is dividable in 8 decimals (more than all the fiat currencies in the world--combined). As a form of money, we never had a deflationary money ever so you cant say it wont work.

As for you point of "speculative feature", bitcoin economy is small, ofcourse it will be speculative. In fact every commodities in this world is being speculated by various investors. It seems you keep talking this garbage because you still dont understand the value (not price) of bitcoin.

Does email protocol has any value to you? just because you're using it freely (hence no price), doesnt mean it has no value (otherwise, no1 will offer email service for free ....cough gmail, hotmail...). What if i told you in near future, there will be financial services offered from institutions that utilize bitcoin network? You as a customer use this service at free(or very low fee) and you dont even have to own a single bitcoin. Creditcards are free to you right? guess what? nope, merchants paid for it so its passed right to you. You're just fooled by thinking its free!

Using bitcoin as currency isnt very practical right now due to lacks of legit exchanges around the world. However the network will grow so does the popularity of bitcoin.

[bitsat alien]

BTC (cryptocurrency)Blockchain ... is a momentous technological development 
it is not ponzi scheme !

[beetcoin]

Certain aspects of Bitcoin do appear to have certain characteristics of a Ponzi scheme in so far, as early adopters (people on top of the typical Ponzi-pyramid or Ponzi-row) profit most from it, if they decide to hold their coins. But Bitcoin doesn't need new people in order to work or in order to remain functioning.

okay then, i guess stocks are a ponzi scheme. also oil futures, or any other traded assets.

benefiting early adtopers is not a quality uniquely inherent to bitcoin.

[Bobtimus]

Ok, I think people are still missing my point. That bitcoin has a finite supply like a natural resource, but can't really be used for anything else except for 'storage of wealth." I get that it takes computer energy to mine a bitcoin, and it will take more and more energy, but that doesn't take away from the fact that you can't do anything else with the bitcoin made, except for the market dictated value that people believe in. This market value, will inherently increase as there is a finite supply of Bitcoins. Isn't this a economical problem for the currency, as its purpose is trade and not speculation.

I'm finding that people who think they know really don't know how an economy works.

[Bobtimus]

Certain aspects of Bitcoin do appear to have certain characteristics of a Ponzi scheme in so far, as early adopters (people on top of the typical Ponzi-pyramid or Ponzi-row) profit most from it, if they decide to hold their coins. But Bitcoin doesn't need new people in order to work or in order to remain functioning.

okay then, i guess stocks are a ponzi scheme. also oil futures, or any other traded assets.

benefiting early adtopers is not a quality uniquely inherent to bitcoin.

Yes, these things are all speculative bubbles that if applied to a currency will cause a lot of financial damage to people. People use money day to day and can easily be caught out whilst not even speculating.

[zubelutte]

Ok maybe using the term Ponzi is a bit too much. Certainly saying Ponzi like might imply a lot more. But no one's disagreeing that bitcoin, with its finite supply is a speculative goldmine, just like oil, housing and other natural resources, except for that it does not have any inherent value - that it can't really be used for anything other than trade with someone else who also deems it valuable. Doesn't its speculative properties render it obsolete as an viable form of currency for trade, which is it's supposed primary purpose. Or is bitcoin made for speculative purposes? Satoshi made something else for people to speculate on, just like those dutch tulips. Forget Ponzi, think man made speculative bubble

But because a lot of people using Bitcoin, Bitcoin has value. If Bitcoin loose userbase, it loose value. The same with any natural resource, once some natural resource is not used anymore, it loose value.

[Soros Shorts]

Ok, I think people are still missing my point. That bitcoin has a finite supply like a natural resource, but can't really be used for anything else except for 'storage of wealth." I get that it takes computer energy to mine a bitcoin, and it will take more and more energy, but that doesn't take away from the fact that you can't do anything else with the bitcoin made, except for the market dictated value that people believe in. This market value, will inherently increase as there is a finite supply of Bitcoins. Isn't this a economical problem for the currency, as its purpose is trade and not speculation.

I'm finding that people who think they know really don't know how an economy works.

I think this feature makes Bitcoin an ideal store of wealth. What is wrong with a currency whose buying power does not diminish over time? When the gold standard was in place the US dollar was both a good place to park your money and use to conduct international trade and commerce. Now the USD is no longer a good store of long term value.

At this point in time the value of Bitcoin is still unstable, a lot of this due to speculative forces. However once Bitcoin is widely used and has a larger market cap then its speculative appeal will lessen and price will stabilize. There is really nothing wrong with a currency whose value gradually increases over time, which is what you seem to be asserting, so long as the day-to-day fluctuations remain small.

[Unkle]

I think people who claim bitcoin to be a ponzi either A don't understand bitcoin or B don't know what a ponzi is.

[bigasic]

The USA's Social security program has to be the biggest ponzi scheme of them all. If all users stopped paying into the program, there would be no money left to pay the senior citizens. if it werent a ponzi, there would be plenty of money in the accounts to cover everything Thats why the government is letting some companies opt out of the social security program.My son in law has to pay 12 percent into his own program, but doesn't pay into the national social security program. why? because it wont be around for him when he need it. If your under 40 years old, soc. security wont be around for you. If your 40 or older, well be lucky if its there for us..

There are so many ponzi schemes out there. I dont see any hint of bitcoin being a ponzi at all. I dont see how people can even accuse of bitcon being a ponzi. I got into it early, i paid for the coin, or mined it. no promises, etc. just something to give an excuse to not use bitcoin.

[Buo]

Usually people who think that bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme are newbies who doesn't know how bitcoin works.

[QuestionAuthority]

The USA's Social security program has to be the biggest ponzi scheme of them all. If all users stopped paying into the program, there would be no money left to pay the senior citizens. if it werent a ponzi, there would be plenty of money in the accounts to cover everything Thats why the government is letting some companies opt out of the social security program.My son in law has to pay 12 percent into his own program, but doesn't pay into the national social security program. why? because it wont be around for him when he need it. If your under 40 years old, soc. security wont be around for you. If your 40 or older, well be lucky if its there for us..

There are so many ponzi schemes out there. I dont see any hint of bitcoin being a ponzi at all. I dont see how people can even accuse of bitcoin being a ponzi. I got into it early, i paid for the coin, or mined it. no promises, etc. just something to give an excuse to not use bitcoin.

This is the truest thing said yet. Please change Bitcon to Bitcoin in the second paragraph. Freudian slip?

[MichaelBliss]

I don't have a degree in economics, only journalism.

Then for God's sake fix the grammar in you're subject line!   

Actually, I can't believe you are a journalist based on just that.   No way you graduated.

[Mars not Moon]

This is very old question. Google is your friend

And BTC isn't ponzi scheme lol.

[Ayers]

big difference is that a ponzi scheme is centralized bitcoin, isn't, one could argue that the mining aspect of bitcoin is a bit like a "ponzi", it could be true only with a 51% attack

[Hasher99]

After figuring out how the mining works, that it becomes increasingly more difficult obtain, wouldn't that just cause the price to keep on increasing, like it will never stabilize and outside of the speculative fluctuations, the price will always continue to rise and the guys who set it up and invested early sit on an asset that will continually appreciate in value. The distribution won't ever be even and prices will never stabilize for it to be an viable currency for trade. So the guys who created bitcoin really made a Ponzi scheme for themselves as the price is always set to rise due to the increasing mining difficulty

It is now,give me a standing proof that it is and I would handover all my bitcoin to you.Bitcoin is a change,bitcoin is a new game we must trust

[redskins49]

The USA's Social security program has to be the biggest ponzi scheme of them all. If all users stopped paying into the program, there would be no money left to pay the senior citizens. if it werent a ponzi, there would be plenty of money in the accounts to cover everything Thats why the government is letting some companies opt out of the social security program.My son in law has to pay 12 percent into his own program, but doesn't pay into the national social security program. why? because it wont be around for him when he need it. If your under 40 years old, soc. security wont be around for you. If your 40 or older, well be lucky if its there for us..

There are so many ponzi schemes out there. I dont see any hint of bitcoin being a ponzi at all. I dont see how people can even accuse of bitcoin being a ponzi. I got into it early, i paid for the coin, or mined it. no promises, etc. just something to give an excuse to not use bitcoin.

This is the truest thing said yet. Please change Bitcon to Bitcoin in the second paragraph. Freudian slip?

I think it was likely a pun to try to get people to think of bitcoin as a ponzi/scam. This may be a "freudian slip" if this is what that is.