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Author Topic: Is this concept viable ?  (Read 1057 times)
Odalv (OP)
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September 09, 2014, 07:48:44 PM
 #1

BIP: 32
Hierarchical Deterministic Wallets (HDW)

1. Government will create one.
2. Government will require to pay tax in Bitcoin.
3. Every bank, business and citizen who will want to use this government's bitcoins (NASA, army, clerk, ...) will be forced to use derived child wallet.
4. Sending bitcoin outside this HDW will be criminal. (Government will give you wallet, what will perform the check and does not enable illegal transactions by default)
(maybe 5. When the infrastructure is built and majority is using HDW then accepting bitcoins from outside of HDW will require some sort of KYC/AML)


+ Government is able to protect you from scam and reverse any transaction inside HDW (they have master key).
- Government can confiscate all your money.
+/- Government will tax you automatically :-)
Odalv (OP)
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September 09, 2014, 08:24:17 PM
 #2

And maybe we can implement new feature in bitcoin protocol

"Ignore this gubmint transactions" in case master key is compromised/misused.

Using voting of participants "The NEW government" will be able to change to new master key.
zimmah
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September 09, 2014, 08:32:06 PM
 #3

sorry, i just don't trust governments enough. Nor should anyone.

It's basically giving government unlimited control and full authority to do whatever the hell they want.

Not only can they create unlimited amounts of money at an instant, they can also deny you access to your money.

The possibilities of abuse are just too much.
Odalv (OP)
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September 09, 2014, 08:37:03 PM
 #4

sorry, i just don't trust governments enough. Nor should anyone.

It's basically giving government unlimited control and full authority to do whatever the hell they want.

Not only can they create unlimited amounts of money at an instant, they can also deny you access to your money.

The possibilities of abuse are just too much.

What about police and military. Everybody will have own ? Who has more bitcoins will have bigger army ?
Wilhelm
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September 09, 2014, 08:49:46 PM
 #5

sorry, i just don't trust governments enough. Nor should anyone.

It's basically giving government unlimited control and full authority to do whatever the hell they want.

Not only can they create unlimited amounts of money at an instant, they can also deny you access to your money.

The possibilities of abuse are just too much.

What about police and military. Everybody will have own ? Who has more bitcoins will have bigger army ?

Do you trust police and military?

I do understand that governments must get paid for the services they provide for their citizen. However this does not mean that they must control the money.
There is no way that governments can receive tax through cryptocurrencies without owning the system. Governments must adapt to crypto and find other methods of collecting tax revenues.

Bitcoin is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get !!
Odalv (OP)
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September 09, 2014, 08:54:23 PM
 #6

sorry, i just don't trust governments enough. Nor should anyone.

It's basically giving government unlimited control and full authority to do whatever the hell they want.

Not only can they create unlimited amounts of money at an instant, they can also deny you access to your money.

The possibilities of abuse are just too much.

What about police and military. Everybody will have own ? Who has more bitcoins will have bigger army ?

Do you trust police and military?

I do understand that governments must get paid for the services they provide for their citizen. However this does not mean that they must control the money.
There is no way that governments can receive tax through cryptocurrencies without owning the system. Governments must adapt to crypto and find other methods of collecting tax revenues.

I'm only asking how to protect against Putin, Kim Jong Il, militant muslims (global scale). Murderer or thief on local scale. Can we do this without fiat ?
Wilhelm
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September 09, 2014, 09:27:57 PM
 #7

sorry, i just don't trust governments enough. Nor should anyone.

It's basically giving government unlimited control and full authority to do whatever the hell they want.

Not only can they create unlimited amounts of money at an instant, they can also deny you access to your money.

The possibilities of abuse are just too much.

What about police and military. Everybody will have own ? Who has more bitcoins will have bigger army ?

Do you trust police and military?

I do understand that governments must get paid for the services they provide for their citizen. However this does not mean that they must control the money.
There is no way that governments can receive tax through cryptocurrencies without owning the system. Governments must adapt to crypto and find other methods of collecting tax revenues.

I'm only asking how to protect against Putin, Kim Jong Il, militant muslims (global scale). Murderer or thief on local scale. Can we do this without fiat ?

First of all I would like you to look at your own government and media. We are all affected by propaganda and bullshit vented by our governments. Every government is rotten in it's own way, this rot is called power.
Look at the last few wars, they all seem to have a common denominator called natural resources (gas, oil, etc.). The Ukraine conflict is not finished yet and the gas has already been sold to Shell.
Everyone fights for a reason and in my opinion war should always be avoided.

That said I do believe we need a military and yes that military should get paid.

In essence you are asking how can we pay for government services when using a payment system that is decentralized?

In my opinion there are a few footholds that might even make for better governments. This is thinking out loud by the way Smiley


The blockchain as foothold for governments.
A citizen could be required to register their account(s) to a government for which they will be sent a tax bill.
Vendors could be forced to only accept payments from registered accounts.
If every account would be registered with a government and to a person or company, the governement can bill taxes.
All non registered accounts could be deemed illegal.
Not paying your tax would constitute a criminal act.

This could improve governments in two ways.
1. Free country registration.
Don't like your country move to one you do like and give them tax for it.
This might not be practical due to space and natural resources.

2. multi-party government, full democracy.
Let the world/country be controlled by those that get the most tax. Don't like what one government party is doing? Cut their income by giving it to a party you do trust.
Want more military action, give your tax to the people that fulfill that goal.
This also prevents rotten government officials that go against their citizen since they will receive too little money to act.
Full democracy might not be ideal but money distribution can also be tweaked (for example base-tax and party-tax).

3. Less money more efficiency
Looking at point 2, a government party that works efficiently will receive more money from citizen since they get most done.

etc.



Bitcoin is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get !!
zimmah
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September 09, 2014, 10:22:50 PM
 #8

sorry, i just don't trust governments enough. Nor should anyone.

It's basically giving government unlimited control and full authority to do whatever the hell they want.

Not only can they create unlimited amounts of money at an instant, they can also deny you access to your money.

The possibilities of abuse are just too much.

What about police and military. Everybody will have own ? Who has more bitcoins will have bigger army ?

Do you trust police and military?

I do understand that governments must get paid for the services they provide for their citizen. However this does not mean that they must control the money.
There is no way that governments can receive tax through cryptocurrencies without owning the system. Governments must adapt to crypto and find other methods of collecting tax revenues.

I'm only asking how to protect against Putin, Kim Jong Il, militant muslims (global scale). Murderer or thief on local scale. Can we do this without fiat ?

we couldn't do it with fiat, and we can't do it without fiat.

but giving government completely financial freedom, as well as giving them complete control over our finance is just asking for problems.

Imagine a dictator being able to prevent you from traveling, buying food, buying clothes, paying rent, paying for water, electricity, gas, etc. Just because you do not do what he wants you to do.
Odalv (OP)
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September 10, 2014, 11:49:29 PM
 #9

It is not viable concept ! :-)
4. Sending bitcoin outside this HDW will be criminal. - It is not financial freedom and therefore it will not work.
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September 11, 2014, 03:14:25 AM
 #10

It won't work because their will be no incentive to use this service except the fear of being called a criminal.  The users of bitcoin and people in general will see right through this power grab and the idea won't be taken seriously.  nobody will use it and Bitcoin will continue to work as it has been.  Interesting thought but highly unlikely to be a threat in my opinion.
KarmaShark
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September 11, 2014, 03:26:49 AM
 #11

It is not viable concept ! :-)
4. Sending bitcoin outside this HDW will be criminal. - It is not financial freedom and therefore it will not work.


It isn't out of the question that an overzealous country may make such a totalitarian pitch in the future. Using Bitcoin is a voluntary choice. If that changed and people were forced to use it through a constrained set of restrictions, people could chose to adopt yet another cryptocurrency. Many other possibilities exist that give me hope such a day will never come to pass.
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