Coin-Sweeper | #1 Bitcoin Minesweeper Site From Bitcoin Talk Members | 1% Edge

[Coin-Sweeper]

I will be creating a new thread for the giveaway which will start this Saturday/Sunday I will announce it in this thread first so make sure you are watching this space!

In the meantime I put a little something in your accounts to have a try!

[DiceBitcoin]

    Its funny as hell, even if House Edge is huge. VERY entertaining, its perfect to blow some steam(and mBTC)
Btw, i understand the luck factor. Where on Earth is the skill factor??

for the record



Too bad it was practise mode though!

[Coin-Sweeper]

  Its funny as hell, even if House Edge is huge. VERY entertaining, its perfect to blow some steam(and mBTC)
Btw, i understand the luck factor. Where on Earth is the skill factor??

for the record

Too bad it was practise mode though!

A few people have been asking us where the skill is. Mathematically there shouldn't be any skill involved - every game has the same odds with a 1% edge so should have the same outcome. Over many many many games the house edge will average out to 1% of the amount gambled.

But in the real world it seems to make a big difference. When people are playing practice games (like you were) the house edge is coming out around 7.5%~ in the houses' favor. While for games with real money the house edge is coming out around 0.7%~. This suggests that whatever 'skill' or 'techniques' people are using when they play real games is making a big difference in their outcome!

It was too bad it was practice mode - a win of that size would have put your game firmly on the front page! The current biggest win (in absolute numbers, not relative) was Game #12509:
https://www.coin-sweeper.com/gameViewer?games=12509
They took home 0.753 BTC on the 21 bomb grid!

[espringe]

But in the real world it seems to make a big difference. When people are playing practice games (like you were) the house edge is coming out around 7.5%~ in the houses' favor. While for games with real money the house edge is coming out around 0.7%~. This suggests that whatever 'skill' or 'techniques' people are using when they play real games is making a big difference in their outcome!

I think you have quite a neat concept, and it does seems pretty polished -- but I must say, I find this sort of talk and the strategies listed on the homepage as being very off-putting and borderline dishonest. Instead of telling people the truth, you seed them with superstitious nonsense (like lucky sha's, really?) and just in general try trick people into playing the tiles a sort of multi-armed bandit problem.

[Coin-Sweeper]

Thanks for the feedback espringe. The strategies listed aren't prescriptions or enforced. They were written for a bit of fun and to hopefully get people thinking about how they can approach the game

As it says under the 'Strategies' heading on the How To Play page, "In our experience people develop their own strategies for success with Coin-Sweeper. You will need to find what works best for you!". I'm sorry you feel like I've been borderline dishonest - that's not my intention. You quoted a snippet of my post and right before what you quoted I did clearly state the mathematical facts. I encourage those reading this to read my original post too in the original context (#24 in this thread).

People make their own decisions about what they do with their bitcoins. My personal experience is that people with bitcoins seem to have higher IQs than the average person (let's be fair, you need to be better with computers than the average person just to get a wallet! let alone go through the process of funding it) and I trust people to see straight through any trickery.

Going back to the original question: my read on the reason the percentages won/lost differ so much right now between real and practice games are a reflection of:
- people being more risk averse when real bitcoins are involved (or on the flip side, taking more risks when there aren't any consequences to clicking a bomb)
- the small number of games played (we're only 22,000~ games in - who knows how many games will be needed for it to converge on the 1% as written in the algorithm)

Happy to discuss this further here, or in private. Hope this makes my intent clearer and no hard feelings <3

[kanggoroo]

hmm ok will try this

my Unique Bitcoin Address: 12WeutaenZSCi9ws7ezRWYRTeV2obqutqt

thanks

[espringe]

Hope this makes my intent clearer and no hard feelings <3

No hard feelings at all. I realize how much time and energy went into making this game, and I think you've done a good job -- I just wish you'd market it a bit more honestly

Coin-Sweeper is a game of skill

No, it's not. It's the definition of a game that is pure chance!

develop their own strategies for success

But you know very well that there aren't strategies for success, yet you on to list strategies that you full well know do not work. Just be honest and say

"Fun ways to play the game! It won't change your odds, but can be a fun way to play"

My personal experience is that people with bitcoins seem to have higher IQs than the average person [....] and I trust people to see straight through any trickery.

Then why do it?! How do you expect people to trust you, when you are basically saying "oh, I'm only trying to trick low IQ people". Honestly, the whole thing doesn't sit well with me...

[Coin-Sweeper]

Going to take this on board and re-visit the wording. The clearer we can make it that there is a set house edge, regardless of strategy, the better it will be for new players.

I don't think it's fair to say people who play gambling games are low IQ. They way I think about it is that when people use a service they know what to expect. If you go into a coffee shop and get charged for your coffee people don't riot in the streets, it's understood that there is a charge for that service. When people visit a physical casino they know that the majority of the people leaving are leaving with less money than they entered with, but they play for their own reasons (be it hopes of a big win, that they enjoy the gameplay, to be social, or whatever). I believe people play online games for their own reasons too, and that the website is very explicit about the presence of a house edge. I'm going to adjust the wording based on your feedback so it's even clearer

How do you expect people to trust you

The same way we learn to trust or distrust others. A gradual process, based on how I behave. Trust takes weeks and months to earn and I'm not expecting anything for free. Thanks for the great questions - I'll drop a reply when the wording has been clarified, I appreciate your help

[espringe]

If you go into a coffee shop and get charged for your coffee people don't riot in the streets

A better analogy might be the coffee shop advertising "Calorie Free!" and then turning around and saying: "The ingredients list says it has sugar, only a low-IQ person would think sugar has no calories". Or more concretely, if the game isn't skill based -- don't call it skill based.

Or continuing the analogy, the strategy stuff is like putting up a poster in front of your coffee shop with: "How you could get a FREE COFFEE: SMILE WHEN ORDERING THE COFFEE" to lure customers in, all the while having a no free coffee policy ("..but they COULD get a free cofee").

[espringe]

Gave it a go:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/spa/f0lmlb6l9q465kn/591i3xv8.png

(as you can see, I'm quite a pussy)


Was fun, and quite polished -- well done

[BitBerau]

The Best Strategy..
Always WIN.. Yeah, sometime LOSE too..

http://prntscr.com/4jzi9l

[bitcoboss]

Coin-sweeper say they are a game of skill. This is misleading as there is no skill in this game. It's a casino game.
The strategies on the website have nothing to do with skill. You play against the house and in the end will always lose!

[Coin-Sweeper]

Thanks for the feedback. We've updated the website (both the How to Play page, and adding a FAQ) to make it much clearer that it's a game of chance. I've also updated the first post in this thread. Keep the feedback and coming and thanks for being gentle with us! Let us know if you still don't think it's clear.

Really cool seeing the screenshots. Congrats on your win espringe and not sure what to say about your screenie BitBerau, lol

[gordoh]

Its a nice game. I am really enjoying it. There is some strategy involved with regards to calculating risks. You have to decide how many squares to go for. In a way, I would regard that as sort of a strategy.

But yea the game is good! 

[bitcoboss]

Its a nice game. I am really enjoying it. There is some strategy involved with regards to calculating risks. You have to decide how many squares to go for. In a way, I would regard that as sort of a strategy.

But yea the game is good! 

but it is still a casino game and not a game of skill

[silvestar]

Nice game and site, but I would suggest you to mention your house edge % in your site FAQ page.

[christycalhoun]

Nice game... Really cool.  Made a small deposit but lost all so if you feel any mercy feel free to add me a lil small bit to make SURE i like as much as i think...
1Pw8U9TgCN6Q49HPYV3UyS9Dg5pCMbRy9H

 

[espringe]

Site seems pretty legit. Withdrew my winnings instantly. Provably fair checks out -- I haven't verified the odds, but at a quick look they look fine.

+1, would play again

[ryukamiho]

its kinda vicious @.@ i entered at visitbit and forgot everything else for like 30 minutes haha

please add 1Fzvuj3iTkcH6q5HxLKB3xmWRkK8KVXiDp

[ndnh]

Username: ndnhc

15grukeFGC2d4eN5XV3t9ca3wYShe26AJd

Looks Cool  

I entered the wrong username here first. My account is still credited with 1 mBTC  

Lost 1 mBTC in first click @ 3 bombs

Deposited 10mBTC anyway

And lost it