bitcoin difficulty + btc price

[nocroom]

now bitcoin difficulty went up, you think will go back down again or will be hashing power + renewable energy power is that will make it?

only thing i see good about that will be pushing low end hashers out and selling off the mining equipment driving total hashing lower making bitcoin difficulty back down again for a short time input?

Also you see btc price to go up by Christmas ?

[Beliathon]

difficulty up --> time --> price up

[goozman96]

The price will go back up eventually otherwise the difficulty will have to lower eventually. People will stop mining if they're losing money.

[BittBurger]

I hear this mentioned often.   Maybe someone can clear something up for me.  People warn that if the price of Bitcoin doesn't rise, miners will suffer, and that means Bitcoin will suffer.  Isn't this a self-adjusting system though?  If difficulty gets too hard, fewer people mine, and difficulty goes back down.  If miners suffer due to low BTC values, fewer miners will mine, difficulty will decrease, and profitability will still be worthwhile to those who remain.   It will reach a new (lower) equilibrium.   So is there really a concern?

Thanks

-B-

[nocroom]

I hear this mentioned often.   Maybe someone can clear something up for me.  People warn that if the price of Bitcoin doesn't rise, miners will suffer, and that means Bitcoin will suffer.  Isn't this a self-adjusting system though?  If difficulty gets too hard, fewer people mine, and difficulty goes back down.  If miners suffer due to low BTC values, fewer miners will mine, difficulty will decrease, and profitability will still be worthwhile to those who remain.   It will reach a new (lower) equilibrium.   So is there really a concern?

Thanks

-B-

I'm planning getting 3 sp35's, so hoping that bitcoin difficulty goes down

[electricmarbles]

we are still a long way off before the system starts self sustaining itself with negative difficulty drops. with the data centers coming online theres no way theyll start unplugging because the price has dipped a bit.

[philipma1957]

we are still a long way off before the system starts self sustaining itself with negative difficulty drops. with the data centers coming online theres no way theyll start unplugging because the price has dipped a bit.

The mine a few th of hash using 2-6  kwatts  in my shed/garage/basement guy is not longer much of a factor.

Chips and units using .5 or .6  watts are not that important.

 If a company can build a 1ph data center for under 500btc and get cheap power at 3 cents a watt it is a sure money maker.

I think asicminer, bitfury and bitmaintech can all do this.

So look at a btc calc read out.

they can make insane money if they limit the growth of their dc's and sales to us to 10%.  they only need to maintain the prices about 460 usd a coin. I think the next 4-6 months time they will look to do this. Little guys like us will need to find cheap power more then any other factor
second  factor $ per gh

[Nagle]

difficulty up --> time --> price up

No.

Look at the price and difficulty graphs for the last six months. Difficulty is going to the moon, price is going nowhere.

Difficulty should start to level off when price/performance of Bitcoin ASICs levels off. Probably in 2015.

[nocroom]

difficulty up --> time --> price up

No.

Look at the price and difficulty graphs for the last six months. Difficulty is going to the moon, price is going nowhere.

Difficulty should start to level off when price/performance of Bitcoin ASICs levels off. Probably in 2015.

So is still good idea to increase hash power?

[rammy2k2]

now bitcoin difficulty went up

oh really ? 

[xstr8guy]

Sorry to be the bearer of such depressing news but...

The large private datacenters/ASIC manufacturers are so far beyond home miners in every conceivable way. The difficulty will continue to rise long after mining at home is completely unprofitable.

And if/when difficulty starts to decline, it will never again be profitable for home miners to join back in the game because the massive datacenters will ride a thin line of profitability that will exclude everyone else but the most efficient operations.

[ajw7989]

Sorry to be the bearer of such depressing news but...

The large private datacenters/ASIC manufacturers are so far beyond home miners in every conceivable way. The difficulty will continue to rise long after mining at home is completely unprofitable.

And if/when difficulty starts to decline, it will never again be profitable for home miners to join back in the game because the massive datacenters will ride a thin line of profitability that will exclude everyone else but the most efficient operations.

I have a feeling this is coming pretty quickly. IT is almost impossible for any home miners to make an ROI atm and i doubt it will be possible at all by the end of the year unless bitcoin price spikes to at least 800.

[DrG]

Sorry to be the bearer of such depressing news but...

The large private datacenters/ASIC manufacturers are so far beyond home miners in every conceivable way. The difficulty will continue to rise long after mining at home is completely unprofitable.

And if/when difficulty starts to decline, it will never again be profitable for home miners to join back in the game because the massive datacenters will ride a thin line of profitability that will exclude everyone else but the most efficient operations.

I have a feeling this is coming pretty quickly. IT is almost impossible for any home miners to make an ROI atm and i doubt it will be possible at all by the end of the year unless bitcoin price spikes to at least 800.

That is fiat ROI which basically has no connection with mining whatsoever.  Anybody wanting fiat ROI is always better off buying and just waiting for a BTC price increase.

BTC ROI was possible earlier this year and now seems impossible from any vendor at current prices.  It would be possible if the manufacturers dropped their prices significantly but they have no reason to do so.

[philipma1957]

Sorry to be the bearer of such depressing news but...

The large private datacenters/ASIC manufacturers are so far beyond home miners in every conceivable way. The difficulty will continue to rise long after mining at home is completely unprofitable.

And if/when difficulty starts to decline, it will never again be profitable for home miners to join back in the game because the massive datacenters will ride a thin line of profitability that will exclude everyone else but the most efficient operations.

I have a feeling this is coming pretty quickly. IT is almost impossible for any home miners to make an ROI atm and i doubt it will be possible at all by the end of the year unless bitcoin price spikes to at least 800.

That is fiat ROI which basically has no connection with mining whatsoever.  Anybody wanting fiat ROI is always better off buying and just waiting for a BTC price increase.

BTC ROI was possible earlier this year and now seems impossible from any vendor at current prices.  It would be possible if the manufacturers dropped their prices significantly but they have no reason to do so.

Well buy and hold for fiat roi does not always beat mining.  but If you told me which one I am leaning towards at the moment buy and hold over buy a miner.

[xstr8guy]

Sorry to be the bearer of such depressing news but...

The large private datacenters/ASIC manufacturers are so far beyond home miners in every conceivable way. The difficulty will continue to rise long after mining at home is completely unprofitable.

And if/when difficulty starts to decline, it will never again be profitable for home miners to join back in the game because the massive datacenters will ride a thin line of profitability that will exclude everyone else but the most efficient operations.

I have a feeling this is coming pretty quickly. IT is almost impossible for any home miners to make an ROI atm and i doubt it will be possible at all by the end of the year unless bitcoin price spikes to at least 800.

That is fiat ROI which basically has no connection with mining whatsoever.  Anybody wanting fiat ROI is always better off buying and just waiting for a BTC price increase.

BTC ROI was possible earlier this year and now seems impossible from any vendor at current prices.  It would be possible if the manufacturers dropped their prices significantly but they have no reason to do so.

I can't speak for all miners but a high BTC price would be a massive help for me to continue mining.

I have to sell an ever increasing percentage of my mined BTC every month to pay the electric bill. A higher BTC price means I might be able to mine a few more months and keep more of my BTC.

But realistically, I have almost no hope that we are going to see a significant rise in BTC price over the next few months.

[DrG]

Sorry to be the bearer of such depressing news but...

The large private datacenters/ASIC manufacturers are so far beyond home miners in every conceivable way. The difficulty will continue to rise long after mining at home is completely unprofitable.

And if/when difficulty starts to decline, it will never again be profitable for home miners to join back in the game because the massive datacenters will ride a thin line of profitability that will exclude everyone else but the most efficient operations.

I have a feeling this is coming pretty quickly. IT is almost impossible for any home miners to make an ROI atm and i doubt it will be possible at all by the end of the year unless bitcoin price spikes to at least 800.

That is fiat ROI which basically has no connection with mining whatsoever.  Anybody wanting fiat ROI is always better off buying and just waiting for a BTC price increase.

BTC ROI was possible earlier this year and now seems impossible from any vendor at current prices.  It would be possible if the manufacturers dropped their prices significantly but they have no reason to do so.

Well buy and hold for fiat roi does not always beat mining.  but If you told me which one I am leaning towards at the moment buy and hold over buy a miner.

Buy and hold/sell is always better than mining if the goal is to increase fiat since you will always have liquidity.  Supposed you ordered 20 S3+ last week and Bitcoin just shot up to $1200.  If you bought the coins you could dump them for $1200 and have a guaranteed 2.5x profit while you would still be waiting on the S3+s to mint coins.

It is possible for the miners to pay back more BTC (as in BTC ROI), but for fiat pure liquidity is crucial and buying hardware doesn't allow exchange arbitrage or following P&D.

[mikerbiker6]

you can make easy roi, just use bitcoin miners as space heaters. You need that anyway.

[MilesJohan]

you can make easy roi, just use bitcoin miners as space heaters. You need that anyway.

I believe a real space heaters is more efficient, but I might be wrong.

[Nagle]

That is fiat ROI which basically has no connection with mining whatsoever. 

"Fiat ROI" is what it's all about.  Speculation and mining are different businesses. One party can do both, but you have to account for them separately or you're deluding yourself.

[mmeijeri]

Well said.