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Author Topic: satoshin@gmx.com is compromised  (Read 151071 times)
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September 11, 2014, 11:54:24 AM
 #681

I think that we should just leave satoshi alone. He doesn't need to be unmasked

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September 11, 2014, 12:18:18 PM
 #682

I think that we should just leave satoshi alone. He doesn't need to be unmasked

Bravo

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September 11, 2014, 12:48:35 PM
 #683

Mind blown - http://www.weidai.com/bmoney.txt

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September 11, 2014, 12:52:20 PM
 #684

I think that we should just leave satoshi alone. He doesn't need to be unmasked

Yup at least he can walk around without being hounded.  Imagine if he was known he would have people chasing him and would thenn need to hire security.
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September 11, 2014, 01:22:57 PM
 #685



Theory: Hal Finney was Satoshi Nakamoto
I wonder if Hal Finney created a false name account, and sent the first bitcoin transaction to himself,
as though it came from satoshi nakamoto(his neighbor in Temple City, California, a town of just over 30,000 people) .

'Strange', how this email address became compromised soon after Hal Finney died.
Maybe someone found Hals secrete satoshi email address password? (u know, after he died)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=769004

That totally crossed my mind as well.  And what better way to help pay for your ice locker than with a bunch of BTC ;-)

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September 11, 2014, 01:24:12 PM
 #686



Theory: Hal Finney was Satoshi Nakamoto
I wonder if Hal Finney created a false name account, and sent the first bitcoin transaction to himself,
as though it came from satoshi nakamoto(his neighbor in Temple City, California, a town of just over 30,000 people) .

'Strange', how this email address became compromised soon after Hal Finney died.
Maybe someone found Hals secrete satoshi email address password? (u know, after he died)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=769004

That totally crossed my mind as well.  And what better way to help pay for your ice locker than with a bunch of BTC ;-)

He admitted to spending Bitcoins on that (he just claims it was all of them)
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September 11, 2014, 01:34:47 PM
 #687


If you think that is good, read Nick's post on Bitgold in 2008, not long before Bitcoin came out.  http://unenumerated.blogspot.kr/2005/12/bit-gold.html

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September 11, 2014, 03:36:12 PM
 #688

^Nick actually changed the date and post dated that BitGold article to make it look like it was posted in 2008 a couple of months after the white paper. The url still says 2005 as you can see in the link you posted. This is also confirmed in emails from Hal Finney.

To me, that's not very good evidence. Why would he post-date it solely to throw people off if you can see the real date in the URL?
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September 11, 2014, 04:15:46 PM
Last edit: September 11, 2014, 04:26:51 PM by traincarswreck
 #689

Quote
I think that we should just leave satoshi alone. He doesn't need to be unmasked

Yup at least he can walk around without being hounded.  Imagine if he was known he would have people chasing him and would thenn need to hire security.
I think we are falling for the media hype.  It seems clear to me that there is no one really looking for Satoshi in this fashion.  We have been given the impression Satoshi is not in plain site.  Some punk kid gave us the feeling Satoshi is negotiating to KEEP their freedom.  But that's not really what's happening I think.  The media has given us the wrong impression, Satoshi I think is not hidden at all.

Quote
Theory: Hal Finney was Satoshi Nakamoto
I wonder if Hal Finney created a false name account, and sent the first bitcoin transaction to himself,
Maybe, it might be though that "Satoshi" really did need someone to help them "setup" their realization.  The network needed a 2nd person to be worth a non-zero amount and Finney may have just had fortunate timing and perfect expertise. It may be that Satoshi felt exactly this way:

Quote
"I am speaking about a research project that is not fully complete since I have not yet written up and submitted for publication any paper or papers describing the work. Also the details of what axioms to use and how to select the basic set theory underlying the hierarchical extension to be constructed are not fully crystallized. I have also a great fear of possible error in studying topics in this area. It is not rare, historically, for systems to be proposed that are either inconsistent or that have unexpected weaknesses. So I feel that I must be cautious and proceed without rushing to a goal. And this psychology of fear has also inhibited me from consulting other persons expert in logic before I could feel that I had gotten my own ideas into good shape."


Quote
If you think that is good, read Nick's post on Bitgold in 2008, not long before Bitcoin came out.
Yes bitgold is very interesting and "suspicious".  If you like that you might like "ideal money" that reads like a bitcoin manifesto http://unenumerated.blogspot.ca/2005/12/bit-gold.html

http://sites.stat.psu.edu/~babu/nash/money.pdf

On of the reasons I think "unmasking" Satoshi isn't such a real thing is because all of this is in such plain sight. I think much of the upper elite bitcoin community believe's Satoshi anonymity needs the utmost security, however, I think they are mistaken and misunderstand.  The general community is also still functioning of confusion and misunderstanding.

A man said this would happen, he traveled to Iceland, all throughout Europe,  Asia, Greece, China, Italy pretty much ever significant country in the world quietly calmly stating there is going to be a "money" revolution, where the "money printing" governments are going to lose their power to the citizens.  

He alludes to and describes the history of money in 14 or so different versions of "ideal money", and talks about possibly new "future" currencies, that will cause the people to begin to start learning about and evaluating money based on their quality and stability in terms of its money printing schedule.

Nash calls for an evaluation of a basket of commodity prices, and no one seems to understand what that means. However, Nick Szabo's blog, a large portion of it (maybe 10 papers +supporting links), is an EXTENSIVE overview, history, and review, of all significant commodities and indicating factors when it comes to the prices of our markets.  Who does this and why?

Szabo has EXTENSIVELY studied and written about commodities and their relation to currency.  I must say again if you have read this man's blog, then you know its perfectly the instruction set and explanation of the creation of bitcoin.  

Here's milton friedman on monetary policy:
Quote
… Suppose the federal reserve said it was going to increase the quantity of money 4% every year week after week month after month… that would be a truly mechanical project. You could program a computer to do that…what you want to do is if possible is to have a mechanical system. If there was any virtue to the gold standard it was that virtue. Maybe you could create the same thing now…I would if I had my choice, freeze the amount of high powered money…and hold it as a constant. And have it as sort of a natural constant like gravity or something.

This is the thinking that Austrian economics and the like have bred.  Something Nash is quite interested in:
Quote
"After consulting with some of the economics faculty at Princeton, I learned of the work and publications of Friedrich von Hayek.  I must say that my thinking is apparently quite parallel to his thinking in relaiton to money and particularly with regard to the non-typical viewpoint in relation to the functions of the authorities which in recent times have been the sources of currencies
."

Sources of currencies...not many people 10 or 20 years ago were talking as if there was a different option for "source" of money I would think.  Here's Szabo on Hayek:
Quote
"Austrian economists like Hayek usually eschewed the use of traditional mathematics to describe the economy because such use assumes that economic complexities can be reduced to a small number of axioms."

"As Friedrich Hayek pointed out, our mutual inability to understand a very high fraction of what others know has profound implications for our economic and political institutions. "

Szabo has some key papers based on Hayek and the role he played in "Szabo" understanding of the history of economics. Nash suggests Ideal money could come about if:

Quote
"We of Terra could be taught how to have ideal monetary systems if wise and benevolent extraterrestrials were to take us in hand and administer our national money systems… A possible non political basis for a value standard…a good industrial consumption price index (ICPI) statistic. From…international prices of commodities such as copper, silver, tungsten…"

"...this standard, as a basis for the standardization of the value of the international money unit, would remove the political roles of the “grand pardoners""

"It is possible to construct a prices index based on moving averages...could be constructed by computing a moving average of the index for the base metals computed by pricing them modulo the index of the precious metals."

"... it seems that it would be intrinsically quite feasible to make use of sorts of services, energy, or prices, that depend on the national location of the definition of the commodity, service, or asset being priced."

It seems Szabo was running related simulations on these numbers:


Quote
"I have run some Monte Carlo simulations of hypothetical oil prices implied by long-term inflation expectations."

We might not understand Nash well, but Szabo would, and his blog "eerily" seems to devle perfectly into the specifics of what nash proposes.  Szabo describes and demystifies the history of prices of all significant commoditeces and growth factions like inflation.  Is this Szabo or Nash:
Quote
"The fault lies with poorly managed floating currencies..."

"...when inflation expectations decrease, we can expect (contrary to peak oil theory) oil pumping to greatly increase, as having dollars will once again become more valuable than having oil in the ground"

"We may be seeing only the first stages of a switch from floating currencies, which may be proving to be unworkable, to commodity-backed currencies"

"…in particular currencies should be eliminated in order to allow payment terms denominated in commodity indices to be as simple as payment terms denominated in dollars"

"These kinds of reforms will bring the benefits of stable commodity money "

"…humans also have foresight and can reason by analogy, and so can design an exchange to trade new kinds of securities, a new kind of insurance service, or a new kind of currency"

This in particular from Szabo perfectly describes the concept of ideal money, and he seems to predict just like nash, the ending of arbitrary money printing government schemes:

Quote
"If the Federal Reserve decided to use leading indicators (e.g. commodities) instead of trailing indicators… or decided to go to a de facto commodity index or back to the gold standard, and stopped bad practices such as “printing” dollars…we would not need to otherwise use commodities for monetary purposes."

"Commodity prices in dollars will level off, and then move back down close to historical trends based largely on just industrial consumption, if or when the Fed stops increasing the supply of dollars faster than the demand for dollars"

It seems to me none of this is hidden and when the material is put side by side it all makes complete sense, we seem comfortable to exist under a shroud of confusion because the evidence and explanation seems to have been in front of us the entire time.









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September 11, 2014, 04:22:08 PM
 #690

so... why are we still on this thread... lol  Grin

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September 11, 2014, 04:49:28 PM
 #691

I've seen that picture before and again I ask

1.  Where does it come from?
2.  How do we know for sure that it's Nick Szabo?

I don't know. All I know is it was linked from this page: http://dave.liberty.me/2014/05/02/who-is-satoshi-nakamoto/ with this statement regarding it: "**edit – 6/7/2014 – a picture of Nick Szabo at a 1997 conference has since surfaced (via Adrian Chen)". Don't shoot the messenger  Smiley
with all my searching that is all the reference I could find.  Although I'm not too good at this kind of thing.  Funny to think about the power of the community in this regard, although not for uncovering szabo or satoshi, since the most powerful probably wouldn't do it.

It would be an incredible story if it were Nash or if he were a significant player.  

But that man in that picture looks like a BOSS!  Looks like he could dismantle a government with 10 lines of code.  It would also be quite interesting if he was Szabo, reminds me of an irl Bruce Banner.

It would be quite surprising to me, and I would be just as happy to know it were Szabo, some random dude no one otherwise knows in the general public sphere.  However I cannot comprehend the coincidences between Szabo, Satoshi, and Nash's works.   There are very few people in the history of man that have a such a wholistic view to produce such knowledge.  Szabo's blog seems like random posts about random subjects, but if you really read it wholistically and understand the different directions in points to, the person behind them has an extensive understanding of the history of man up until present day and future technologies and social systems.

I can't help but think the information presented and alluded to in the szabo blog would take a lifetime to accumulate.  

Szabo also backhandedly (not sure if correct word) solved many previously known but unsolved "problems" that really needed bitcoin to solidify them as proofs.  He sort of "metaphorically" slid in solutions without presenting them in an academic form.  And this is why I understand bitcoin to be a unifying solution, once the person had the concept of "bitcoin" all of a sudden they could privately run around "solving" all sorts of problems previously thought not solvable.  Law, programming, economics, cryptology, quantum physics, quantum computing, history, archeology, and who knows what else.  

My understanding is "someone" has pretty much won every academic award out there...

I seems really clear to me if someone has read the majority of Szabo's blog, it is a past/present/future account of everything that has to do with bitcoin and it was started in 1995.  

I don't understand why most people dismiss the Shinichi Mochizuki connection so easily?

1. He is Japanese
2. He speaks perfect English since he moved to the US at age five and managed to graduate from fucking Princeton with a PhD at age 23 or 25 or whatever it was!
3. He likes to just leave brilliant paper on the internet and does not like going through proper channels (his abc conjecture papers)
4. He is so fucking brilliant that he has created his own mathematical framework in order to explain something that can't be understood using the existing tools.
5. Almost all of his papers found on his site uses the term "we" (just like the bitcoin paper)   even though no one else really understand what the fuck he is talking about, but him !
6. The bulk of his work seem to revolve around.. you guess it, Elliptic curves!
7. He is not a computer programer, hence why the code was written fairly poorly. (but hey.. it worked!)

To me he seems like a prime candidate for Satoshi! To me, he seems so smart,  that it's like he thought of the Blockchain while taking a shit and decided to spend a bit of time getting it going before he went back to his real love which is Mathematics and number theory. If anyone knew that secp256r1 was compromised, it would be that dude!

Only someone who doesn't understand that software engineer = profession...
Would buy that a hobbyist coder could produce even the somewhat sloppy BTC code base...
In the most difficult language to code in = C.

An amateur would simply never get it to work.

It's as if you believed that Mochizuki could perform a heart transplant or fly a jet fighter in combat...
Without putting in the 10,000 hours required to become a professional surgeon or pilot.
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September 11, 2014, 04:50:45 PM
 #692

@ traincarswreck

I totally agree with you that we should all be discussing "Ideal Money" the subject matter itself along with Szabo's papers on the same subjects. That s what's needed for the masses to understand why most of us are here and how to push this forward.
I think so too, I realize the material is incredibly dense and difficult to understand, so there is much derision towards it.  Nash is not the typical person we think Satoshi might be, yet I am sure we all developed some affinity towards them from the movie a beautiful mind.  I have come to understand there are red herrings in a beautiful mind as well. The most natable scene is one where the attempt to describe the break through moment Nash had (played by russell crowe).  It's well known this is NOT a "nash equilibrium", however, the scene says basically:

"Adam smith was right! Everyone must do whats right for themselves AND the group!"

This is not the typical nash equilibrium, however it happens to be a key realization for the concept of Ideal Money, which came to Nash nearly 30 years previous to the movie as I understand it.  Adam Smith's work is the backbone of Hayek's version of economics (as well as nash's of course).

The movie suggest Nash got better from taking medications, but this is not what happened in real life.  IRL he said he "willed" himself better with logic.

This might be the most amazing story of a man ever.  What the movie doesn't explain but Nash does later in interview, he fled to UK and Europe around the 1950-60's and tried to exchange his money for a type of superior quality (swiss I believe).  This along with his memorandum's to rand and nsa, show that all this is a very old concept to him.

One of his first great discoveries is "the bargaining problem".  Nash showed the value of money in relation to trade http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/cs286r/courses/spring02/papers/nash50a.pdf
On page 8 he shows a graph explaining the value of "barter" without money, and the right side graph is the value of trade facilitated by money.  This is how I came to all this, because I thought "what would be the next graph", and it hit me that the next level is bitcoin.

I must think that 50+ years ago when this paper was written, Nash asked himself the same question, and has been obsessing about it ever since.

He became obsessed with the conflict in the middle east.  We must understand "war" is just a product or function of underlying economics, when you fix the economy you fix "war".  The wars in this world are largely between "western" thinking and "islamic" thinking. And Nash points out:

Quote
There is also, for example, the Islamic concept which has the effect of classing as
"usury" any lending of money at interest. (Here we can wonder about what sort of inflation
rates might have been typical for any major varieties of money, such as Byzantine money,
at the times actually contemporaneous with the Prophet Mohammed.)

You see by "printing money" western thinking is to destabilize economies so governments can control and sway their people. Nash explains if one could create an economy of "stability" or in effect without government money printing, then ALL economies could use it to stabilize their own currencies.  This is significant, because Islam does not subscribe to this system.  This means western powers would seek not to destroy these Islamic government states, but simply to destabilize them.  But its not even an evil "they", if we have followed all these works we understand Adam Smith showed economy follows and unstoppable invisible hand.

This is why you need bitcoin, because no government in the world can resist such a temptation to manipulate the monetary system, even if they want, other governments would destabilize it for them...

What might they do to you, if you were running around trying to tell everyone the truth to this?





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September 11, 2014, 04:58:16 PM
 #693


Only someone who doesn't understand that software engineer = profession...
Would buy that a hobbyist coder could produce even the somewhat sloppy BTC code base...
In the most difficult language to code in = C.

An amateur would simply never get it to work.

It's as if you believed that Mochizuki could perform a heart transplant or fly a jet fighter in combat...
Without putting in the 10,000 hours required to become a professional surgeon or pilot.
I somewhat tend to agree.  And again Nash is the only one that seemingly fits this, since he was around since well before the history of the internet, and most programming languages. Although its true either could have contracted the work out.  Who is likely to use the words "bloody hard".  Is it a British saying, or old English culture?

I think rather bitcoin was created by someone who had such a vast and incredible knowledge of the systems and functions of computers and their languages that it would take more than the average lifetime to accumulate.  Someone who might have predicted years ago that computers could arranged in a highly parallel and decentralized fashion:
Quote
The basic idea is simple. Instead of having a single control unit sequencing the operations of the machine in series (except for certain subsidiary operations as certain input and output functions) as is now done, the idea is to decentralize control with several different control units capable of directing various simultaneous operations and interrelating them when appropriate.

It seems clear that as soon as the machines become able to solve intellectual problems of the highest difficulty which can be solved by humans they will be able to solve most of the problems enormously faster than a human. In closing, the human brain is a highly parallel setup.

It has to be.

Someone who spent many many years understanding and study economics and its relation to the history of man.  There are very few peoples in this world with such a holistic view, and I tend to think that we are underestimating the bitcoin.pdf and the whole project.  "Satoshi" presented it as a whim, like it was a random realization.  But we shouldn't be fooled by the presentation, years and years of contemplation and study likely went into this final implementation.

And remember what Ted said:

Quote
“That is how Sherlock Holmes would do it – look for the pattern aided by an author who already knew the answer.” – Ted Nelson
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September 11, 2014, 06:05:22 PM
 #694

i agree somebody had SUPERB economics knowledge + superb coding language + superb.. computers/electronics one.
id say it had to be one guy because if there were few - we would already know who satoshi is + the project wouldnt actually be that flawless. peopel fight have different opinions even when they have same plan [im just releasing a coin, im feeling that on my own back].

also the main rule is - the only way for person to keep a secret is to be the only person that knows it.

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September 11, 2014, 06:25:43 PM
 #695

i agree somebody had SUPERB economics knowledge + superb coding language + superb.. computers/electronics one.
id say it had to be one guy because if there were few - we would already know who satoshi is + the project wouldnt actually be that flawless. peopel fight have different opinions even when they have same plan [im just releasing a coin, im feeling that on my own back].

also the main rule is - the only way for person to keep a secret is to be the only person that knows it.
yes and don't forget, they must of had a superb knowledge of also:

probability theory
game theory (market choices and reactions)
law (will this be legal)
intelligence agencies such as nsa and rand
encryption

Apparently satoshi lived in the central/eastern American time zone.

I'd suggest there this narrows the list drastically if we realize bitocin goes well beyond the whitepaper explanation. The only possible likely candidates seem to be Szabo, Dai, and Dr. Nash.

Someone realized they could decentralize society, but that we would fear it, so they figured out they could present the solution in a tangible form of "gold" and that by doing what is right for the individual (hoarding gold) we would actually at the same time benefiting society.

This seems to make sense when viewed in context with Nash's explanation in ideal money:
Quote
When one studies what are called "cooperative games", which in economic terms include
mergers and acquisitions or cartel formation, it is found to be appropriate and is standard
to form two basic classifications:
(1): Games with transferable utility.
(and)
(2): Games without transferable utility
(or "NTU" games).
In the world of practical realities it is money which typically causes the existence of
a game of type (1) rather than of type (2); money is the "lubrication" which enables the
efficient "transfer of utility". And generally if games can be transformed from type (2) to
type (1) there is a gain, on average, to all the players in terms of whatever might be expected
to be the outcome.

Money brought great value to our society in terms of trade, this is what Nash proved in the 1950's, but what it seems he may have foreseen, is a "universal" standardized money, brings INCREDIBLE value to society.  Because it naturally and inevitably brings out a cooperative society. Because economy can flow like adam smith described, EVERYONE gains.

The "nash" equilibrium was the solution to "non-cooperative" games, there was great economic and even war game significance. They rocked the world. What might we think the "cooperative" equilibrium solutions might bring? What might they look like?  I think we are experience them...

50 year old program on cooperative games http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Economics/Papers/2004/2004-20_paper.pdf

Maybe we can see some significance.  What is the value of their simulations?  How did satoshi know what parameters to use for bitcoin to turn it into gold?

Satoshi is an alchemist.


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September 11, 2014, 07:26:07 PM
 #696

Well, what did the email say?

"Dear sir or madam! My name is Satoshi and I am the creator of Bitcoin. All my bitcoins are now stuck in BTC exchange in Nigeria. I need your help to transfer all my BTC to Coinbase. In exchange of your help I will give you 1/3 (one third) of all BTC in my possession converted into USD. Please email me your bank atm account, pin code and social security number.." Grin
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September 11, 2014, 07:27:05 PM
 #697

Satoshi is probably one person that read the work of the others. Indeed, the only way to keep something secret is to not tell anyone at all.

Something like this  Cool

People
involved
Time required
to complete idea
Risk of
apprehension
14 years30%
23 years60%
31 year85%
41 year90%
51.2 years96%
61.5 years99%
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September 11, 2014, 07:41:39 PM
 #698

Well, what did the email say?

"Dear sir or madam! My name is Satoshi and I am the creator of Bitcoin. All my bitcoins are now stuck in BTC exchange in Nigeria. I need your help to transfer all my BTC to Coinbase. In exchange of your help I will give you 1/3 (one third) of all BTC in my possession converted into USD. Please email me your bank atm account, pin code and social security number.." Grin

ROFL!

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September 11, 2014, 07:45:00 PM
 #699

Satoshi is probably one person that read the work of the others. Indeed, the only way to keep something secret is to not tell anyone at all.

Something like this  Cool

People
involved
Time required
to complete idea
Risk of
apprehension
14 years30%
23 years60%
31 year85%
41 year90%
51.2 years96%
61.5 years99%

Actually, Satoshi stated that he started actively coding Bitcoin 0.1 version in June 2007, so he needed less then 2 years to finish it. He haven't said how long the knowledge accumulation phase lasted, but you can assume it took many years if not decades. You can not pull required knowledge (to do everything right the first time you try it) out of thin air, it's almost a lifelong process.
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September 11, 2014, 08:13:14 PM
Last edit: September 11, 2014, 08:30:54 PM by traincarswreck
 #700


Actually, Satoshi stated that he started actively coding Bitcoin 0.1 version in June 2007, so he needed less then 2 years to finish it. He haven't said how long the knowledge accumulation phase lasted, but you can assume it took many years if not decades. You can not pull required knowledge (to do everything right the first time you try it) out of thin air, it's almost a lifelong process.
Yes, and Szabo's blog IS that knowledge.  the reason it is not so well known as such, is because its huge! It completes the history of economics that adam smith didn't have access to. The history of the American natives, which leads to the kula ring solution, which changes our understanding of the history of man 100's of thousands of years ago.

This would seem to me to be the significance of starting out the lecture ideal money with:
Quote
The special medium or commodity known as money has a long and interesting history
All of the paragraphs and keywords of Ideal Money seem to match specific articles and blogs of Szabo, like the contents to a book.

How else could this make sense:

Quote
...while they have claimed to be operating for high and noble objectives of general welfare what is clearly true is that they have made it
easier for governments to "print money".

And this parallel makes it seem not implausible that a process of political evolution might lead to the expectation on the
part of citizens in the "great democracies" that they should be better situated to be able
to understand whatever will be the monetary policies which, indeed, are typically of great
importance to citizens who may have alternative options for where to place their "savings".
That was 20 years ago, how could he predict todays headlines:

http://www.coindesk.com/bank-of-england-bitcoin-disrupt-monetary-policy/
Quote
“Since in this extreme scenario all payments would be conducted away from sterling as base money for essentially all of the economy, the Bank’s ability to influence price-setting and real activity would be severely impaired.”

Even references Byzantine money:
Quote
(Here we can wonder about what sort of inflation rates might have been typical for any major varieties of money, such as Byzantine money,
at the times actually contemporaneous with the Prophet Mohammed.)
Keeping in mind "islamic" money is of the non money printing type like bitcoin. But these are things SZABO wrote about

And a reference to Jesus smashing the money changer tables?
Quote
But the New Testament story about "money changers" being driven from the Temple
illustrates clearly the idea of putting the clearly mundane and possibly "unclean" utility of
money at some distance from where that money would presumably continue to be received
when used as a vehicle for donations.

Who are our present day money changers  and what did satoshi do to their "tables"?


Ideal money "seemed" like crazy gibberish from some crazy old man...but I think it was rather just esoteric hidden meaning writing, quietly waiting in the public view.




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