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Author Topic: George Zimmerman arrested for 2nd degree murder for killing Trayvon Martin  (Read 13117 times)
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April 12, 2012, 04:37:14 AM
 #1

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/12/tagblogsfindlawcom2012-blotter-idUS371331303320120412

this is starting to smell like 1992.

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April 12, 2012, 06:22:31 AM
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It's about time that douchebag got arrested.

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April 12, 2012, 06:48:11 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NRown_Kkzk

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April 12, 2012, 09:06:34 AM
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Are we making guesses as to what will happen?  My guess is they will take a year or so to get to court and then he will be acquitted.

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April 12, 2012, 12:08:13 PM
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Are we making guesses as to what will happen?  My guess is they will take a year or so to get to court and then he will be acquitted.

He won't be acquitted. It depends for how long he is going to jail for. Also they charged him with 2nd degree, not voluntary manslaughter.
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April 12, 2012, 04:22:32 PM
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Are we making guesses as to what will happen?  My guess is they will take a year or so to get to court and then he will be acquitted.

He won't be acquitted. It depends for how long he is going to jail for. Also they charged him with 2nd degree, not voluntary manslaughter.

Murder in the second degree, under Florida law, refers to a killing carried out without premeditation but with “a depraved mind regardless of human life.”

If the person screaming for mercy in the 911 call was the boy, surely the charge would be murder in the first degree?  My guess is based on the prosecutor believing that the person calling out was Zimmerman.  That makes proving "a depraved mind regardless of human life" very difficult.

The WaPo says much the same but of course they too are only guessing: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_print.html

I guess we have 12 months to wait before we find out.


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April 12, 2012, 05:10:18 PM
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If the person screaming for mercy in the 911 call was the boy, surely the charge would be murder in the first degree?  My guess is based on the prosecutor believing that the person calling out was Zimmerman.  That makes proving "a depraved mind regardless of human life" very difficult.

In general 1st degree murders are premeditated ones, i.e. the person planned days in advance. It doen't apply at all here.

I thought it they would go for manslaughter, but they chose a tougher one. Most likely they will try prove that it was a fight with both side participating in it. Wild guess - they would make an analogy of a bar fight, both sides are guilty of fighting. Since Zimmerman killed his opponent, it's a 2nd degree murder.

Remember if some a retard on a street comes to me and starts asking me questions, I am legally within my rights to tell him go fuck himself. Zimmerman, I assume, got pissed about that and got in scuffle, by trying to hold Martin which resulted in punches traded and Zimmerman shooting Martin.

^^^ Just a bar fight, with one idiot having a gun.

Prosecutors just need to prove that Zimmerman challenged Martin (verbally), it doesn't really matter beyond that point.
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April 12, 2012, 09:21:12 PM
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If the person screaming for mercy in the 911 call was the boy, surely the charge would be murder in the first degree?  My guess is based on the prosecutor believing that the person calling out was Zimmerman.  That makes proving "a depraved mind regardless of human life" very difficult.

In general 1st degree murders are premeditated ones, i.e. the person planned days in advance. It doen't apply at all here.

I thought it they would go for manslaughter, but they chose a tougher one. Most likely they will try prove that it was a fight with both side participating in it. Wild guess - they would make an analogy of a bar fight, both sides are guilty of fighting. Since Zimmerman killed his opponent, it's a 2nd degree murder.

Remember if some a retard on a street comes to me and starts asking me questions, I am legally within my rights to tell him go fuck himself. Zimmerman, I assume, got pissed about that and got in scuffle, by trying to hold Martin which resulted in punches traded and Zimmerman shooting Martin.

^^^ Just a bar fight, with one idiot having a gun.

Prosecutors just need to prove that Zimmerman challenged Martin (verbally), it doesn't really matter beyond that point.

Doesn't the "stand your ground" law mean the exact opposite of that?  If Zimmerman felt threatened, wasn't he entitled to kill? 

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April 12, 2012, 09:50:01 PM
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Doesn't the "stand your ground" law mean the exact opposite of that?  If Zimmerman felt threatened, wasn't he entitled to kill? 

I think the fact that Zimmerman was chasing Trayvon (and thus created the situation which lead to the shooting) changes the interpretation somewhat, but I'm no lawyer.
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April 12, 2012, 10:28:31 PM
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Doesn't the "stand your ground" law mean the exact opposite of that?  If Zimmerman felt threatened, wasn't he entitled to kill?  

No. Deadly forced is only authorized when the person must prevent great bodily harm.

While above isn't clearly defined, it usually means a lost of a limb or imminent death. Broken nose doesn't count as great bodily harm.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html
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April 12, 2012, 10:40:50 PM
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Doesn't the "stand your ground" law mean the exact opposite of that?  If Zimmerman felt threatened, wasn't he entitled to kill? 

I think the fact that Zimmerman was chasing Trayvon (and thus created the situation which lead to the shooting) changes the interpretation somewhat, but I'm no lawyer.

...or was it Trayvon acting suspiciously that created the situation which lead to the shooting?  So many questions...
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April 13, 2012, 05:58:05 AM
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...or was it Trayvon acting suspiciously that created the situation which lead to the shooting?  So many questions...

This is irrelevant. Zimmerman can only claim that he was walking around and minding his business when Martin attacked him. That's his only defense, anything else will convict him.


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April 13, 2012, 08:17:01 AM
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...or was it Trayvon acting suspiciously that created the situation which lead to the shooting?  So many questions...

This is irrelevant. Zimmerman can only claim that he was walking around and minding his business when Martin attacked him. That's his only defense, anything else will convict him.




The law does not say Zimmerman has to mind his own business.  Zimmerman just can't be involved in a criminal act while claiming self defense.  I think the special prosecutor just passed the buck to the trial judge.  If the trial judge doesn't have any balls then they will pass the buck to the jury.

If everything Zimmerman claims is true then he will be suffering when the civil lawsuit bankrupts him for life and the guilt for killing a 17 year old boy.  If he did kill Zimmerman not out of self defense but because of an emotional response of fear or anger then he will still lose the civil lawsuit.

My point is, not everyone has to go to jail for justice to occur.  Maybe after this people will mind their own business.  Zimmerman's problem is that he acted like the police too much.  He probably talked to them a lot after the shooting that could be used against thim.

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April 13, 2012, 12:12:57 PM
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Doesn't the "stand your ground" law mean the exact opposite of that?  If Zimmerman felt threatened, wasn't he entitled to kill? 

Stand your ground actually would have protected Trayvon in this case had he killed Zimmerman.  It does not in any way protect the aggressor.  The law is reasonably clear, unlike the prosecutor in Florida.

While one can argue how it sounds to the public but the charge should have been manslaughter.  I felt Trayvon was murdered, but the EVIDENCE does not support that.  The evidence supports manslaughter.  The prosecution has a pretty big shot of screwing it up and having Zimmerman being found not guilty with the murder charge.  A manslaughter charge and conviction would have served to dissuade others from repeating the same acts.

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April 13, 2012, 12:29:50 PM
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The law does not say Zimmerman has to mind his own business.  Zimmerman just can't be involved in a criminal act while claiming self defense.  I think the special prosecutor just passed the buck to the trial judge.  If the trial judge doesn't have any balls then they will pass the buck to the jury.

If everything Zimmerman claims is true then he will be suffering when the civil lawsuit bankrupts him for life and the guilt for killing a 17 year old boy.  If he did kill Zimmerman not out of self defense but because of an emotional response of fear or anger then he will still lose the civil lawsuit.

My point is, not everyone has to go to jail for justice to occur.  Maybe after this people will mind their own business.  Zimmerman's problem is that he acted like the police too much.  He probably talked to them a lot after the shooting that could be used against thim.

I quoted the law, but here are the relevant parts. If he didn't mind his business, he's an aggressor. In any case it's up to Zimmerman to prove his innocence - that's how self defense cases work.


776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1190, ch. 97-102.

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April 13, 2012, 02:26:23 PM
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Ah, but Trayvon was the original instigator in this matter, and he got what was coming to him.  He went looking for a fight and found one he couldn't handle, and died because of his own actions. No amount of crying, or "I could have been him 20 years ago" bullshit is going to change the facts of this matter. Zimmerman acted in self-defense after a premeditated assault, and the world has lost one more wanna-be gangbanger. Boo fucking hoo.

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April 13, 2012, 02:31:27 PM
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Ah, but Trayvon was the original instigator in this matter, and he got what was coming to him.  He went looking for a fight and found one he couldn't handle, and died because of his own actions. No amount of crying, or "I could have been him 20 years ago" bullshit is going to change the facts of this matter. Zimmerman acted in self-defense after a premeditated assault, and the world has lost one more wanna-be gangbanger. Boo fucking hoo.

Huh.
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April 13, 2012, 02:34:11 PM
 #18

Zimmerman was on public property. He was a neighborhood-watchmen. He wasn't hurting nobody (not even Trayvon) by watching him. If Trayvon didn't like it, he could simply leave.

No altercation is justified.

If it is true that Trayvon tried to grab Zimmerman's gun, then the results (the fatality) are justified.

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April 13, 2012, 03:06:06 PM
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Martin was on public property. He was a neighborhood resident. He wasn't hurting nobody (not even Zimmerman) by walking home. If Zimmerman didn't like it, he could simply leave.

No altercation is justified.

FTFY

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April 13, 2012, 03:07:05 PM
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Zimmerman was on public property. He was a neighborhood-watchmen. He wasn't hurting nobody (not even Trayvon) by watching him. If Trayvon didn't like it, he could simply leave.

No altercation is justified.

If it is true that Trayvon tried to grab Zimmerman's gun, then the results (the fatality) are justified.

It all comes down the the screams for help.  If it was Trayvon, I am baffled as to how Zimmerman isn't facing a murder 1 charge.  If it was Zimmerman, why is he facing any charge at all?


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