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Author Topic: Converting USD (cash) to BTC and back to USD, anonymously?  (Read 3768 times)
JD6169
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April 27, 2012, 07:51:10 AM
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   I've scanned the forums and cannot find an efficient/simple way of converting USD (Cash) to BTC and back to USD (Cash) while maintaining anonymity. Here's the scenario...

  Subject A and B don't know each other.

  Subject A receives services, for which payment is required

  Subject A then converts payment (USD) to BTC

  Subject A sends BTC to Subject B's BTC Wallet Address

  Subject B converts BTC to USD (Cash)

  Transaction complete.


    Can anyone explain to me how to accomplish the above, in an efficient and anonymous manner?

    Many Thanks.      
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JD6169
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April 27, 2012, 08:29:30 AM
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  47 views and no replies!? Come on, even a push in the right direction would be sufficient and much appreciated. 
Foxpup
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April 27, 2012, 09:57:50 AM
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I don't understand. I A is paying cash, and B wants to receive cash, why doesn't A just hand over the cash to B? Why get bitcoins involved at all? In any case, it's the last step that poses the problem. To convert bitcoins to cash any other way than by trading in person, you need to give a bank account number, which of course is not anonymous. There is just no way around this other than to make the trade in person.

Will pretend to do unverifiable things (while actually eating an enchilada-style burrito) for bitcoins: 1K6d1EviQKX3SVKjPYmJGyWBb1avbmCFM4
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April 27, 2012, 10:32:15 AM
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   I've scanned the forums and cannot find an efficient/simple way of converting USD (Cash) to BTC and back to USD (Cash) while maintaining anonymity. Here's the scenario...

  Subject A and B don't know each other.

  Subject A receives services, for which payment is required

  Subject A then converts payment (USD) to BTC

  Subject A sends BTC to Subject B's BTC Wallet Address

  Subject B converts BTC to USD (Cash)

  Transaction complete.


    Can anyone explain to me how to accomplish the above, in an efficient and anonymous manner?

    Many Thanks.      


I don't believe this is possible.  First of all, as Foxpup says, to get cash from BTC, you need a bank account.  Unless you know someone who will trade for you, which, IMHO, is quite risky.  Secondly, I don't pretend to fully understand the encryption behind bitcoin, but from what I've seen, it's very easy to trace bitcoins, to see how they moved.  Now working it to see what IP had it, and who owned that IP, is probably beyond the scope of the average person.  But, but is is certainly by no means impossible.

MMinerMonitor author, monitor/auto/schedule reboots/alerts/remote/MobileMiner for Ants and Spondoolies! Latest (5.2). MPoolMonitor author, monitor stats/workers for most pools, global BTC stats (current/nxt diff/USD val/hashrate/calc)! Latest (v4.2) 
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April 28, 2012, 01:34:38 AM
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Bitcoin is not an anonymous digital currency.  It is a pseudonymous digital currency that is traceable.

With proper precautions, it can be used more or less anonymously.

Exchanges add an additional weak spot when trying to use the currency anonymously.

It can be done but it is expensive and time consuming -- increasingly more so when the amount to convert and the level of privacy required increases.

 Subject A then converts payment (USD) to BTC

For A to obtain BTC anonymously there are scenarios:

- In the U.S., Canada and Australia there are cash deposit methods at banks or post offices where no ID is required.  Those funds can then be used to purchase bitcoins from an exchange.   Not all exchanges allow purchases when using Tor to access the site anonymously, so know that.  Just because an ID isn't required doesn't mean you would never be identified (banks have cameras, for instance).

- Cash in the mail.  There are exchanges and individuals who will accept cash by mail and will send bitcoins to the bitcoin address included in the envelope.  Get-Bitcoin (USD), BitcoinNordic.com (EUR) are two such examples.  Individuals will accommodate this as well.  There are risks, of course, in that the post office fails to deliver or that the recipient isn't honest.  
 - http://mndrix.blogspot.com/2011/09/easily-anonymous-bitcoins.html

- Person-to-person trade.  There are many trusted individuals on Bitcoin-otc or other services where a trade, person-to-person, can be made.  Making use of a dead drop will help to protect your anonymity if required.
 - http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#bitcoin-otc-foyer
 - https://www.bitcoinlocator.com

To further protect the privacy of the transaction, the received coins can then be mixed with others.  There are numerous ways this can be achieved, including using a mixing service or employing an EWallet.   Using EWallet for this specifically are addressed here:
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Anonymity
 - http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/439


 Subject A sends BTC to Subject B's BTC Wallet Address

Same as above.  Use Bitcoin with Tor to essentially eliminate any chance your IP will be associated as the node your transaction was "first relayed by".

 Subject B converts BTC to USD (Cash)


This can be the most difficult step if a high level of anonymity is desired.  Certainly, the received coins can be further mixed like has been explained above.  But there still would be a point where cash is physically retrieved in exchange for bitcoins.

One method, just like above -- is to use #bitcoin-otc to find an opportunity to do a person-to-person trade.  Green Dot Moneypak codes can be purchased from BTCPak.com anonymously, but from there they can't be used with reloadable cards without first registering the destination card.

There are cash out methods where you would receive cash in the mail, but the mailing address you provide is where this method no longer remains one that preserves anonymity.  If a physical cash exchange isn't required then there are numerous goods and services available with payment using those bitcoins being a possible alternative.  
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

Here's a related artcle:
- http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/2011/07/maintaining-anonymity-while-using.html
(Notice how nearly every service listed in that article is now defunct?  Anonymity is a double edged knife.  Some "mixers" have been scams and some exchanges never delivered.  And because they too operate anonymously they can easily scam.)

duukat
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May 03, 2012, 02:20:39 PM
 #6

Looks like you need a money launderer. 
http://www.howstuffworks.com/money-laundering.htm
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May 03, 2012, 02:43:14 PM
 #7

Or just use http://btcnearme.com

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1610684
babcoccl
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June 11, 2013, 10:31:23 PM
 #8

Moneypak allows you to be completely anonymous. High fees.

https://moneypaktrader.com/
suryc
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June 11, 2013, 10:42:51 PM
 #9

Bitcoin is not an anonymous digital currency.  It is a pseudonymous digital currency that is traceable.

With proper precautions, it can be used more or less anonymously.

Exchanges add an additional weak spot when trying to use the currency anonymously.

It can be done but it is expensive and time consuming -- increasingly more so when the amount to convert and the level of privacy required increases.

 Subject A then converts payment (USD) to BTC

For A to obtain BTC anonymously there are scenarios:

- In the U.S., Canada and Australia there are cash deposit methods at banks or post offices where no ID is required.  Those funds can then be used to purchase bitcoins from an exchange.   Not all exchanges allow purchases when using Tor to access the site anonymously, so know that.  Just because an ID isn't required doesn't mean you would never be identified (banks have cameras, for instance).

- Cash in the mail.  There are exchanges and individuals who will accept cash by mail and will send bitcoins to the bitcoin address included in the envelope.  Get-Bitcoin (USD), BitcoinNordic.com (EUR) are two such examples.  Individuals will accommodate this as well.  There are risks, of course, in that the post office fails to deliver or that the recipient isn't honest.  
 - http://mndrix.blogspot.com/2011/09/easily-anonymous-bitcoins.html

- Person-to-person trade.  There are many trusted individuals on Bitcoin-otc or other services where a trade, person-to-person, can be made.  Making use of a dead drop will help to protect your anonymity if required.
 - http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#bitcoin-otc-foyer
 - https://www.bitcoinlocator.com

To further protect the privacy of the transaction, the received coins can then be mixed with others.  There are numerous ways this can be achieved, including using a mixing service or employing an EWallet.   Using EWallet for this specifically are addressed here:
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Anonymity
 - http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/439


 Subject A sends BTC to Subject B's BTC Wallet Address

Same as above.  Use Bitcoin with Tor to essentially eliminate any chance your IP will be associated as the node your transaction was "first relayed by".

 Subject B converts BTC to USD (Cash)


This can be the most difficult step if a high level of anonymity is desired.  Certainly, the received coins can be further mixed like has been explained above.  But there still would be a point where cash is physically retrieved in exchange for bitcoins.

One method, just like above -- is to use #bitcoin-otc to find an opportunity to do a person-to-person trade.  Green Dot Moneypak codes can be purchased from BTCPak.com anonymously, but from there they can't be used with reloadable cards without first registering the destination card.

There are cash out methods where you would receive cash in the mail, but the mailing address you provide is where this method no longer remains one that preserves anonymity.  If a physical cash exchange isn't required then there are numerous goods and services available with payment using those bitcoins being a possible alternative.  
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

Here's a related artcle:
- http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/2011/07/maintaining-anonymity-while-using.html
(Notice how nearly every service listed in that article is now defunct?  Anonymity is a double edged knife.  Some "mixers" have been scams and some exchanges never delivered.  And because they too operate anonymously they can easily scam.)

Excellent explanation and to address the last point of Subject B converting BTC to cash anonymously, here is something new:
www.Bitcoin-Brokers.org is buying Bitcoins at a rate of 8% below MtGox weighted average price. Payments are sent via MoneyGram and have the option of NO ID required for cash pick up.
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