What spells the end

[dnydublin12]

Hi,

I want bitcoin to succeed and very much hope it does, so please don't read this message as bitcoin bashing post, not intended that way. The fact that we're all reading and posting on this forum probably indicates our positive interest in Bitcoin specifically. But just thinking negatively with our black hats on, what could spell the end for bitcoin

1. 50.1% attack - where someone gets enough computing power to out pace a little over half the current hashing capability and invalidates the chain. Probably only feasible for large companies/banks/governments whose interests might be threatened by bitcoin.

2. Government regulation - if the US & EU legislated against holding or dealing with bitcoin, or started seizing wallets. Bitcoin could flee to other jurisdictions, but it certainly could significantly affect its adoption if none of the large multinational companies would accept payment in bitcoin.

3. Unknown bugs - Some flaw in the algorithm that we don't yet know about

4. Better competitor crypto currency with some technical advantage, like speed - Could ethereum replace bitcoin?

Any others that people can think of? and which do you think most likely if any?

Again, not meaning to be negative so please don't be offended,

Thanks

[BitCoinDream]

Hi,

I want bitcoin to succeed and very much hope it does, so please don't read this message as bitcoin bashing post, not intended that way. The fact that we're all reading and posting on this forum probably indicates our positive interest in Bitcoin specifically. But just thinking negatively with our black hats on, what could spell the end for bitcoin

1. 50.1% attack - where someone gets enough computing power to out pace a little over half the current hashing capability and invalidates the chain. Probably only feasible for large companies/banks/governments whose interests might be threatened by bitcoin.

2. Government regulation - if the US & EU legislated against holding or dealing with bitcoin, or started seizing wallets. Bitcoin could flee to other jurisdictions, but it certainly could significantly affect its adoption if none of the large multinational companies would accept payment in bitcoin.

3. Unknown bugs - Some flaw in the algorithm that we don't yet know about

4. Better competitor crypto currency with some technical advantage, like speed - Could ethereum replace bitcoin?

Any others that people can think of? and which do you think most likely if any?

Again, not meaning to be negative so please don't be offended,

Thanks

Just like FIAT has not been challenged by another FIAT, Bitcoin wont be challenged by another Bitcoin. If it is challenged, then it has to be something innovative, disruptive... that has not been thought after as of yet.

[giveBTCpls]

Hi,

I want bitcoin to succeed and very much hope it does, so please don't read this message as bitcoin bashing post, not intended that way. The fact that we're all reading and posting on this forum probably indicates our positive interest in Bitcoin specifically. But just thinking negatively with our black hats on, what could spell the end for bitcoin

1. 50.1% attack - where someone gets enough computing power to out pace a little over half the current hashing capability and invalidates the chain. Probably only feasible for large companies/banks/governments whose interests might be threatened by bitcoin.

2. Government regulation - if the US & EU legislated against holding or dealing with bitcoin, or started seizing wallets. Bitcoin could flee to other jurisdictions, but it certainly could significantly affect its adoption if none of the large multinational companies would accept payment in bitcoin.

3. Unknown bugs - Some flaw in the algorithm that we don't yet know about

4. Better competitor crypto currency with some technical advantage, like speed - Could ethereum replace bitcoin?

Any others that people can think of? and which do you think most likely if any?

Again, not meaning to be negative so please don't be offended,

Thanks

Just like FIAT has not been challenged by another FIAT, Bitcoin wont be challenged by another Bitcoin. If it is challenged, then it has to be something innovative, disruptive... that has not been thought after as of yet.

Well, I reckon USD and EUR will get challenged by asian money (JEN and CNY) in the future, this will be the leading FIAT, and BTC will be huge along with metals. But no, no other crypto is replacing Bitcoin, no fucking way lol.

[Meuh6879]

1) In practice ? Impossible ... not profitable at all.

2) They try, they fail ... like usual, not new.

3) Ah Ah Ah ...   dude, we have been go to the moon with maths (simple math, not cryptography).

4) Big EPIC FAIL

[BitCoinDream]

Hi,

I want bitcoin to succeed and very much hope it does, so please don't read this message as bitcoin bashing post, not intended that way. The fact that we're all reading and posting on this forum probably indicates our positive interest in Bitcoin specifically. But just thinking negatively with our black hats on, what could spell the end for bitcoin

1. 50.1% attack - where someone gets enough computing power to out pace a little over half the current hashing capability and invalidates the chain. Probably only feasible for large companies/banks/governments whose interests might be threatened by bitcoin.

2. Government regulation - if the US & EU legislated against holding or dealing with bitcoin, or started seizing wallets. Bitcoin could flee to other jurisdictions, but it certainly could significantly affect its adoption if none of the large multinational companies would accept payment in bitcoin.

3. Unknown bugs - Some flaw in the algorithm that we don't yet know about

4. Better competitor crypto currency with some technical advantage, like speed - Could ethereum replace bitcoin?

Any others that people can think of? and which do you think most likely if any?

Again, not meaning to be negative so please don't be offended,

Thanks

Just like FIAT has not been challenged by another FIAT, Bitcoin wont be challenged by another Bitcoin. If it is challenged, then it has to be something innovative, disruptive... that has not been thought after as of yet.

Well, I reckon USD and EUR will get challenged by asian money (JEN and CNY) in the future, this will be the leading FIAT, and BTC will be huge along with metals. But no, no other crypto is replacing Bitcoin, no fucking way lol.

Well... that's kinda true. With the formation of BRICS Development Bank, this is highly possible IMO.

[dnydublin12]

1) In practice ? Impossible ... not profitable at all.

Doesn't need to be profitable. Eliminate a competitive threat and then continue your business as before.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-01/visa-profit-beats-estimates-as-consumer-card-spending-increases.html

2) They try, they fail ... like usual, not new.

They haven't outlawed trading bitcoin yet have they?

3) Ah Ah Ah ...   dude, we have been go to the moon with maths (simple math, not cryptography).

Its still beta software. There are bugs, to assume there are not, would be naive.

4) Big EPIC FAIL

Fair enough   ... but maybe not a particular coin, but a superior system of some sort, like napster begat bittorrent

[oceans]

Some of the things you state could happen I will not deny like the attack and also unknown bugs, these are things that will always be a possible problem. As for government regulation I believe they will try and will fail over and over but it will never stop them trying.

[Brewins]

4 - Better tech does not means they will win. There are already some huge amount invested in the BTC network, and too much acceptance, to undo it the cost will be very high, I guess way more than people are willing to pay 

[mightymouse4ever]

4. Better competitor crypto currency with some technical advantage, like speed - Could ethereum replace bitcoin?

Personally if I invented a coin that was better than bitcoin.  The first thing I would do would be to mine 12 million and offer them to bitcoin owners on a like for like basis.

[cambda]

Maybe if transactions (thus fees) do not increase or Bitcoin price dont go up when the block rewards becomes very small. It could mean poorly protected coin, and 51% attacked like some altcoins already

[Vod]

What spells the end for bitcoin?

Attacks on the power system.

[p2pbucks]

Better competitor crypto currency is the most likely reason of bitcoin‘s failure .
Hope Bitcoin protocol could evolve more faster than now .
If a new competitor defeats  bitcoin, i doubt the main beneficiaries would be the same group of guys 

[bbit]

People not spending BTC  is what I'm going with.

[dnydublin12]

People not spending BTC  is what I'm going with.

That's an interesting one. You mean everyone just sitting on their coins, meaning there is no circulation and it ceases to operate as currency, which in turn causes it's value to decrease. Hadn't thought of that one, but it is a definite possibility, thanks.

[dnydublin12]

Better competitor crypto currency is the most likely reason of bitcoin‘s failure .
Hope Bitcoin protocol could evolve more faster than now .
If a new competitor defeats  bitcoin, i doubt the main beneficiaries would be the same group of guys 

Definitely if there was a successful competitor, the beneficiaries woudl be a different set of people. They might even be a much wider set of people, which itself would be a competitive advantage. Thanks p2pbucks

[Brangdon]

I'd go for a combination of (1) and (4). Not so much a 51% attack as implicit agreements between dominant miners making transaction fees high as the block-reward halves. Meanwhile competitor PoS coins offer very low fees because they don't have to pay for monster hashing rigs. High fees discourage Bitcoin use and make users flee to other non-PoW coins. Fewer transactions further reduce the income to miners. Lack of demand reduces the BTC price. It's a downward spiral. Miners give up, the network hash power drops, and the network becomes less secure, making users even less want to trust it. Eventually someone mounts a proper 51% for laughs and to be able to say that they were the ones who destroyed Bitcoin. The end.

I'm not sure if what we are seeing now is the start of this. The block reward remains high, and fees are relatively low. However, the high block reward means that Bitcoin inflation is running at around 10%/year. That's part of what is depressing the price: all those miners selling. It makes Bitcoin a terrible store of value - you'd be better off holding dollars (2% inflation). Perhaps more importantly, the writing is on the wall. Despite being ridiculed, PoS have been running for a long time now with no core security issues, so they have proved themselves a viable alternative. Anyone doing due diligence into the state of crypto-currencies today will realise the above scenario is at least possible, if not likely. Perhaps that's why no-one is rescuing the BTC price.

[dnydublin12]

I'd go for a combination of (1) and (4). Not so much a 51% attack as implicit agreements between dominant miners making transaction fees high as the block-reward halves. Meanwhile competitor PoS coins offer very low fees because they don't have to pay for monster hashing rigs. High fees discourage Bitcoin use and make users flee to other non-PoW coins. Fewer transactions further reduce the income to miners. Lack of demand reduces the BTC price. It's a downward spiral. Miners give up, the network hash power drops, and the network becomes less secure, making users even less want to trust it. Eventually someone mounts a proper 51% for laughs and to be able to say that they were the ones who destroyed Bitcoin. The end.

Very interesting thoughts, thanks for taking the time to express. Definitely feasible I think, especially when combined with "People not spending BTC" and the resultant apathy/loss of interest exaserbated by a falling price.

I'm not sure if what we are seeing now is the start of this. The block reward remains high, and fees are relatively low. However, the high block reward means that Bitcoin inflation is running at around 10%/year. That's part of what is depressing the price: all those miners selling. It makes Bitcoin a terrible store of value - you'd be better off holding dollars (2% inflation). Perhaps more importantly, the writing is on the wall. Despite being ridiculed, PoS have been running for a long time now with no core security issues, so they have proved themselves a viable alternative. Anyone doing due diligence into the state of crypto-currencies today will realise the above scenario is at least possible, if not likely. Perhaps that's why no-one is rescuing the BTC price.

Interesting article here on PoS system downsides.

"However, proof of stake, as implemented in nearly every currency so far, has one fundamental flaw: as one prominent Bitcoin developer put it, “there’s nothing at stake”."

https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/01/15/slasher-a-punitive-proof-of-stake-algorithm/

Must admit I didn't understand all of it but!!!! I get the general gist I think. Do you think Ethereum could be the PoS system that suceeds?

[Jerome?]

Maybe if bitcoin falls below $200, I will be very worried.

[Brangdon]

"However, proof of stake, as implemented in nearly every currency so far, has one fundamental flaw: as one prominent Bitcoin developer put it, “there’s nothing at stake”."

It turns out that isn't a problem.

Do you think Ethereum could be the PoS system that suceeds?

I don't know much about Ethereum, but I believe it is not currently planned to be PoS. Generally, about half the top-10 coins are PoS; isn't that success?

[dnydublin12]

"However, proof of stake, as implemented in nearly every currency so far, has one fundamental flaw: as one prominent Bitcoin developer put it, “there’s nothing at stake”."

It turns out that isn't a problem.

Do you think Ethereum could be the PoS system that suceeds?

I don't know much about Ethereum, but I believe it is not currently planned to be PoS. Generally, about half the top-10 coins are PoS; isn't that success?

Absolutely, didnt mean to imply PoS wasn't a success.

Just googling Ethereum PoS PoW, I think you might be right. They might be a hybrid proof of work system, with elements of Pos design to avoid the centralisation problem.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/23k1kg/why_did_ethereum_choose_to_use_proof_of_work_as/