how much are fiat transfers (debt card vs credit card)? is btc really cheaper??

[Impros88]

One of the main reasons I though bitcoin will grow is that actually you pay to send money, you pay to pay via credit card or bancomat. But what if those payments get totally free? that would be a simple way banks would use to defend against bitcoin. They have a lot of other ways to make money, lending money, investing and such.

[rumpey]

I doubt the banks could afford to do that. They make a fortune from credit card fees, but lose a lot from credit card fraud. The fees help offset the cost of the fraud.

[johncarpe64]

The consumer does not actually pay money directly to transfer money from the consumer to the merchant via credit cards, it is the merchant that pays (the consumer pays via higher overall prices at the merchant).

It would be unrealistic for credit card processors to not charge merchants anything because they are providing a service to the merchant and are taking (and managing) certain risks to process these payments. It is very similar to paying TX fees to miners except that there are more intermediaries that need to get paid.  

[Impros88]

actually since 2013 in UE fees are 0,2 for debit card and 0 3 for credit card, this is the new order. Very low if you consider that before could reach 2%. That does not go in the direction of bitcoin...

[boraf]

One of the main reasons I though bitcoin will grow is that actually you pay to send money, you pay to pay via credit card or bancomat. But what if those payments get totally free? that would be a simple way banks would use to defend against bitcoin. They have a lot of other ways to make money, lending money, investing and such.

Consumers only use credit card for small transaction.

For business and large transaction, wire and tt fee are very low. Even lower than bitcoin if you factor in bitcion/fiat conversation rate.

[jaberwock]

What happens is that there will be no credit card companies.

They are far from being free to keep running, plus the frauds and consumers that won't pay the credit bill etc...

[Impros88]

One of the main reasons I though bitcoin will grow is that actually you pay to send money, you pay to pay via credit card or bancomat. But what if those payments get totally free? that would be a simple way banks would use to defend against bitcoin. They have a lot of other ways to make money, lending money, investing and such.

Consumers only use credit card for small transaction.

For business and large transaction, wire and tt fee are very low. Even lower than bitcoin if you factor in bitcion/fiat conversation rate.

why should people use bitcoin?

[H.W.Z]

It is impossible. It means the banks get nothing from offering credit card. And the credit card companies are out of business. The better solution is to lower the transaction fee to compete with BTC before  realizing they are losing customers to BTC.

[evanito]

If fiat transfers became free, the public would be far more skeptical of Bitcoin. "Why should I switch when Im happy with what I have?"

[lyth0s]

CC fees cannot go to zero because they need those fees to cover fraud, cover people not paying their bills and cover the cost of running their network and adding improvements to their network infrastructure. Fiat transfers are way more expensive than Bitcoin, even with wire transfers I'm charged $15 for accepting one, bitcoin fee is just $0.06 even if 800 billion dollars are sent (hopefully not a lot of outputs).

More importantly though is that fiat is printed (paper and electronically) everyday, making the dollar less valuable everyday. When I think that 3600 coins are currently made a day I cringed, then when I think about 2.7 BILLION dollars coming into existence every day I immediately see why fiat will fail.

[Impros88]

CC fees cannot go to zero because they need those fees to cover fraud, cover people not paying their bills and cover the cost of running their network and adding improvements to their network infrastructure. Fiat transfers are way more expensive than Bitcoin, even with wire transfers I'm charged $15 for accepting one, bitcoin fee is just $0.06 even if 800 billion dollars are sent (hopefully not a lot of outputs).

More importantly though is that fiat is printed (paper and electronically) everyday, making the dollar less valuable everyday. When I think that 3600 coins are currently made a day I cringed, then when I think about 2.7 BILLION dollars coming into existence every day I immediately see why fiat will fail.

Fiat won't necessarly fail. It has survived for thousands year and could do. Inflation is not so high to make problems. In reality it pushes people to invest their money rather than holding and this is safe for economy, which lies in moving money and buying things. Then if you consider the interests you get from keeping your fiat money invested in some secure ways (there are many oltions) you will see that interests cover inflation and overcome it. My parents for example have a lot of money invested since many years ago and have not lost for inflation.

[murraypaul]

Fiat transfers are way more expensive than Bitcoin, even with wire transfers I'm charged $15 for accepting one, bitcoin fee is just $0.06 even if 800 billion dollars are sent (hopefully not a lot of outputs).

The US banking system seems much less advanced than the European one, at least on the retail level.
I've paid 4 figure amounts by bank transfer in the UK, with no charge, and with the payment arriving within two hours. (In practice, much faster than that.)

[Bitcoinpro]

One of the main reasons I though bitcoin will grow is that actually you pay to send money, you pay to pay via credit card or bancomat. But what if those payments get totally free? that would be a simple way banks would use to defend against bitcoin. They have a lot of other ways to make money, lending money, investing and such.

Consumers only use credit card for small transaction.

For business and large transaction, wire and tt fee are very low. Even lower than bitcoin if you factor in bitcion/fiat conversation rate.

why should people use bitcoin?

probably better to start a new thread instead of changing the topic

[Bitcoinpro]

Fiat transfers are way more expensive than Bitcoin, even with wire transfers I'm charged $15 for accepting one, bitcoin fee is just $0.06 even if 800 billion dollars are sent (hopefully not a lot of outputs).

The US banking system seems much less advanced than the European one, at least on the retail level.
I've paid 4 figure amounts by bank transfer in the UK, with no charge, and with the payment arriving within two hours. (In practice, much faster than that.)

are you talking about an international bank wire transfer, their is no way the banking system can compete with cryptocurrency's

[keithers]

The consumer does not actually pay money directly to transfer money from the consumer to the merchant via credit cards, it is the merchant that pays (the consumer pays via higher overall prices at the merchant).

It would be unrealistic for credit card processors to not charge merchants anything because they are providing a service to the merchant and are taking (and managing) certain risks to process these payments. It is very similar to paying TX fees to miners except that there are more intermediaries that need to get paid.  

 A lot of merchants have begun carrying some of those costs over to the consumer.   For example, many liquor or convenience stores charge a small fee to use a debit/credit card.  Additionally many gas stations have a completely different price for gas if you are paying with a credit/debit card instead of cash. 

That is a really interesting idea though, if credit card companies reduced their transaction fees to compete with BTC.  Ultimately, that would be better for the general public.

[murraypaul]

That is a really interesting idea though, if credit card companies reduced their transaction fees to compete with BTC.  Ultimately, that would be better for the general public.

The credit card companies are providing more service for their fee though.
Buying by credit card provides consumer protection via chargebacks, protection if the merchant vanishes or goes bust, and others, like additional insurance.
(Plus of course the credit card company is providing you with credit, and provided you pay your bill in time, interest-free credit at that.)
A better comparison to Bitcoin transaction fees would be when paying by debit card, when you don't get those additional services.

[leannemckim46]

The consumer does not actually pay money directly to transfer money from the consumer to the merchant via credit cards, it is the merchant that pays (the consumer pays via higher overall prices at the merchant).

It would be unrealistic for credit card processors to not charge merchants anything because they are providing a service to the merchant and are taking (and managing) certain risks to process these payments. It is very similar to paying TX fees to miners except that there are more intermediaries that need to get paid.  

 A lot of merchants have begun carrying some of those costs over to the consumer.   For example, many liquor or convenience stores charge a small fee to use a debit/credit card.  Additionally many gas stations have a completely different price for gas if you are paying with a credit/debit card instead of cash. 

That is a really interesting idea though, if credit card companies reduced their transaction fees to compete with BTC.  Ultimately, that would be better for the general public.

There are too many middlemen involved for credit card payments to be able to be able to compete with bitcoin on a cost level. When a company signs up for credit card processing they are likely contracting with an affiliate who is working on behalf of a merchant services company who will send the transaction to Visa, who will get the money from the issuing bank. All of these people/companies need to get paid if they are to continue to offer their services.

[Soros Shorts]

One of the main reasons I though bitcoin will grow is that actually you pay to send money, you pay to pay via credit card or bancomat. But what if those payments get totally free? that would be a simple way banks would use to defend against bitcoin. They have a lot of other ways to make money, lending money, investing and such.

For me, the banks would also need to make international wire transfers free. They should also not ask me what the transferred money will be used for, and don't make any attempts to block it.

[leannemckim46]

One of the main reasons I though bitcoin will grow is that actually you pay to send money, you pay to pay via credit card or bancomat. But what if those payments get totally free? that would be a simple way banks would use to defend against bitcoin. They have a lot of other ways to make money, lending money, investing and such.

For me, the banks would also need to make international wire transfers free. They should also not ask me what the transferred money will be used for, and don't make any attempts to block it.

This would never happen because banks are required to follow AML laws that make it necessary to ask these kinds of questions. If they openly neglect to ask this information they will be put out of business.

[counter]

If there were no fees to send money you can assume the customer would be charged the same amount in one form or fashion.  Companies and governments are run like business and they know how to charge people in many different ways to make a profit.