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Author Topic: Is it possible to destroy Monero (XMR)?  (Read 10397 times)
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TheFascistMind
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September 09, 2014, 06:54:26 AM
Last edit: September 09, 2014, 07:19:23 AM by TheFascistMind
 #81

It doesn't matter if Paypal accepts Bitcoin because users who are not investors (e.g. especially females and the billions of impoverished) have no incentive to convert from their unit-of-account (dollars) to BTC just to pay for something. They might as well just fund their Paypal transactions with their credit card or bank account. Bitcoin will not become the unit-of-account without the blessing of the government, because it has no distribution scale.

Most of the impoverished don't have a credit card nor bank account.

The Paypal plan.

The reason Paypal couldn't just issue everyone in the developing world an account is because of jealousy thus legal and political risk. Governments would resist take over of their financial control by an overtly fascist corporation.

Peter Thiel et al are more clever.

Issue everyone a supranational digital account that is "decentralized and controlled by no one", when in fact it is centralized and controlled by the fascist powers-that-be.

Use this to force other countries into submission when they attempt to offer their own top-down centralized digital currencies, e.g. Ecuador.

The people are trapped either way in a fully traceable block chain and NWO Technocracy.

Monero (portmanteau of money+dying euro?) offers no hope of scaling to avert this rapidly developing fascist outcome.

C'est la vie. Fait accompli.

If anyone offers you a solution, I suggest you snap out of your aristocratic top-down thought process (see Charlie Munger's Lollapalooza Effect) and fund dozen(s) "let a thousands roses and thorns bloom" of bottom-up crypto-currency experiments in hopes of averting the outcome of the one who buried "for safety" his Lord provided stash in the Talents of the Parable (sic).

Quote from: Bible
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Quote from: Charlie Munger
Warren is one of the best learning machines on this earth. The turtles who outrun the hares are learning machines. If you stop learning in this world, the world rushes right by you. Warren was lucky that he could still learn effectively and build his skills, even after he reached retirement age. Warren's investing skills have markedly increased since he turned 65.

Munger notes this reality is "really crucial," because he suggests, "having watched the whole process with Warren, I can report that if he had stopped with what he knew at earlier points, the record would be a pale shadow of what it is."

Read more: http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/09/07/warren-buffetts-right-hand-man-reveals-his-secrets.aspx
rpietila (OP)
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September 09, 2014, 09:48:53 AM
 #82

I guess this is a project for people that made money by doing nothing very much in 2011.

It is possible that you are very right and this is a great insight. There is a kind of group that I feel connected to, consisting of people like aminorex, NewLiberty, (I don't want to add the names of not-so-public supporters), and people whom I know locally in Finland. The defining characteristics are that we are typically not old money, so the Bitcoin rally in 2010-2013 has changed our life, but we are also not nerds, just ordinary 30-50 yo adults who could invest a few thousand and not panic about it, resulting in that we still have hundreds if not thousands of BTC.

The willingness to change the world is a great motivation in us. Now Bitcoin has given new resources. Many have been searching for altcoins, but what's been offered did not interest us for a long time, as with a few exceptions, all altcoins have made terrible loss in their lifetime, and the high hopes of newcomers typically gone in vain. We have been able to see if there is no staying power, and invested only little, if anything, and watched the scene in sadness.

Then Monero comes and either analytically or intuitively sweeps our market niche with a promise of an anonymous coin, with potential to change the world, with an upright devteam and fair distribution. Knowing the mind of each other in our "group" (the "group" is just defined by being a set of people that think likewise) we rush to buy Monero, since the others will certainly do the same and of course we make money by doing it first Smiley My buying only really started in July when the 231 bottom was made. The previous months I was observing, very positive, but unwilling to commit.

This accumulation to long-term hoards has continued all this time, price has been very stable, and volume brisk. My predictions that our group's purchasing pressure overwhelms the inflation from mining have been unfounded, and likewise the doomsayers' predictions of lower and lower prices have not materialized. What has happened instead, is massive concentration of price in BTC0.004, which is the all-time-average, the current price, and the wedge closing point from the trends of higher lows and lower highs. Technically, it will soon break. Up or down, but with a massive move. Unless it stays in exactly BTC0.004 forever.

There are some true believers here, but you're right, some guys who made a load of paper wealth through nothing more than luck and good fortune hearing about bitcoin earlier than others do seem to think that their success was actually due to their above average investing abilities. A bit like taking investment advice from someone who won powerball jackpot lottery.

This is not really the way things happen in life. It is part luck (to be born in 1st world), but most part your choice to hang out with friends who follow tech. Then they tell you about Bitcoin. It is part luck (if you are minor and absolutely broke), but most part your choice to have money to invest and developed skills to understand it. It is part luck (if this is your first investment ever in something you don't understand) but most part your choice to throw money in fringe projects in carefully calculated small quantities, and then not worry about it.

It is no part luck if you were able to see Bitcoin was conquering the world in 2011. For most of us, it was about the choices that we had made in life that accumulated and made it much more probable to invest in 2011, and then hold through the days that took the price to half even twice the same day, and other things that the newbies don't know. My involvement in Bitcoin was certainly not luck, I take a methodical approach in investing and even in 2012, I lost $80,000 in several investments that went badly. Without investing into these stuff several times a year, I would not have invested into Bitcoin either.

Maybe somebody got in lucky, first buying, then losing the keys being thus unable to sell until now.

But my odds were stacked in 10,000:1 in my favor. And after that guy has sold, I still own them.


This is too important to not make 100% clear.
The devs need to do their job, they don't have time for the economy, and they are not competent in it (also whales often suck at coding, like me).

I for example am competent at both. You were just lucky that I had been too sick to code.

You also have 1 sigma higher IQ than me, it is not fair to use yourself as an example. Also I don't rejoice in your sickness.

Quote
Whales are the wealthy and well-connected businessmen that make things happen.
Your model of the hackerdom, crypto-currency, the knowledge age, the future, and investing in decentralized technology is fundamental flawed.

Precisely Bitcoin and Monero are rich boy clubs and this is why they are going no where. Bitcoin and Monero are driven by investors, not by users. They are investment pumps, not currencies. Perhaps all of the crypto-currencies to date have been investment pumps. Perhaps BBR and James are experimenting to create features and try to discover what will drive user adoption. I am not saying they will succeed, because I am not following their work.

I have outlined above what kind of sound, established, (moderately) wealthy, intellectually curious, people started to concentrate in Bitcoinworld in 2011 and who have now changed the big toe of their right foot to Monero with 1-5% of their capital, ready to give that leg more weight if Monero can take it. We believe the leadership is there and MEW is one initiative to create an actual, functioning, governance in a coin, based on the wishes of the owners.

As for hackerdom, I am not too much into it. I am building an economy that grows bigger and is able to absorb the imploding dollar economy as soon as possible. I admire the hackers similar way as engineers - if they create something that works, and does it elegantly.

Quote
Lazy capital that wants to smoke a cigar while instructing the busy-bee worker devs doesn't build a damn thing. Here follows my canonical references. Ignore them at your peril. This is will be my final warning. I am doing this as a service to you and to try to earn the donation you made to me. A true friend is one who speaks up when he thinks you are wrong.

It is only your lack of experience that you think I am not doing useful work.

Quote
Edit: I am reading the pulse of the community-at-large and I think you are Monero's worst enemy.

Once MEW gets up and running, we will have to select people to be the community public speakers. If the real opinion of the community is that I should limit speaking, I may do it. Voting does cost money, and requires that you own moneros, and that you are reputable. When these people decide somehing, I am very prone to listen. Currently obfuscation is the name of the game and all the trolling against Monero could have been bought by $500. MEW is really the answer to this.


Whales are the wealthy and well-connected businessmen that make things happen.

I'm embarrassed for you, do you realise how ridiculous that sounds coming after your recent XMR pump fest? What you should be saying is whales are the corrupt exploiters that have almost destroyed our planet and human civilisation.

By subscribing to a destructive ideology, yes. Those "whales" are a sad species, though. They are like "sheep-whales", led to slaughter by their puppet-masters. (Maybe I really need a new term, yes - ) my whales are dynamic, well-conncted humans, who know how things are handled in the outside world, cunning as a fox, innocent as a dove. The Leaders. The ones that anything, whatever it is, needs, to have any chance to succeed in this evil world that is quick to snuff all initiatives that threaten the status quo.

I have no idea what is XMR pump fest. Perhaps you can refer to some specific time in the market or anything..?

Quote
The greedy 1% that owns most of the world's wealth are the whales you speak of, but most people hate them with a passion.

I cannot make it untrue that 50% of monero are also owned by 1% of the people. There is no mechanism that would preserve people's liberty and produce a different wealth distribution.

What is the source of this hate? I am among every 1% that can be calculated. I have never in my life scammed anyone or done non-voluntary transactions, or any other crime against other people. Everything that I own I have earned in trade with other people, typically so that they come to me. Why do you hate me?

Also greed is that "you desire something greatly that others have" Of course sometimes I catch myself from this sin, but never has the object of the greed been money or anything that money can buy. How about your greed? You ever wished to have something that does not belong to you?

HIM TVA Dragon, AOK-GM, Emperor of the Earth, Creator of the World, King of Crypto Kingdom, Lord of Malla, AOD-GEN, SA-GEN5, Ministry of Plenty (Join NOW!), Professor of Economics and Theology, Ph.D, AM, Chairman, Treasurer, Founder, CEO, 3*MG-2, 82*OHK, NKP, WTF, FFF, etc(x3)
TheFascistMind
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September 09, 2014, 01:26:13 PM
Last edit: September 10, 2014, 10:45:59 AM by TheFascistMind
 #83

I feel I must reply, because I don't think you are getting my point. It is as if we are talking past each other. You keep repeating the reasons you like Monero, and I keep trying to explain that is irrelevant to my point.

I had written that you picking the winners in the market at a nascent stage reminds me of China's solar debacle. You are not even close enough to the technology to make such determinations.

I am building an economy that grows bigger and is able to absorb the imploding dollar economy as soon as possible.

The $trillions are not going into crypto-currency but rather since the peak of silver and gold in 2011, been shifting into real estate and stocks (mostly in the Five Eyes nations who allegedly made an unpublished central bank pact to raise interest rates and stop QE). Armstrong has explained why. It is about international capital flows and liquidity. Bitcoin (and certainly not Monero) will not have enough liquidity within the requisite 2 - 4 years until collapse.

It is only your lack of experience that you think I am not doing useful work.

There is no lack of experience (I know I haven't built investment companies as you have and I know it is not relevant to what I write below). I understand the utility of trying to pick solid efforts, then rallying capital and inertia towards them.

Nascent stage developing mass appeal software projects is precisely my area of maximum expertise. Applying your model of building investment companies to this arena is bizarre and mismatched to what makes the development and discovery process work. And I surmise that is why you are running into friction.

There is a scenario where you succeed with that strategy with Monero, and that is where nothing else sufficiently earth shattering comes along that renders it irrelevant and unable to compete. But even within that limited success you may attain, it is very, very unlikely that Monero as refined by a committee will ever do anything earth shattering. For example, the genesis of Firefox was a teenager Blake Ross. He revolutionized the entire internet browsing experience. He is humble and downplays his role, but you as an investor should not. It is difficult now to find an article that accurately describes the leadership role Ross played at the crucial early stage. I had read about this long ago. Now most of the information paints it as a collaboration between him and Hyatt (and later others). But the fact was Ross drove the idea. Hyatt was a Mozilla/Apple developer who had been around a long time (and he and I fought some about his XUL ideas, etc, also I fought with his comrade Ian Hickson who is the lead on HTML5).

Don't get me wrong. Engineering refinement is extremely important, and one guy can't do that by himself. But the design and idea generation that defines the revolution never comes from a committee; I can't think of one example where it has.

So my point to you is your model of discovery of the creative ideas and developer that will change the world is wrong. In order to find that you have to look for raw talent, unrelenting drive, and luck of the draw. You can't play if you expect it to be all so well structured and visible.

It is a game of chance. You have to play as you do those real-time games of chance that you regularly score higher than me on.

Monero is safe and secure, but probably limited upside. There are other chances you might neglect because you want to only roll the dice on that which you can see with top-down clarity.

And this forcing-to-have-the-answer is what is alienating the Monero investors from the community-at-large. Monero has not swept the anonymity feature. There are many competing efforts out there and more to come. And ring signatures is not the end-all and be-all of anonymity. Plus anonymity is not even sufficient by itself to make a big wave of adoption.

People are here because of the excitement of the unknown. They don't want some top-down castle government dictating what is possible and impossible in this world of exciting possibilities.

It is not your 1% they hate, it is the way you try to lock everything down in structured molasses and don't embrace the world of possibilities that makes them feel you don't deserve to keep that 1%. And I believe they are probably correct. But randomness will obfuscate the outcome.

I don't think people (well at least not me) are jealous of you having the insight to invest in Bitcoin and change your wealth status. We are watching you do what most people of new found wealth do. They change what made them successful (the creeping from risky to later assured investment in Bitcoin) and become married to safety and controlling (erroneously applying a confirmation bias thinking that all those investment companies they did before the Bitcoin investment where relevant). Your Cryptocrypt forum had like 400 members in 6 months and this Bitcointalk.org wildwest probably gets that many signups in one day. You can't shoehorn a free market into a top-down structure voting system of ranks of competencies. The communication overload makes it impossible to scale top-down organization out to creativity which is born in the small from the large population of chance. For example, I couldn't communicate all my ideas about crypto-currency to you even if I wanted to, much less trying to convince your investment board. I wouldn't even bother. Much better to drive adoptionally virally then much later you realize you missed out because you expected a Cathedral.

For example, why are you so harsh on BBR? It wouldn't hurt you one iota to send 0.1% of your capital towards his coin and boost his chances. More competition with Monero is better for you (makes your Monero devs less complacent and smug), and then you become a hero in the community rather than a villan. BBR's efforts are helping Monero since many of the source code commits get shared between the two efforts.

This arena is more like a wildwest Bazaar. Your (desire to reform it into a) Cathedral style is incompatible with the open source and creativity.

dga did not do the PoW work on Cryptonote for free. He made himself $150,000 for a week of work. He did not share his mining secrets.

As hard as you will try to avoid scammers, even your own group is profiting on your dependence on them. When you marry yourself to something, it can attract flies and also your "wives" can become complacent (and later demanding).

I heard you were ready to defend the Monero price with a stash. When I heard that I thought of how a couple that is headed for breakup, often try to make a baby first to double-down, e.g. Jason Hommel who is now a relative pauper after once had 200,000 oz of silver and $12 million in pink sheets mining companies.

I actually advised you to not buy the castle and I advised Hommel not to buy that $1 million mansion in 2007 and not to make the baby. He opted to double-down and have the sure outcome.

(I should talk about my own mistakes, but don't have time to explain and it would muddle this post)

you all are incompetent dweebs

If you were speaking to me, you are incorrect. I am competent.
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September 09, 2014, 01:29:34 PM
 #84

Show me a coin where the dev holds less than 1% of the coins in circulation.

If someone's gonna own 1%+, who'd be better to have it than the dev(s)?
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September 09, 2014, 01:45:40 PM
 #85

"I haven't been blessed. It was through my foresight that I saw bitcoin for how valuable it was. No man helped me along, and many discouraged me. " - Garret Burgwardt

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September 09, 2014, 02:09:08 PM
 #86

...

There are some true believers here, but you're right, some guys who made a load of paper wealth through nothing more than luck and good fortune hearing about bitcoin earlier than others do seem to think that their success was actually due to their above average investing abilities. A bit like taking investment advice from someone who won powerball jackpot lottery.


I've responded to this sort of ugliness before, but I'll do it again now because it's so offensive. Yes, there are probably a few people who bought hundreds or thousands of bitcoin on a whim in 2011, properly secured it, completely forgot about it, then came back years later, remember they had it, remembered their passwords/whatever, etc...

But most of the people who held (or bought) through the 2011 crash were different. They did the math on the potential bitcoin represented, and continued to hold a *very* unpopular position, and a 90% mark-to-market loss for many. That's really not easy at all. And contextualize yourself to the timeframe: the media was declaring bitcoin dead (yes, quite more strongly than now), it was almost embarassing to talk about in polite company, no reputable public figures, VCs, or tech people had come out with much support, and it wasn't *that* hard to think that the experiment was just that... Most of the "whim" people bailed. It took considerable vision (and risk-tolerance), backed by solid analysis, to hold or buy more.

But I guess if you hang around the alt-forum too long, you just auto-assume that everyone is a shallow-thinker making snap-decisions...

Sorry you see my opinion as 'ugly', I didn't mean to offend anyone. What I am saying is someone who looked at bitcoin in 2011 and invested 1-2 thousand dollars, and had sense to hodl doesn't automatically become an investment guru. Maybe some do have useful skills, but risking 1K USD is nothing to get too excited about.

In a sense, this is an old difference-of-opinion story. Smiley Sorry that you took his take personally, Melbustus, but kennyP has a global-level point. For the record, I've implicitly defended guys like you, even though I looked into Bitcoin in 2011 but got scared off by all those hacking stories (The scaredy point for me was keylogger malware; I got logic-trapped and was either too skeered - or too proud - to join Bitcointalk in '11 to ask for help. I didn't jump into altcoins until I got Raxco's PerfectGuard.)

As a (personal) result, I have no envy of you guys and surprisingly little regret. The way I see it: had I pursued that alternate course, I would have either been: a multi-millionaire; robbed; a theoretical 'multimillionaire' ensnarled in the Gox bankruptcy; or, someone who took the bird in the hand in '12 like so many others. There's really no way to tell that's not essentially mental masturbation. So: the way I see it, there's really no point in worrying, fantasizing or whatnot. What was done, was done and that's that. Might as well enjoy what you've got; you'll certainly have no complaints from me!

But to get back to kennyP's point: he's essentially saying that you and the other whales are specialists. The trouble with specialization is that there's an inevitable echo-chamber effect within the specialty; at a minimum, it shows up in 'expertitis': using jargon terms as if they were all defined in a basic high-school-level dictionary. No worries, in and of itself, but specialists who strike it 'lucky' [<--- pls note inverted commas] tend to yield to that ole debbil that lurks in all of us: namely, vanity. Many are the specialists who, after getting fortune and prominence, fancy themselves as experts in politics plus the entire field of which they're only a part. Case in point: Paul Krugman.

Had I taken that opposite course and had gotten 'lucky', I'd take that lottery-winner categorization as a cautionary tale. One of the open and sad secrets about the lottery is that the typical jackpot winner blows his or her wad in about five years. The reason why is important - and it does pertain to kennyP's point. Many of them fancy themselves to be skilled and shrewd businesspeople stuck in dead-end jobs. If they only had the bankroll, they'd become loaded and esteemed! The world would finally know their real selves!

So, they start up or buy a small business like a restaurant, bar, or whatnot and spend lavishly on it. And within five years...

Anyhoo: to get back to the point, all of Bill Gates' billions can't erase his social maladroitness [which to some extent I share.] All of Warren Buffet's billions can't change the fact that he's been flat-out wrong about Bitcoin. All the wealth that an old-style goldbug had shrewdly accumulated in the 1970s in no way prepared him for the 1980s, when gold collapsed and stocks (and bonds!) became the place to be. And...

If you need a little peace of mind, Melbustus, this might help: 'luck' is really a myth - a thought-sparing heuristic for people who have neither the time nor the inclination to get to the truth of the matter. We all use myths of this sort to one extent or another to get us by in our everyday lives, else we'd have no time to act! You can content yourself with the empirical fact that people prone to use the myth of 'luck' are preponderantly people who won't make much of themselves socio-economically. In an important sense, they've installed their own glass ceiling. 






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September 09, 2014, 02:16:06 PM
 #87

If you don't mind, what would you recommend as the best GUI Monero wallet for Windows 7 64-bit? I'm afraid I'm not technically adept, at least for now, and I'd deeply appreciate it if you could drop a link to a binary that you think would be best for the likes of me. Smiley

The best GUI for windows right now: https://github.com/Jojatekok/monero-client-net/blob/ac0eee4a78f78187ab844d258e2f19da7568b55b/binaries/x64.zip?raw=true
Tutorial how to use it: http://cryptonotepool.org.uk/MoneroClientguide.pdf
Smiley

Thanks a lot! Just downloaded both.






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rpietila (OP)
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September 09, 2014, 02:26:11 PM
 #88

Show me a coin where the dev holds less than 1% of the coins in circulation.

If someone's gonna own 1%+, who'd be better to have it than the dev(s)?

With the high regard that I have to some devs of some coins, in economic matters I trust much more those who have actual success to show in being shrewd with money - entrepreneurs, successful entrepreneurs, self-made men, the ones that have not succeeded by bootlicking governments, but who rather have a track record that governments have continued to attack them, closing their businesses, confiscating their assets, accused them in court on charges based on their own anti-competition laws, yet they have not lost heart, and still have an unwavering spirit to accompish what yet needs to be accomplished. The type Ayn Rand wrote about. The little that we must yield to central management of any kind, I would like to hand over to these men. If there are concentrations of private wealth in this world, I would sleep most happily if it is in the hands of these men.

HIM TVA Dragon, AOK-GM, Emperor of the Earth, Creator of the World, King of Crypto Kingdom, Lord of Malla, AOD-GEN, SA-GEN5, Ministry of Plenty (Join NOW!), Professor of Economics and Theology, Ph.D, AM, Chairman, Treasurer, Founder, CEO, 3*MG-2, 82*OHK, NKP, WTF, FFF, etc(x3)
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September 09, 2014, 02:34:16 PM
 #89

People are here because of the excitement of the unknown. They don't want some top-down castle government dictating what is possible and impossible in this world of exciting possibilities.

I feel that you are needlessly patronising me. I try to find a place to function to the best of my ability, and in this case a little bit of creating that place also. This way I am happiest, and most productive. Not all the world needs to embrace the result, and as you said - potentially it does not even scale such high. It does not mean it is wrong, or even waste of time.

If you feel that I have tried to control you against your wishes, I am sorry. Every help that I have offered has come from the blessing I have received by being in Bitcoin in the right time.

HIM TVA Dragon, AOK-GM, Emperor of the Earth, Creator of the World, King of Crypto Kingdom, Lord of Malla, AOD-GEN, SA-GEN5, Ministry of Plenty (Join NOW!), Professor of Economics and Theology, Ph.D, AM, Chairman, Treasurer, Founder, CEO, 3*MG-2, 82*OHK, NKP, WTF, FFF, etc(x3)
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September 09, 2014, 02:36:16 PM
Last edit: September 09, 2014, 02:49:53 PM by TheFascistMind
 #90

Show me a coin where the dev holds less than 1% of the coins in circulation.

If someone's gonna own 1%+, who'd be better to have it than the dev(s)?

With the high regard that I have to some devs of some coins, in economic matters I trust much more those who have actual success to show in being shrewd with money - entrepreneurs, successful entrepreneurs, self-made men, the ones that have not succeeded by bootlicking governments, but who rather have a track record that governments have continued to attack them, closing their businesses, confiscating their assets, accused them in court on charges based on their own anti-competition laws, yet they have not lost heart, and still have an unwavering spirit to accompish what yet needs to be accomplished. The type Ayn Rand wrote about. The little that we must yield to central management of any kind, I would like to hand over to these men. If there are concentrations of private wealth in this world, I would sleep most happily if it is in the hands of these men.

You continue the miss the point. Capital in your hands is useless in this arena because you can't develop what we need. That capital needs to be out chasing those who can develop it. Spreading it around more gets it moving and not buried in a useless vault.

erroneously applying a confirmation bias thinking that all those investment companies they did before the Bitcoin investment where relevant


People are here because of the excitement of the unknown. They don't want some top-down castle government dictating what is possible and impossible in this world of exciting possibilities.

I feel that you are needlessly patronising me. I try to find a place to function to the best of my ability, and in this case a little bit of creating that place also. This way I am happiest, and most productive. Not all the world needs to embrace the result, and as you said - potentially it does not even scale such high. It does not mean it is wrong, or even waste of time.

If you feel that I have tried to control you against your wishes, I am sorry. Every help that I have offered has come from the blessing I have received by being in Bitcoin in the right time.

You are not controlling me. I am trying to give you feedback on the question you asked in the OP.

I don't really have a problem with what ever you do. Only you can win or lose, it doesn't impact me what you are doing.

I am trying to explain that your confidence in your ability to select the winners and losers at the nascent stage of development is misplaced. You'd be better off with scattershot than concentration.

But alas, I have to let go....

...this is my last post. Seriously.

Good luck. We will be in touch in private communications in the future.
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September 09, 2014, 02:43:00 PM
 #91

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=3514 (Those who can’t build, talk— Eric Raymond, the creator of open source)

Thanks for the link. Again, we're seeing "History Repeating." Really, it comes with democratic capitalism. Both parts encourage people to think that they're stakeholders in anything they take an interest in, and they're typically not discouraged because  they're sized up (at a minimum) as potential customers or users.






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robinwilliams
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September 09, 2014, 02:50:52 PM
 #92

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=3514 (Those who can’t build, talk— Eric Raymond, the creator of open source)


"There are specific recurring kinds of errors in speculative writing about the Internet that we get exceedingly tired of seeing over and over again. One is blindness to problems of scale; another is handwaving about deployment costs; and a third is inability to notice when a proposed cooperative ‘solution’ is ruined by misalignment of incentives."

+954.  no idea what this has to do w crypto but soooo true

r u irritatingmint or just imprsonting him?  u do a good job if u are.  accuse castleman of being a warlord with knights ramming top down w monero then later saying something about yabbering democratic masses is the problem.  aren't those two opposite things?? Huh  Undecided  Roll Eyes

good to see you back  Kiss
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September 09, 2014, 03:23:57 PM
Last edit: September 09, 2014, 03:47:44 PM by sonoIO
 #93

I'm rather new in all this but i'm starting to see some patterns that i'll share here. My intention is not to offend anyone but i'll be honest and to the (my) point.

First i'll put supporters of different cryptocurrencies in two major groups
1. Old school investors, think of Wall Street investors as representatives
2. Little investors, that represent the ppl
And when you think about it these groups are naturally opposed, at least atm.

Will not comment the first group too much as i do now have experience in that, but whole CN concept (egalitarian mining and whatnot) is intended to serve second group. It is not surprising that original CN folks does not like the first group, and it should not be surprising that a lot of average Joes will have more sympathy for the second group. That is naturally because CN folks didn't invent second group, they just recognized it.

Another, and more dubious, point is the privacy oriented monetary platform does not mix with first group as well as with second group. Will not explain this, just think about it for a moment. One could stretch this so much to claim that first group and privacy for ppl is a oxymoron, but that is just a stretch.

And now something completely different, i personally liked XMR to the point when shilling and FUDing e.g. BBR surpassed my limit of a good taste. It may be the point when some e.g. DRK supporters switched to XMR, wouldn't know. And i do not claim that my good taste limit should be general, but my feeling is that XMR is going in to direction which looks like the reason why ppl were drown to cryprocurencies actually.

That are my 2 Sats

EDIT: At the average the first group is much more aggressive and thinks that clear winner is a must to see, yesterday. Second group is more inclined to idea to have something that works good, and consequentially like idea of few CN projects at this early stage as this will bring healthy competition and develop whole CN tech much faster. There are just basic differences of those two groups

EDIT2: I personally like the Darwinian process at work in CN, maybe even few projects will survive on different niches, which shouldn't be a problem if there is frictionless conversion between the coins, with SuperNet and OpenTransactions. And rpietila, I think you are correct person, do not take this post personally
rpietila (OP)
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September 09, 2014, 03:29:33 PM
 #94

I am also a business angel, funding people's things ever since 2004. One of the reasons I bought the castle is that people wanting to have funding can come there and make their way to my presence. After some time, I may discuss with them about financial cooperation. Such deals have already been done on these "castle terms" and results are expected to be announced in this month.

This is the way I want to make business and yes, many try to approach me via other channels and start communication by asking money, a loan or whatever. I try not to be rude towards them but the answer is "no", because there is no way for me to evaluate the other guy that way.

I am fine if you don't want to come to my castle but that is the necessary condition if you want to deal with me. Good thing is that world has millions of people with more money than me and you can ask them instead.

HIM TVA Dragon, AOK-GM, Emperor of the Earth, Creator of the World, King of Crypto Kingdom, Lord of Malla, AOD-GEN, SA-GEN5, Ministry of Plenty (Join NOW!), Professor of Economics and Theology, Ph.D, AM, Chairman, Treasurer, Founder, CEO, 3*MG-2, 82*OHK, NKP, WTF, FFF, etc(x3)
Marlo Stanfield
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September 09, 2014, 03:41:09 PM
 #95

Show me a coin where the dev holds less than 1% of the coins in circulation.

If someone's gonna own 1%+, who'd be better to have it than the dev(s)?

Exactly. And why wouldn't you want the devs to have sufficient financial motivation to continue their hard work? This is a very odd idea and goes against capitalistic principles in my opinion.

Not to mention there are coins other than Monero that the devs own less than 1%. That's a fact. In fact it's often been a problem with coins that devs not having sufficient stake in their own currency often need to focus on other things in their life in order to make a living and pay their bills.
othe
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September 09, 2014, 03:54:37 PM
 #96

Quote
Will not comment the first group too much as i do now have experience in that, but whole CN concept (egalitarian mining and whatnot) is intended to serve second group. It is not surprising that original CN folks does not like the first group, and it should not be surprising that a lot of average Joes will have more sympathy for the second group. That is naturally because CN folks didn't invent second group, they just recognized it.

That why they premine 80+ % and cripple the PoW, because they believe in egalitarian mining?


Quote
Another, and more dubious, point is the privacy oriented monetary platform does not mix with first group as well as with second group. Will not explain this, just think about it for a moment. One could stretch this so much to claim that first group and privacy for ppl is a oxymoron, but that is just a stretch.

That is again absolute non sense, every big company wants to move money around anonymously and so do investors.


Quote
And now something completely different, i personally liked XMR to the point when shilling and FUDing e.g. BBR surpassed my limit of a good taste. It may be the point when some e.g. DRK supporters switched to XMR, wouldn't know. And i do not claim that my good taste limit should be general, but my feeling is that XMR is going in to direction which looks like the reason why ppl were drown to cryprocurencies actually.

I am not sure what you talk about here, it´s pretty obvious that the other side is in no way better. XMR is by far the the CN coins which gets attacked the most without a concrete reason.

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September 09, 2014, 04:22:44 PM
 #97

Bitcoin is the tech that allows a knew form of "government" in a decentralized way, an new kind of society and life. For most it will be better, for some, eg a large percentage of government "workers" they will be looking for new streams of income, as their host just found a way to be immune to much of their parasitic nature

Now that you mention it...that's a good idea for a sneaky kind of evangelism to the bureaucrats. "Join the Wild Wild West in the safety and comfort of your own home! Live a little! Feel the excitement and peril! Learn what you can while having a Wild West blast! And PROFIT!"






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September 09, 2014, 05:28:15 PM
 #98


Okay, Mr Random, you're right about the coin market cap.

In saying that, I'm not sure how much XMR is being introduced daily by miners. the last time I bought some it was quite a bit cheaper, and i sold it at about 10% profit.

I find the figures quite staggering at Poloniex, but it seems to be dropping off a bit. So we either watch it decline or burst back. XMR does not strike me as a coin to just muddle along at average price.



Some of this has been discussed by Monero "enthusiasts".  One very possible reason for the lack of a "takeoff" is the fast emission.  One thought is if the devs can get the core functionality done in time:

-database overhaul
-code rewrite (clean up C mess etc.)
-harden code
-gui
-etc

the declining emission rate will slingshot the price up quite a bit.
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September 09, 2014, 05:32:01 PM
 #99


Okay, Mr Random, you're right about the coin market cap.

In saying that, I'm not sure how much XMR is being introduced daily by miners. the last time I bought some it was quite a bit cheaper, and i sold it at about 10% profit.

I find the figures quite staggering at Poloniex, but it seems to be dropping off a bit. So we either watch it decline or burst back. XMR does not strike me as a coin to just muddle along at average price.



Some of this has been discussed by Monero "enthusiasts".  One very possible reason for the lack of a "takeoff" is the fast emission.  One thought is if the devs can get the core functionality done in time:

-database overhaul
-code rewrite (clean up C mess etc.)
-harden code
-gui
-etc

the declining emission rate will slingshot the price up quite a bit.

What is the "in time" mean?  Are there any estimates / timeline goals for any or each of these things?
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September 09, 2014, 06:16:43 PM
 #100


Okay, Mr Random, you're right about the coin market cap.

In saying that, I'm not sure how much XMR is being introduced daily by miners. the last time I bought some it was quite a bit cheaper, and i sold it at about 10% profit.

I find the figures quite staggering at Poloniex, but it seems to be dropping off a bit. So we either watch it decline or burst back. XMR does not strike me as a coin to just muddle along at average price.



Some of this has been discussed by Monero "enthusiasts".  One very possible reason for the lack of a "takeoff" is the fast emission.  One thought is if the devs can get the core functionality done in time:

-database overhaul
-code rewrite (clean up C mess etc.)
-harden code
-gui
-etc

the declining emission rate will slingshot the price up quite a bit.

What is the "in time" mean?  Are there any estimates / timeline goals for any or each of these things?

The database overhaul is required because the blockchain size is starting to be too large for older computers. I don't know thew exact amount of memory required, but my Windows box with 8GB of RAM had problems loading the blockchain over a month ago. I had to close all other apps in order to succeed.

The database size will eventually be too large for Windows with 8GB RAM (possibly Macs also). If that happens, new users with those specs will not adopt and current users may look for something else.
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