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Author Topic: First zero block - where did it come from ?  (Read 2254 times)
ser
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May 10, 2011, 09:52:41 AM
 #1

Could somebody please explain me the following questions

When looking at http://blockexplorer.com/b/0 you can see there is no field 'Previous block' in the zero block like any other block has

Where did the first zero block  come from ?

I mean how first 50 coins (first block number 0 ) appeared in the circulation in the system while form the beginning of the system there were only users with zero balances in the system and nobody could make any transaction because everybody has 0 in the balances?

Who did emission of those first 50 coins in the system ?

Correct me please if I misunderstand somewhere in my thoughts
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FreeMoney
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May 10, 2011, 09:55:24 AM
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Generate coins never have previous coins as inputs so it isn't special in that way. I would think it just used 0 or null or whatever in the place of the hash of the previous block and Bitcoin is coded not to mind.

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May 10, 2011, 10:05:07 AM
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I understand that the genisis block was created by Satoshi but what about the 2nd block? if Satoshi never spent any of the first coins what was the inputs for the 2nd block  Huh I thought we where hashing transaction data but the first 10 blocks where not involved in any transactions.
in fact what was the first block to be spent?

btc address:1MEyKbVbmMVzVxLdLmt4Zf1SZHFgj56aqg
gpg fingerprint:DD1AB28F8043D0837C86A4CA7D6367953C6FE9DC

ser
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May 10, 2011, 10:13:29 AM
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I understand that technically it's very easy to code not to mind it but I mean about Bitcoin concept where each block is generated only by doing some calculation ('mining')

Who and how mined the first zero block ? Did it appeared from nowhere ? from air ? or from where ? - I don't understand exactly this point
ser
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May 10, 2011, 10:16:37 AM
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to deadlizard

right, if first block was created by Satoshi I think it means it was created from air, practically like any other currency in the world is printed

 
ser
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May 10, 2011, 10:23:53 AM
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1st, 2nd, 3rd etc first blocks (at least 10 first blocks, maybe more , i checked only first 10)   were not involved in any transactions - so it's not clear who created them and what the first spend was
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May 10, 2011, 12:02:39 PM
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I understand that technically it's very easy to code not to mind it but I mean about Bitcoin concept where each block is generated only by doing some calculation ('mining')

Who and how mined the first zero block ? Did it appeared from nowhere ? from air ? or from where ? - I don't understand exactly this point

first block was created by https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Satoshi_Nakamoto, creator of bitcoins , you don't expect that god send btc to earth do you?
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May 10, 2011, 12:05:55 PM
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to deadlizard
right, if first block was created by Satoshi I think it means it was created from air, practically like any other currency in the world is printed

so what?
whole concept was to create new currency from nothing, the difference is you can't print more and more of bitcoins as you go as there will be 21M of them and that is it

with paper money there is nothing to stop anyone from adding more and more of them, while after creating 21M of btc no more can be added to network
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May 10, 2011, 12:58:51 PM
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first block was created by https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Satoshi_Nakamoto, creator of bitcoins , you don't expect that god send btc to earth do you?

Ummm... Didn't God send us Satoshi?  or Haven't you been reading you BitBible before bed again?

One off NP-Hard.
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May 10, 2011, 04:32:49 PM
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I understand that the genisis block was created by Satoshi but what about the 2nd block? if Satoshi never spent any of the first coins what was the inputs for the 2nd block  Huh I thought we where hashing transaction data but the first 10 blocks where not involved in any transactions.
in fact what was the first block to be spent?

Transactions are only verified, they aren't required to hash a block. It's entirely possible to mine blocks without any transactions in them.
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May 10, 2011, 04:45:26 PM
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I understand that the genisis block was created by Satoshi but what about the 2nd block? if Satoshi never spent any of the first coins what was the inputs for the 2nd block  Huh I thought we where hashing transaction data but the first 10 blocks where not involved in any transactions.
in fact what was the first block to be spent?

Transactions are only verified, they aren't required to hash a block. It's entirely possible to mine blocks without any transactions in them.

Right. And even if they were for some reason there is a Generate tx in every block anyway.

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ser
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May 10, 2011, 05:34:07 PM
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if genesis block was created by Satoshi it cost nothing or how ?
ser
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May 10, 2011, 05:36:59 PM
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Transactions are only verified, they aren't required to hash a block. It's entirely possible to mine blocks without any transactions in them.

could you please explain how it could be  possible to mine blocks without any transaction in them ?
Ian Maxwell
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May 10, 2011, 05:50:12 PM
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could you please explain how it could be  possible to mine blocks without any transaction in them ?

Well, there's not much to explain. Each block includes a list of transactions, but it's totally valid for that list to be empty. (In practice it's never empty, since it at least includes the block bounty, but it may be someday.)

This is the raw data in Block 1. Search for the word "out" to find transaction amounts (specifically amounts received). Notice there is only one transaction, namely the 50 BTC bounty awarded to the miner.

For comparison, this is the raw data in Block 104440. Notice that there are several additional transactions listed.

Since each block must include the hash of its parent in the blockchain, it's not possible to "cheat" by producing thousands of empty blocks in advance and pushing them all to the network at once (something I wondered about before). The network will ignore them because they will refer to an incorrect or outdated parent block.

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ser
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May 10, 2011, 06:08:19 PM
 #15

I understand that the genisis block was created by Satoshi but what about the 2nd block? if Satoshi never spent any of the first coins what was the inputs for the 2nd block  Huh I thought we where hashing transaction data but the first 10 blocks where not involved in any transactions.
in fact what was the first block to be spent?

Transactions are only verified, they aren't required to hash a block. It's entirely possible to mine blocks without any transactions in them.

if you are right - it looks like if we  just imagined,drew ( somewhere in database on a server) some symbols  and called them 'coins' with fixed amount of them,for example 21M , and said that these symbols could cost smth and began trade them

or for example we could take 1 paypal usd or 1 libertyreserve usd (no matter what exactly, even pixel or some bits or smth else digital) and agreed they could cost 0.1 or 10 or 100 real USD etc and that there couldn't be more then 21M of them

In comparison with Bitcoin, Bitcoin network only guarantee  protection from printing new coins by somebody except bitcoin users , final amount 21M  and absence of central authority issues new money

and the question is where do all the blocks, coins take value from ?

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May 10, 2011, 06:12:48 PM
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and the question is where do all the blocks, coins take value from ?

Silk Road  Wink
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May 10, 2011, 06:21:11 PM
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and the question is where do all the blocks, coins take value from ?
From people believing coins have value. If people are prepared to pay, say, $5 per bitcoin then the value of one bitcoin is $5. If people are not prepared to pay anything for a bitcoin, then bitcoins have zero value. If people are prepared to pay more than $5 for one bitcoin, then the price rises.

There are a few sections on value on the wiki. Not sure they necessarily answer your question, but they're a useful read.

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