Bitcoin Forum
December 08, 2019, 05:53:36 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.19.0.1 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  

Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: BTC-Rating IPO  (Read 1159 times)
btc-rating
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 8
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
April 10, 2014, 10:29:44 PM
 #1

Pitch:
Bitcoin users want to experience better safety while dealing with exchange platforms.
Several example of failure could have been avoided if there was an independent auditing service to warn users.

BTC-Rating proposes to build a standard with good practices for exchange platforms and will propose auditing services to evaluate exchanges’ ability to provide a trustable service.

www.btc-rating.com

Presentation:
BTC-Rating is a Swiss initiative, which takes its roots early 2013.
We are a group of people passionate about bitcoin and we are hardly working to improve the bitcoin ecosystem.

The bitcoin ecosystem needs self-regulation in order to add a layer of trust between bitcoin exchanges users and operators. BTC-Rating is the first initiative, which is intending to bring this layer of trust, auditing exchange platforms and providing a trust grade for each of them.

BTC-Rating will act as a consulting company, providing consulting services to its clients:

  • Audit services
  • Credit rating of bitcoin companies
  • Bitcoin business consulting

As an actor of the bitcoin ecosystem, and being the first provider of professional and reliable rating services of exchange platforms, we will take advantage of this exponentially growing environment and generate  at least 50k USD/months before the end of the first operating year.

Why a fund raising:
We would like to raise 420 BTC to be able to kickstart our venture. This capital will be spend to:

  • Rent office in Switzerland
  • Hire IT security expert
  • Marketing
  • Attend conferences
  • Visit first clients

Social responsibility:
We believe that our initiative should bring a good image of bitcoins to the large public. This is why we will encourage NGOs and Charities to advertise their actions on our website.

As much as we can, we’ll audit them for free, to report to bitcoin users about their activities.

Legal and structure:
The company will be registered in Switzerland and will be managed as a decentralized autonomous company (DAC).

Issue details:
We issue 420'000, non-dilutable stocks, at the price of 0.001 BTC each, representing 20% of the company.

The company will be regulated with a democratic system:

There are tow sorts of voting rights:
1/By shares of the company, where 1% of the shares represents 1% of the voting rights
2/The board, formed by the 12 persons with the highest number of shares

Questions will have to be approved by double majority: the majority of shareholders and the majority of the board

A question will be addressed to the shareholders when:
  The majority of the board wants to address a question to shareholders
or
  20% of the shareholders submit a question

Dividends and reporting:
Dividends will be paid quarterly, while issuing a quarterly report with:

  • Detailed activity report
  • Financial report
  • Summary of the strategy for the following quarters

Buying shares & publication of shares:
For this IPO, you can send your bitcoin at: 18qWgGk9dhaGdAoqgdqaB3jZH8ZB4SDDaQ

Make sure you use a personal wallet and that you are not sending Bitcoin from an exchange platform. If you’re sending from an exchange anyway, please PM me so we can adapt your return address in our database (you'll have to prove that the payment is yours). This will be important to pay dividends.

The list of shares vs. bitcoin address will be published on the website so you can see yours.

PM us to apply for a board membership.

DAC:
There are several options under development such as Ethereum, Mastercoin, Bitshares… to run a DAC. As soon as BTC-Rating will be mature enough, we’ll decide democratically on which platform to go.

Board:
To be a member of the board, you must have control of at least 5% of the shares of the company and you must apply (currently, sending a PM). The communication between board members will be organized, sharing email addresses.

Modification of the status:
A modification of the voting structure has to be approved by 60% of shareholders and 66% of the board.
A modification of the status (except voting structure) has to be approved by 51% of shareholders and 7 board members (51%).

Current team:
We are active in the bitcoin community since late 2012 in Switzerland (and another country where Bitcoins are illegal;)
If you want a personalized contact, do not hesitate to PM
1575827617
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1575827617

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1575827617
Reply with quote  #2

1575827617
Report to moderator
Whoever mines the block which ends up containing your transaction will get its fee.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1575827617
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1575827617

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1575827617
Reply with quote  #2

1575827617
Report to moderator
1575827617
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1575827617

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1575827617
Reply with quote  #2

1575827617
Report to moderator
thy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 685
Merit: 500


View Profile
April 11, 2014, 12:24:36 AM
 #2

Pitch:
Bitcoin users want to experience better safety while dealing with exchange platforms.
Several example of failure could have been avoided if there was an independent auditing service to warn users.

BTC-Rating proposes to build a standard with good practices for exchange platforms and will propose auditing services to evaluate exchanges’ ability to provide a trustable service.

www.btc-rating.com

Presentation:
BTC-Rating is a Swiss initiative, which takes its roots early 2013.
We are a group of people passionate about bitcoin and we are hardly working to improve the bitcoin ecosystem.

The bitcoin ecosystem needs self-regulation in order to add a layer of trust between bitcoin exchanges users and operators. BTC-Rating is the first initiative, which is intending to bring this layer of trust, auditing exchange platforms and providing a trust grade for each of them.

BTC-Rating will act as a consulting company, providing consulting services to its clients:

  • Audit services
  • Credit rating of bitcoin companies
  • Bitcoin business consulting

As an actor of the bitcoin ecosystem, and being the first provider of professional and reliable rating services of exchange platforms, we will take advantage of this exponentially growing environment and generate  at least 50k USD/months before the end of the first operating year.

Why a fund raising:
We would like to raise 420 BTC to be able to kickstart our venture. This capital will be spend to:

  • Rent office in Switzerland
  • Hire IT security expert
  • Marketing
  • Attend conferences
  • Visit first clients

Social responsibility:
We believe that our initiative should bring a good image of bitcoins to the large public. This is why we will encourage NGOs and Charities to advertise their actions on our website.

As much as we can, we’ll audit them for free, to report to bitcoin users about their activities.

Legal and structure:
The company will be registered in Switzerland and will be managed as a decentralized autonomous company (DAC).

Issue details:
We issue 420'000, non-dilutable stocks, at the price of 0.001 BTC each, representing 20% of the company.

The company will be regulated with a democratic system:

There are tow sorts of voting rights:
1/By shares of the company, where 1% of the shares represents 1% of the voting rights
2/The board, formed by the 12 persons with the highest number of shares

Questions will have to be approved by double majority: the majority of shareholders and the majority of the board

A question will be addressed to the shareholders when:
  The majority of the board wants to address a question to shareholders
or
  20% of the shareholders submit a question


Dividends and reporting:
Dividends will be paid quarterly, while issuing a quarterly report with:

  • Detailed activity report
  • Financial report
  • Summary of the strategy for the following quarters

Buying shares & publication of shares:
For this IPO, you can send your bitcoin at: 18qWgGk9dhaGdAoqgdqaB3jZH8ZB4SDDaQ

Make sure you use a personal wallet and that you are not sending Bitcoin from an exchange platform. If you’re sending from an exchange anyway, please PM me so we can adapt your return address in our database (you'll have to prove that the payment is yours). This will be important to pay dividends.

The list of shares vs. bitcoin address will be published on the website so you can see yours.

PM us to apply for a board membership.

DAC:
There are several options under development such as Ethereum, Mastercoin, Bitshares… to run a DAC. As soon as BTC-Rating will be mature enough, we’ll decide democratically on which platform to go.

Board:
To be a member of the board, you must have control of at least 5% of the shares of the company and you must apply (currently, sending a PM). The communication between board members will be organized, sharing email addresses.

Modification of the status:
A modification of the voting structure has to be approved by 60% of shareholders and 66% of the board.
A modification of the status (except voting structure) has to be approved by 51% of shareholders and 7 board members (51%).

Current team:
We are active in the bitcoin community since late 2012 in Switzerland (and another country where Bitcoins are illegal;)
If you want a personalized contact, do not hesitate to PM
2 posts sofar on bitcointalk, who are you, whats your real bitcointalk account.

I hope you mean that you are working hard to improve it, not that "and we are hardly working to improve the bitcoin ecosystem."

420btc/20% so you valuate the company at 2100 btc, thats a lot, whats the full registered name and adress and so on for the company in swiss.

If you issue 20% shares to the public and keep 80% yourself(or your group) and there should be 12 boardmembers how do you expect to have 11 other public investors to have control of at least 5% of the shares, your math don't add up, unless...
there really already is a group of at least 9+ people thats behind this company and having relatively evenly spread out ownership in the company, 5% * 9 = 45% of the owned shares, please state the full information on those 9+ boardmembers.

What exchange platforms have BTC-Rating been rating since early 2013, where has the rating scores for all companys you have been continually rating (month by month?) since early 2013 been avaliable since then.

So the public shareholders have no way to raise a question if there is at least 1 public share is owned by you/your current group and you(/your group) is against the question and there is no possibillity for public shareholders to get a questions approved if you(r) current group is against the question.

Who is/will be paying for your service, how will you generate profit for dividends ?

Neo.op
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 910
Merit: 252

Merhaba


View Profile WWW
April 11, 2014, 05:55:38 AM
 #3

The valuation is just off the charts and doesn't allow any public investors to have say..well thats .......
btc-rating
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 8
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
April 11, 2014, 06:49:33 AM
 #4

2 posts sofar on bitcointalk, who are you, whats your real bitcointalk account.

I hope you mean that you are working hard to improve it, not that "and we are hardly working to improve the bitcoin ecosystem."

420btc/20% so you valuate the company at 2100 btc, thats a lot, whats the full registered name and adress and so on for the company in swiss.

If you issue 20% shares to the public and keep 80% yourself(or your group) and there should be 12 boardmembers how do you expect to have 11 other public investors to have control of at least 5% of the shares, your math don't add up, unless...
there really already is a group of at least 9+ people thats behind this company and having relatively evenly spread out ownership in the company, 5% * 9 = 45% of the owned shares, please state the full information on those 9+ boardmembers.

What exchange platforms have BTC-Rating been rating since early 2013, where has the rating scores for all companys you have been continually rating (month by month?) since early 2013 been avaliable since then.

So the public shareholders have no way to raise a question if there is at least 1 public share is owned by you/your current group and you(/your group) is against the question and there is no possibillity for public shareholders to get a questions approved if you(r) current group is against the question.

Who is/will be paying for your service, how will you generate profit for dividends ?

Thanks for your feedback. Means that everything is not clear enough.

Following your points:

Isn't it legit to create a new account for a new project? I actually created my first account in July 2013, and I actually bought my first bitcoin late 2012. Does it bring anything to the validity of the business model? I guess not.

The goal is to raise 160kUSD to start. At the time of sending the post, BTC price was about 380 USD/BTC. 

As you may have noticed, I wrote: "The company will be registered in Switzerland" using the future and meaning that the company is not yet registered.
I wrote: "takes its roots early 2013", and not "created", "initiated", nor "started to operate". If I say "takes its roots early 2013", it is because I had the idea back early 2013 and I already talked about this to my colleagues at this time, being shocked with respect to AML/KYC processes of bitcoin-24. But right, since then, we are working hard... Wink but not on this project.

We are currently 3 persons involved and we'll have indeed the remaining - dilutable - 80% shares of the company - at the beginning. This will be diluted anyway at some point - the sooner, the better!

Concerning your questions about the number of people in the board, I must apologize and correct my sentence as following:
"The board, formed by at most the 12 persons with the highest number of shares"
The limit of 5% might be changed in the future, if we see a need for that. However, it's important for us to have board members that have the control on a significant part of the shares.

Last but not least: how to generate profit?
The idea is to become the equivalent of S&P, but in the bitcoin world, with the bitcoin standards (DAC).
I have personally been through the rating process of an insurance company in Switzerland, and I know what I'm talking about when I talk about auditing services. A complete new methodology has to be developed, dedicated to cryptocur exchange platforms.
I wrote: "BTC-Rating will act as a consulting company, providing consulting services to its clients".
The business model is nothing else than selling consulting services and man/days.

As an investor, you may argue that this is a USD business and not a BTC business. I agree. However, if you have a large quantity of BTC, isn't your goal to invest
- in companies, which work hard in improving the self-regulation standard of the market?
- in companies, which work toward a wider adoption of bitcoin by masses?
As a USD business, we also expect to grow with the bitcoin ecosystem. Thus, I believe that it make sense to invest BTC in this venture.

Concerning my identity, I have nothing to hide and I'll have anyway to talk to the medias as soon as the company starts operating.
I wrote: "If you want a personalized contact, do not hesitate to PM"
Neo.op
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 910
Merit: 252

Merhaba


View Profile WWW
April 11, 2014, 07:53:45 AM
 #5

Thanks for your feedback. Means that everything is not clear enough.

Following your points:

Isn't it legit to create a new account for a new project? I actually created my first account in July 2013, and I actually bought my first bitcoin late 2012. Does it bring anything to the validity of the business model? I guess not.

You seem to have confused validity of business model with trust. Lets say tomorrow a man and Warren Buffet walk up to you - each of them say hey! invest 160k with me. Who are you going to trust more? (irrespective of Warren Buffet's plan is to sell two horned unicorns)
btc-rating
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 8
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
April 11, 2014, 08:39:50 AM
 #6

You seem to have confused validity of business model with trust. Lets say tomorrow a man and Warren Buffet walk up to you - each of them say hey! invest 160k with me. Who are you going to trust more? (irrespective of Warren Buffet's plan is to sell two horned unicorns)

That's the whole point of this thread: attract investors in projects.
FYI, I'm not competing with Buffet.

This actually all depends on who you are:
If you're an investor willing to invest for fast ROI and be able to sell your shares on day 2, this is definitely not now.
If you like the project, and you are willing to actively participate at the board, this is more than welcome. Let's discuss!
If in addition, you want to actively participate to the project, and get paid in shares, this is even more welcome.
Finally, if you believe that spending a fraction of your bitcoin wealth on this project will increase the value your remaining bitcoin in the future, this is the right place.

@thy
if tomorrow 9 people want to get involved in the project, that would be an excellent news for the project Wink Knowing well the dynamics of projects, I know that it may take some time.
btc-rating
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 8
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
April 11, 2014, 01:23:26 PM
Last edit: April 11, 2014, 06:09:28 PM by btc-rating
 #7

See here.

Really, you fail at all these points.

I've read this thread almost a year ago, and I've spend a lot of time reading the following discussion.
This is one of the things that convinced me about the revolutionary aspect of bitcoin, and I agree with Mircea on what he says on this post.
Understanding WOT and the possibilities given by bitcoin, made me understand many aspect of this new economy.

I would argue that Mircea's vision is quite long term, and there is still a long way before a generalized economy based on WOT.
There will be exchanges for a long time and some of these will turn out to be just gateways, issuing crypto-USD. These gateways will still need to be audited by an independent organization.

I know that Mircea criticized the bitcoin foundation and I disagree with him. They are working toward mass adoption of bitcoins, and nobody else make such a work today. The fact that bitcoin is legally recognized by states is a big step forward for bitcoin, and it increases the value of it, what should make Mircea happy.

BTC-Rating is also working toward mass adoption of bitcoins.
mikaeldice
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 29
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 11, 2014, 07:24:52 PM
 #8



You have done nothing to prove that you are capable of implementing and operating your project.

You have done nothing to justify the valuation you give to your project. 

You have not disclosed how much capital you and your partners are bringing to the table for your 80% ownership stake.  Without that disclosure, I assume that you bring no capital.  You mention hiring an IT consultant but don't mention whether you and your partners are receiving a salary or compensation as well, in addition to the ownership stake, or what said salaries are.

You mention divesting yourself of part of your ownership stake at some undisclosed time in the future.  The term you used was 'the sooner the better'.  Why are you already planning to sell some portion of your remaining shares off if this project has the potential you claim?

You have done nothing to show me that I can trust you with my money. 

You have provided no means of recourse in the event that you simply run away with the bitcoin.

If I am to respect you as a credit appraiser, auditor, or business consultant,  you will need to do a lot better than this.

NotLambchop
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 378
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 11, 2014, 07:51:24 PM
 #9

TL;DR: Send me ur money so I can start a rating agency (that tells you who not to send money to).
btc-rating
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 8
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
April 12, 2014, 02:04:09 PM
 #10


You have done nothing to show me that I can trust you with my money. 


People working with me would disagree with you.
Exchange platform operators with whom I'm talking would also disagree with you.
If you're interested in the project, let me know, and I would be happy to talk to you in private - facetime, skype... no prob.
I can then connect with you on linkedin and you'll have all the necessary proof of my ability to make it.

Concerning the valorization of the company, there are several things to be taken into consideration:
1/ This is a seed funding round, for an innovative business model, what makes it obviously difficult to valorize with tangible figures. This is why investors have to believe that this is an interesting business case. I'm happy to share detailed financial figures and perspectives with motivated investors.
2/ There is a motivated team, with experience in audit, bitcoin business consulting and IT
3/ We are well networked in the bitcoin community
4/ We have a business idea in which we believe and we are ready to start as soon as we have the necessary capital
-> my point is that this initial funding would cover the operating costs of the 6 first months, and I cannot afford investing 100% of my time doing it without this capital.

Obviously, if I'm in the process of leveraging funds, this is because I personally do not have these funds and my partners neither.

Again, my point is that nobody told me that my business case isn't valid (except for the WOT point, which I already knew before!). Please give me feedback on the business, not on people/team. The point, which concerns people/team, can be discussed in private.
scryptographer
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 143
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 12, 2014, 03:09:45 PM
 #11

Random thoughts and observations in no specific order:

So far no real answers seem to have been given. All answers are non-answers. E.g.



Quote
Quote
2 posts sofar on bitcointalk, who are you, whats your real bitcointalk account.
Isn't it legit to create a new account for a new project? I actually created my first account in July 2013, and I actually bought my first bitcoin late 2012. Does it bring anything to the validity of the business model? I guess not.

It's entirely legit, but why not post/link to the account you have previously used?


Quote
We would like to raise 420 BTC to be able to kickstart our venture. This capital will be spend to:[..]
  • Hire IT security expert
The money you are seeking to raise covers among other things an IT security expert? Am I to assume that none of the four people who are planning to run an IT security service has any IT security experience?
What qualifications/funding do the existing team bring to the company (which is yet to be founded)?
Who are the people behind this? You tell us to priv.msg you, but all potential investors would want this information. Why not put it here in public? Surely, when you register your company officially this information will be publicly known anyways.

I see noone questioning the concept/business case, but you are offering nothing to suggest that your team is the right team for this venture.


Your website links to a long list of exchanges, why the referral links? Surely a $50k/month idea is not going to need the few referral earnings that can be made from this? Also this poses the question of subjectivity. How can I trust that your audits are fair, when you at the same time are relying on referral earnings as part of your income stream?

What is your relation to btcplanet.com?

Quote
You mention divesting yourself of part of your ownership stake at some undisclosed time in the future.  The term you used was 'the sooner the better'.  Why are you already planning to sell some portion of your remaining shares off if this project has the potential you claim?

Very valid point, if this is such a great business opportunity, why are you so eager to get out?

Quote
TL;DR: Send me ur money so I can start a rating agency (that tells you who not to send money to).
Cheesy

btc-rating
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 8
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
April 12, 2014, 05:32:46 PM
 #12

So far no real answers seem to have been given. All answers are non-answers. E.g.
No real question neither! Thanks for your interesting comment.

The money you are seeking to raise covers among other things an IT security expert? Am I to assume that none of the four people who are planning to run an IT security service has any IT security experience?
We all have security experience at various levels. One of us is very good and experienced, but several expertises will be necessary for sure.

What qualifications/funding do the existing team bring to the company (which is yet to be founded)?
Who are the people behind this? You tell us to priv.msg you, but all potential investors would want this information. Why not put it here in public? Surely, when you register your company officially this information will be publicly known anyways.

I see noone questioning the concept/business case, but you are offering nothing to suggest that your team is the right team for this venture.
Do you like the idea? why don't you PM?


Why the referral links?
What is your relation to btcplanet.com?
None.


Also this poses the question of subjectivity. How can I trust that your audits are fair
This is indeed a very good point, and if you look at how a rating agency works today, they are supposed to be independent when they rate credit risk of countries, which is possible, because they offer this service for free.

In a long term vision, I would indeed like to be able to offer this service for free.

At the moment, serious exchange platform operators are demanding such a service, because of what happened to Gox.
Auditing exchange platforms requires building and establishing good practices for them, and this is going to be long process that I am willing lead. Since exchanges are in need of such a service, they can also pay for the development of this service.

Building such a service will be possible only with exchanges, and not against them.


Quote
You mention divesting yourself of part of your ownership stake at some undisclosed time in the future.  The term you used was 'the sooner the better'.  Why are you already planning to sell some portion of your remaining shares off if this project has the potential you claim?

Very valid point, if this is such a great business opportunity, why are you so eager to get out?
I believe that it has a great potential, and this is why I'm doing this!
I'm not 'so eager to get out', but I am willing to share the company with people willing to get into this venture with me.
The more people get interested in this project, the best it would be for the project, wouldn't it be?
sporket
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280
Merit: 250



View Profile
April 12, 2014, 05:50:16 PM
 #13

...
At the moment, serious exchange platform operators are demanding such a service, because of what happened to Gox...

So send them your pitch deck, OP, let them serious demanding exchange operators fund you.  Problem solved.
scryptographer
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 143
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 12, 2014, 06:05:01 PM
 #14

Do you like the idea? why don't you PM?
Another great example of a non-answer.

Because so far you have given me no evidence that it would be anything but a waste of my time. You had the opportunity to provide some answers, but you chose not to.
While I can only speculate on motivation for this, it does not instill any confidence in your attempt to get money for nothing.

btc-rating
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 8
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
April 14, 2014, 10:29:49 AM
 #15

So send them your pitch deck, OP, let them serious demanding exchange operators fund you.  Problem solved.

With respect to independence while performing audit, that wouldn't be the best if the company is owned by serval exchange platforms...

VCs or crowdfunding are the two possible options, and I'm working on both!
NotLambchop
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 378
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 14, 2014, 11:04:54 AM
 #16

So send them your pitch deck, OP, let them serious demanding exchange operators fund you.  Problem solved.

With respect to independence while performing audit, that wouldn't be the best if the company is owned by serval exchange platforms...

VCs or crowdfunding are the two possible options, and I'm working on both!

Lol OP, simply don't rate the companies owned by the "serious exchange operators" that finance you, why must I explain everything?
And which "serious exchange operators" are demanding you service?
Thus far, every Bitcoin "rating agency" turned out to be
(a) a scam,
(b) run by the intellectually challenged, or
(c) both.

The most recent example was Herp Rating Agency, run by .  In a burst of hilarity, Herp was B& from this forum for maniacally shilling NeoBee, the the vanishing bitcoin bank. 

Derp.



Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!