New user here with a mining question...

[opentoe]

Hello. My name is Michael and I live in the US. Just been using BTC's for a couple weeks now and I believe I've gotten over the worst learning curves. I'll just get right down to the question. I was looking to upgrade my video card to do some mining then came across the X6500 card. You basically power it up with an AC adapter, and use a USB cable to connect it to your computer. Also, have to keep it cool. I was wondering if in reality these are worth it? If I leave that running for a couple weeks, do you think there would be any pay out at all? Would I choose to setup a solo mining operation or go with a pool using this? Anyway, sounds very interesting and I love gadgets. What really through me off my horse was the $600 price tag. I suspect the board's cost is like $100 or less for sure. So the mark up is really high. Thanks!


Michael

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[bitsforcoins.com]

I'm unfamiliar with the X6500, and Google isn't helpful.  It points toward the Nvidia 6500 card, maybe that's what you meant.  Nvidia cards are very inefficient for mining because of the way they work internally, versus AMD/ATI.

Your best bet to buy something for around $600 to mine with, and works with USB, would be the Butterfly Labs Single.

[Xmufa23X]

I assume this is what OP is talking about https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40058.0

[camolist]

i have two ztex boards running (like x6500 but single core so ~200mh each instead of the 400 each for x6500)

would not recommend solo on a single x6500 on average it would take 7ish months to find a block

running on p2pool getting regular (small) payouts on my ztex boards

http://blockexplorer.com/address/1GwS8RxnBdrUAPCCA15LnHou5V7ehwBT5t
is the address i'm mining to currently - i should be getting ~.25 BTC a day but luck on the pool has been a bit bad since i joined.. but that should turn around



the ztex boards i got are more for experimenting then anything i have 2 6500s on the way and plan to up that to probably 6 along with 10 singles (www.butterflylabs.com/)  that i plan on turning a profit with over time

[tarrant_01]

You could always go with http://www.butterflylabs.com/products/.  They have a similar product at $600 that produces 832 Mhash/s.  They are starting to fill orders from January now if anyone mentions the wait time.  Also, I think about 1800-ish Mhash/s equals 10 bitcoin every 7 days.  It might be more now with the rising difficulty, but this is how it was for me for a while.

[OgNasty]

x6500 = FPGA miner

FPGAs cost more than the typical GPU, but use less electricity, are quieter and give off much less heat.  If you want an operation that won't be loud, hot and use a ton of electricity, FPGA is the way to go.  Another great option is the Bitforce Single mentioned above:  http://www.butterflylabs.com/products/

I agree with above poster that you shouldn't be solo mining with 1 miner.  If you get above 3gh/s, then you should consider solo mining.  Unless you enjoy playing the lottery. 

An even more radical idea is to invest BTC in Bitcoin mining companies listed on the GLBSE. 

[RyNinDaCleM]

Remember, Bitcoin is still in "beta" phase. Should it happen to flash from existence, a GPU will easily re-sell, whereas a purpose built FPGA will be a $600 paperweight, and not even a good one at that.

[OgNasty]

Remember, Bitcoin is still in "beta" phase. Should it happen to flash from existence, a GPU will easily re-sell, whereas a purpose built FPGA will be a $600 paperweight, and not even a good one at that.

Good point, although if Bitcoin were to flash from existence tomorrow, you would see GPUs selling for $10 on eBay, whereas an FPGA chip like the x6500 could be stripped and resold for a decent amount (around $300 I would assume).  It has also been speculated that the FPGA BFL uses in their Bitforce Single was purchased at a large discount and could be worth thousands.  Sort of works both ways...  In any event, there are always risks.  Good advice is to educate yourself and make the best decision based on your personal circumstances.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Good point, although if Bitcoin were to flash from existence tomorrow, you would see GPUs selling for $10 on eBay

LOLZ.  Yup GPU would be worthless.  $10 you sure you don't want to retract that?  A 5970 which can still play just about any game out there at high resolution will be selling for $10?  A 7970 which is current the #2 gamer card will be selling for $10?  No gamer on the planet would be willing to buy one for say $400?  or $350? or hell $300?

[OgNasty]

Good point, although if Bitcoin were to flash from existence tomorrow, you would see GPUs selling for $10 on eBay

LOLZ.  Yup GPU would be worthless.  $10 you sure you don't want to retract that?  A 5970 which can still play just about any game out there at high resolution will be selling for $10?

Way to use an extreme example...  No need for a retraction.  I was simply stating that there would be a "rush for the exits" with GPUs as well.  I doubt there is much demand for old, beat up 5770s without Bitcoin.  Add in shipping and eBay/PayPal fees and you'd be lucky to make out with $10 for one of those if BTC were gone tomorrow (I can use extreme examples too).

[DeathAndTaxes]

Way to use an extreme example...  

Well it was your example.  Mining isn't that big.  GPU market in long run will absorb sell off just fine.  

The discrete GPU market is $20B a year (note that excludes integrated and hybrid GPU/CPU products).  

Lets say all 10TH/s are GPUs (not a single CPU miner, no FPGA, no botnets, etc).  
Lets use an average of $0.50 per MH.  
That's ~$5M in GPUs used for mining.  Hell lets double that and say ~$10M in GPUs are used in mining world wide.

That is out of a market that moves $20B in product annually.   
Now lets pretend they were all purchased in one year.

Under the most unrealistic of scenarios GPU used for mining are still <1% of global market. 

[OgNasty]

Way to use an extreme example... 

Well it was your example.

Yes, and thank you for assuming I was only referring to high end cards like the 5970.  You know what happens when you assume...  I was merely throwing up a counter argument for the newbie OP to consider.  Hence my advice to educate himself and make a decision that he is comfortable with.  It is good to know both extremes.  Thank you for supporting the other side of the conversation (which was already stated, and I was speaking in response to).

DISCLAIMER:  I OWN MULTIPLE 5870s, 5970s, 7970s & Bitforce Singles.

[legolouman]

Good point, although if Bitcoin were to flash from existence tomorrow, you would see GPUs selling for $10 on eBay

LOLZ.  Yup GPU would be worthless.  $10 you sure you don't want to retract that?  A 5970 which can still play just about any game out there at high resolution will be selling for $10?  A 7970 which is current the #2 gamer card will be selling for $10?  No gamer on the planet would be willing to buy one for say $400?  or $350? or hell $300?

5970's are 2000 less than 7970's, shouldn't 7970's be 2000% more than 7970's?

[opentoe]

Being realistic if I had one X6500 miner board going 24/7 getting around 400, what would be a payout in average going solo and/or pool? I'm just wondering if trying out the X6500 board is even worth it? I DO NOT plan on hooking up multiple ones. This is really for my interest/project and cause I like stuff like this. I like the miner boards cause I don't need to use a computer case and can also use a regular AC adapter. And then all I need is a USB cable to hook into my laptop/computer.

[Unacceptable]

Use this:

http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php

Just type in your Mega/hash & the current price of BTC to see what may earn

If I were to start mining now,I'd go with 5830 (200+ mhs)or 5850's (240 mhs ??).Something like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121576

Get a cheap dual core CPU,1-2 gig of ram,an old HDD & a decent PSU.My little setups were about $160 or so then the vid card,6950 (350-360 mhs,240-300 watts).

If you have the money though,the BFL singles (830 mhs,6 month warranty) are the bomb (a bit of waiting list,but worth it IMO),ROI in about 4-6 months each,only 80 watts power draw too (I know X6500/Icarus are alot less @ about 20 watts,BUT ROI is in 14-17 months & NO WARRANTY at all.Ztex supposedly has a 2 year warranty,but may only apply to EU,not sure in USA).