FPGA's and Mining

[DarkWolf]

Hi,
This may seem like a very stupid question, but I am wondering why FPGA's aren't used instead of ASICS? Part of the answer is probably that I just do not have enough knowledge about hardware and the costs involved. By the way does anyone have a list of the prices for The latest FPGA's like the Xilinx Virtex ultra scale family with 4000000 Logic cells.

[frankenmint]

Hi,
This may seem like a very stupid question, but I am wondering why FPGA's aren't used instead of ASICS? Part of the answer is probably that I just do not have enough knowledge about hardware and the costs involved. By the way does anyone have a list of the prices for The latest FPGA's like the Xilinx Virtex ultra scale family with 4000000 Logic cells.

same reason why cpu mining died a long time ago.

I think it goes like this:

FPGA = complex computing circuits built into the silicon

CPU = complex computing circuits also built into the silicon

Asic = simple computing circuit that is repeated continuously over the surface area of the silicon

FPGA and CPU can only use a tiny sliver of the computing circuits available to do the BTC hashing

Asics use THEIR ENTIRE computing surface area to calculate hashes.  (Mining hardware vendors simply run their tape-out then start the tedious assembly work of combining our chips resistors ferrite beads capacitors and boards)

FPGAs were used at one point because they were off the shelf and available to work with a much smaller power and subsequent heat footprint (compared to GPUs)  As we see, this trend was short-lived as Avalon and bitfury chips flooded the scene (KNC and Bitmain were simply the nails in the coffin of the FPGA Bitcoin mining business)


I basically took out the 'non factor' hardware vendor companies there because they didn't hardly make a dent in btc difficulty levels compared to those mentioned.

[DarkWolf]

OK, thanks. I suppose FPGA's would take over the market if they were substantially cheaper. The reason why I say this is because they would be reprogrammable and do the same job as an ASIC even if they are slightly less efficient, so you could mine other coins on them. They can also be more power efficient than most other variants if I'm not mistaken.

[DrG]

OK, thanks. I suppose FPGA's would take over the market if they were substantially cheaper. The reason why I say this is because they would be reprogrammable and do the same job as an ASIC even if they are slightly less efficient, so you could mine other coins on them. They can also be more power efficient than most other variants if I'm not mistaken.

Bitcoin itself went through a small FPGA phase.  It didn't really take off because of the big BFL lie/threat about putting out ASICs in November of 2012 and because it didn't represent a significant cost savings over GPUs to warrant the spending to design and program them.

Sure they were energy efficient compared to a GPU but for people with cheap electricity the sheer abundance/utility of GPUs kept FPGA from making any significant gains.

[DarkWolf]

Thanks, makes sense. The FPGA's aren't capable enough for bit coin mining anymore, I reckon you can get maximally 8-9 GH/s for the Virtex ultra scale with 4000000 gates, scaled from the 215 MH/s spartan 6. Scrypt is feasible but you know at 10000£ or more for a single chip thats just ridiculous, its just not powerful enough. Sadly it seems chips like these are 5-10 years away from being cost effective.

 Thanks for the help, its really appreciated. 

OK, thanks. I suppose FPGA's would take over the market if they were substantially cheaper. The reason why I say this is because they would be reprogrammable and do the same job as an ASIC even if they are slightly less efficient, so you could mine other coins on them. They can also be more power efficient than most other variants if I'm not mistaken.

Bitcoin itself went through a small FPGA phase.  It didn't really take off because of the big BFL lie/threat about putting out ASICs in November of 2012 and because it didn't represent a significant cost savings over GPUs to warrant the spending to design and program them.

Sure they were energy efficient compared to a GPU but for people with cheap electricity the sheer abundance/utility of GPUs kept FPGA from making any significant gains.

[DarkWolf]

Is there any type of hardware that has the same function as an FPGA but is cheaper? Probably a stupid question, because if it is cheaper, and does the same thing, why would anyone use an FPGA.

[brontosaurus]

Is there any type of hardware that has the same function as an FPGA but is cheaper? Probably a stupid question, because if it is cheaper, and does the same thing, why would anyone use an FPGA.

Not really, modern FPGAs are set up as multipurpose devices, complete systems on silicon, as it were but reconfigurable. They contain multiple memory blocks, memory controllers and DSP functions, all of these soak up most of the 'gates'. SHA256 needs only the gates, and even then logical function blocks in FPGA are very inefficient at implementing them.

Might be slightly better for SCRYPT mining, but never looked into it, but would probably still be beaten by an asic solution by an order of magnitude.

[BitcoinAddicts]

Hi,
This may seem like a very stupid question, but I am wondering why FPGA's aren't used instead of ASICS? Part of the answer is probably that I just do not have enough knowledge about hardware and the costs involved. By the way does anyone have a list of the prices for The latest FPGA's like the Xilinx Virtex ultra scale family with 4000000 Logic cells.

FPGA is not as efficient as ASIC.  But it is more efficient as compare to GPU..

[DarkWolf]

I suppose all our GPU's will contain FPGA's then when their price is right.

Hi,
This may seem like a very stupid question, but I am wondering why FPGA's aren't used instead of ASICS? Part of the answer is probably that I just do not have enough knowledge about hardware and the costs involved. By the way does anyone have a list of the prices for The latest FPGA's like the Xilinx Virtex ultra scale family with 4000000 Logic cells.

FPGA is not as efficient as ASIC.  But it is more efficient as compare to GPU..

[brainape]

Pulling up an old thread, but seemed to be the best place to get the correct answers.

I've found a 18 chip Spartan 6 rig in my hometown and modestly priced.  It's raised my interest, but from what I can tell these FPGA rigs pretty much hit the scrapyard.  Info seems to be dated and most of it comes from this forum.

I am a GPU miner.  My open air 4 card rig quietly hums in the corner of the basement.  It was fairly easy for me to put together, and after about a year of it I'm quite comfortable switching algos and pools in a flash.

I fear these FPGAs will be like trying to learn a foreign language.  Probably more of a hobby and a toy but it might be fun.  I'd doubt this machine would make any profit, but I'm thinking it may be nice to have around in the future.  I see they can be used for alot of different functions.

Did FPGAs become boat anchors? Anything else cool that could be done with it? Take the cash and just buy btc...especially now?

[Dexter770221]

Pulling up an old thread, but seemed to be the best place to get the correct answers.

I've found a 18 chip Spartan 6 rig in my hometown and modestly priced.  It's raised my interest, but from what I can tell these FPGA rigs pretty much hit the scrapyard.  Info seems to be dated and most of it comes from this forum.

I am a GPU miner.  My open air 4 card rig quietly hums in the corner of the basement.  It was fairly easy for me to put together, and after about a year of it I'm quite comfortable switching algos and pools in a flash.

I fear these FPGAs will be like trying to learn a foreign language.  Probably more of a hobby and a toy but it might be fun.  I'd doubt this machine would make any profit, but I'm thinking it may be nice to have around in the future.  I see they can be used for alot of different functions.

Did FPGAs become boat anchors? Anything else cool that could be done with it? Take the cash and just buy btc...especially now?

Forget a profit from FPGA's. These days it's impossible (maybe with some altcoins). Big boards with many chips usually have a weak power suplies. 2-3W per chip is to small to achieve haspower comparrable to specifically designed boards with powers up to 20W. Besides type of connection to exterior world (PC, ethernet, USB) will force you to write your own drivers and core implementation into FPGA. Not worth of a hassle.

[BTCish]

No use from those FPGA's nowadays. Sad.

[Bananana]

No use from those FPGA's nowadays. Sad.

Not really, if you can make the FPGA to mine x11 or any other new algo then it will be very profitable.