BitCoin Mining ROI

[miningforge]

After trying our best to provide to customers and to us  mining equipment we realised that actually like Avalon did long time ago.  NO IC's Manufacturer release any real working product out there.

Must of them have an unstable product, take preorders and decide to sell IC's when they know perfectly no one can use them.

We are making a calculation (more precise than web calculation but based on our own mining farm) it is IMPOSSIBLE to get ROI now days.

Before ROI is reached, rent, electricity, maintenance etc ... will become more expensive than the BitCoin generated.

We are wondering when seeing prices per GH out there how can people still buy. 

We would like instead of getting ripped  by IC's manufacturers supplying  us "crappy" IC, some sell more expensive IC than the full miner ex : ... A1 ...

If we can find a solution instead of Group buy that is actually not even interesting any more  jointtalent togheter to finally make a product that is interesting for all....
Big IC's manufacturer and big assembly factories  now have all the power in their hands are selfish and make everyone loose money..

This post is just a discussion post to try and assemble people in order to raise against those Giants industries.

[dogie]

Oh yes, and you are going to do what exactly?

[DrG]

Basically you're asking for a miner crowd-funded ASIC development that runs as a non-profit.  Any profits would be divested back to miners who would be considered shareholders.

AsicMiner started off this way - not sure how they're really standing at present.

The community does have the resources but I don't know if we have the energy to fight the very monsters that we have created.

[leozzo]

"I don't know if we have the energy to fight the very monsters that we have created"

Nice answer 

[Nagle]

Basically you're asking for a miner crowd-funded ASIC development that runs as a non-profit.  Any profits would be divested back to miners who would be considered shareholders.

AsicMiner started off this way - not sure how they're really standing at present.

The community does have the resources but I don't know if we have the energy to fight the very monsters that we have created.

Such a project would run too slowly. To compete in ASIC mining, you now have to go from new design to huge mining farms in months. Any delay reduces ROI, and significant delay (months) makes it negative. So to compete, you have to throw money at the problem and go for time to market, even if it raises costs.

It's also late to be getting into this. By Q1 2015, all miners will probably be losing money due to huge overcapacity.

[DrG]

Basically you're asking for a miner crowd-funded ASIC development that runs as a non-profit.  Any profits would be divested back to miners who would be considered shareholders.

AsicMiner started off this way - not sure how they're really standing at present.

The community does have the resources but I don't know if we have the energy to fight the very monsters that we have created.

Such a project would run too slowly. To compete in ASIC mining, you now have to go from new design to huge mining farms in months. Any delay reduces ROI, and significant delay (months) makes it negative. So to compete, you have to throw money at the problem and go for time to market, even if it raises costs.

It's also late to be getting into this. By Q1 2015, all miners will probably be losing money due to huge overcapacity.

If "we're" going to be losing money we might as well fund our own non-profit company and sink the funds into that.  Given the comments I have seen in the mining forums and the background of several of the bitcointalk members I would say we have more qualified members than many of the ASIC manufacturers from the end of 2013.

[philipma1957]

Basically you're asking for a miner crowd-funded ASIC development that runs as a non-profit.  Any profits would be divested back to miners who would be considered shareholders.

AsicMiner started off this way - not sure how they're really standing at present.

The community does have the resources but I don't know if we have the energy to fight the very monsters that we have created.

Such a project would run too slowly. To compete in ASIC mining, you now have to go from new design to huge mining farms in months. Any delay reduces ROI, and significant delay (months) makes it negative. So to compete, you have to throw money at the problem and go for time to market, even if it raises costs.

It's also late to be getting into this. By Q1 2015, all miners will probably be losing money due to huge overcapacity.

If "we're" going to be losing money we might as well fund our own non-profit company and sink the funds into that.  Given the comments I have seen in the mining forums and the background of several of the bitcointalk members I would say we have more qualified members than many of the ASIC manufacturers from the end of 2013.

At this point in time it is no longer about gear  it is about  the cost per gh  or should I say the cost per th to build a fully powered mining center. Along with the cost to power it and cool it. Asic miner sells about 8.2 th for 7.9 btc shipping included. (a ten pack of tubes)

Let me show you this clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPILhiTJv7E

 http://www.news.com.au/finance/china-building-mega-cities-but-they-remain-empty-sparking-fears-of-housing-bubble-burst/story-e6frfm1i-1226611169281

this is old news.  don't you think  if they build cities like this they can build data centers like mad.

F.  C .  will cut a deal and get cheap power and setup a silly big data center.   If he can  make 150ph in chips  funding them  by selling 1 or 2 ph here of tube miners.

  what will those other chips do?   If these cities are not a match made in heaven  for am's tubes I would be surprised.

How would a  little guy compete with this?
Or if FC does not cut a deal then bitmaintech will. bitmaintech just opened  a data center to buy into hashnest. they use  s-2's why s-2's  because  2 cent a kwatt for an s-2 turns it into a moneymaker.
  If you could beat that power subsidy the government may lower power to 1 penny a kwatt. watts.   so the s-2 is 1 watt per gh and at 1 cent a kwatt.

  your new magic miner needs to be 1 watt per 20gh  at 10 cents a kwatt to be clearly better then that subsidy.
lets say it is 20 x more efficient.   you need to compete price wise.  so if  the factory cost per th is 200 for a tube or an s-2.  you have to get your item to market fast and at no more then  300 a th.   cost to you

Finally you do all that you can't let anyone see the chip!!  why because someone will copy it an there goes your edge.

So good luck with all that.