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Author Topic: HyperStake Development Journal (HDJ)  (Read 18036 times)
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October 24, 2014, 02:33:45 AM
 #81

I think we need to develop a catalogue of our potential users, so-called customer portrait, with their faces, average backgrounds, life priorities and values etc. Then we will see who do we aim for. This coin needs marketing. If we want merchants to notice us, we need to have a production form ASAP. Otherwise we will stay a coin on the development shelf forever (and probably will be outcompeted). There were some associations in Polo trollbox.
A quick questionnaire on IRC showed yesterday that most HYPsters are in the 30-40. So, older than the usual crypto demographics. That's a start os statistics.

Also, speaking of statistics, presstab just posted this graph of the difficulty:

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October 24, 2014, 03:08:41 AM
 #82

Is there any special cause for that spike in difficulty?

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October 24, 2014, 03:58:44 AM
 #83

Is there any special cause for that spike in difficulty?

Good question. One thing you can immediately see, is that HYP diff is in waves. Up and down. This was caused by the fork we had, where all of the age was concentrated in one particular time. After block 90,000 the "natural" wave got worse, I think because of price increasing and more people destroying age to cash out, and that two of the top wallets accidentally destroyed their age and had to start back from 0 age.

I would say that there is a good chance that the recent spike is due to price coming back down to earth, and less pressure to cash out and more pressure to stake.

Of course other things are possible too. With an expanding money supply, difficulty should go up overtime naturally.

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October 25, 2014, 04:23:39 AM
 #84

Is there any special cause for that spike in difficulty?

Good question. One thing you can immediately see, is that HYP diff is in waves. Up and down. This was caused by the fork we had, where all of the age was concentrated in one particular time. After block 90,000 the "natural" wave got worse, I think because of price increasing and more people destroying age to cash out, and that two of the top wallets accidentally destroyed their age and had to start back from 0 age.

I would say that there is a good chance that the recent spike is due to price coming back down to earth, and less pressure to cash out and more pressure to stake.

Of course other things are possible too. With an expanding money supply, difficulty should go up overtime naturally.


Thank you for that answer! Very informative.  Smiley

Also brought a whole new headache senario thinking that the diff will be lowest when there is most incentive to cash out price wise.

I know I will be debating with myself whether to stake at low diff or sell during the next spike..  Roll Eyes

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October 25, 2014, 08:40:10 PM
 #85

We incessantly repeat that PoS is first and foremost a mining method, an alternative to PoW without the megawatts - see bitcarbon.org for the ecological footprint of PoW.
Like PoW, PoS aims to ensure decentralised network security and meritocratic distribution of the tokens (the more you mine/stack, the more your chances to get a token).
And, like PoW, the mining, if successful, become more and more competitive. Solo mining is over for all but the most powerful miners (professional ASIC farms). If you want to have a decent chance to get some tokens in a reasonable time frame, you increasingly have to resort to pool mining.

And that's the same thing with a successful PoS coin like HyperStake. High-profile stackers, which have huge "mining power" (i.e. a lot of block for stacking) can get most of the reward. This will discourage lower miners to ever try to stake(I still remember the early days of Monero, before there is a pool). This could ultimately killing the coin - like in nature, an apex predator kills its ecosystem). That's another rich man's problem that I was not even aware of, so thank you Kushed (and mtwelve, the originator of the idea) to point it out and... to give a solution.

The same way small shareholders in a company unite as an "association of small shareholders",
the same way small miners in a PoW crypto unite in a pool mining,
we are proud to introduce the very first (to our knowledge) pool mining for proof-of-stake, HyperPool.

This is very early, it is mostly manual for the moment and in order to scale, it will have to be automated. Still, I believe it is a great news for HyperStake, because it means that we grown successful enough to have a need for such a tool and that this tool will keep the coin viable. Once multisend will be implemented (and presstab is working on it), there will be an option to send part or all of your "mining power" (staking power) to the HyperPool (the option called "PoolStaking" in the mockup).

I love these experiments! HYPxperiments!

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October 26, 2014, 01:59:35 PM
 #86

We have more ideas than abilities for the moments. I said before that I like to kill several birds with one stone; I also like to avoid reinventing the wheel.

I would like we focus on working in tandem with other coin when it will makes us grow stronger. Here are the one I identified:


Opinions?

Awe thank you for giving us an honorable mention.   Smiley

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October 27, 2014, 12:03:21 AM
 #87

We have more ideas than abilities for the moments. I said before that I like to kill several birds with one stone; I also like to avoid reinventing the wheel.

I would like we focus on working in tandem with other coin when it will makes us grow stronger. Here are the one I identified:


Opinions?

Awe thank you for giving us an honorable mention.   Smiley

You have been about the most enthusiastic supporter of the concept of cryptocurrency, with little favoritism, that I've encountered. I, for one, am glad you're here.

Buy Bitcoins with Paypal, Credit card, or other methods. Send me a PM or a text to 208-451-2665.
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October 29, 2014, 11:51:47 AM
 #88

Soon (Zer0Sum said 6th of December), the second inflation control mechanism, max generation, will kick in. Max generation ensures that no more than 960 000 coins are generated each day. So, except if the amount of stackers goes down a lot, the days of 750% APR will be gone and HYP will have a more traditionnal 200% (then 100%, 50%, 33% after fourth year...)
 the difficulty will begin to rise quicker than it is now. So you will either have to keep smaller blocks, or bite the bullet and use larger blocks that will stake faster and hit the ceiling. The rate is only changed for those that decide to go for the faster stake. (correction by presstab).

Which consequences for the coin? What follows is pure speculation from me:
  • Temporary price increase as we approach the "block halving" (which is technically not a block halving). Then dump just after then correction to a more regular price, which might be lower or higher than the current price - I do not know how block halving translates for other coins' economies.
  • Accusations of fastmine
  • Less interest for what is suddenly "just another TRK/CAP" - This means that we then must communicate on everything else than high interest rate, like HyperPool (the most important), HyperLoan, advanced coin control, other features we will have...
  • A stop at the increase of difficulty, since staking is not that interesting anymore - except if the price rises
  • Others?

And you, how do you see the effects of max generation?

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October 30, 2014, 03:12:01 PM
 #89

There has been a lot of talk recently about this "max generation" limit. Here are the numbers I think we should be basing our analysis on.

At the moment of writing this:
The last 960 blocks added 500,014 HYP, average of 521 per stake
Last 6720 blocks added 3,397,835 HYP average of 505 per stake
Last 28,800 blocks have added 11,901,493 HYP, average of 413 per stake

The max generation by definition is when each stake will be 1,000 HYP, thus hitting the ceiling each time. Right now we are about halfway to max generation.  I don't think we will hit max generation for a long time, because people will always be trying to size their blocks small enough to get rewards that are less than 1,000. I think what really is going to happen is that there will be a fight to stay under max generation, this will mean smaller blocks, and smaller blocks will mean higher difficulty.

So best thing is to keep an eye on difficulty for now.

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October 30, 2014, 07:05:29 PM
 #90

I think what HYP is shown is that community activity is #1. Who'd have thunk it? Tongue
That community involvement only matters in the long run if there is also a good technical background. Doge only has the first one and, especially after Zer0sum's post on the ANN, I'd like to believe we have both Smiley
The max generation by definition is when each stake will be 1,000 HYP, thus hitting the ceiling each time. Right now we are about halfway to max generation.  I don't think we will hit max generation for a long time, because people will always be trying to size their blocks small enough to get rewards that are less than 1,000. I think what really is going to happen is that there will be a fight to stay under max generation, this will mean smaller blocks, and smaller blocks will mean higher difficulty.

So best thing is to keep an eye on difficulty for now.
Interesting. This would mean the network will become more and more secure with time. So the HyperStake network could be used for 2.0 uses (storing data like contracts, for instance). I like it.

Update: I edited the Wikia article on max generation.

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November 03, 2014, 10:20:29 PM
 #91

Posted on Polo:

Quote
Let me tell you how awesome the HYP community is. We long planned to set up a multipool for HYP, we needed 0.75 BTC. We got them in 20 minutes. Now THAT'S a community. HYPsters are in for the long haul, not for the bubble.

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November 29, 2014, 01:46:22 PM
 #92

Excerpt from my post on the ANN Inflation control and network security

Quote
What is this "security of the network" thing? To understand it and why it matters, a bit of background in necessary here.
Contrary to proof-of-work, where the security of the network comes from miners using electricity to solve complex algorithms (like SHA256 for bitcoin, scrypt for Litecoin, X11 for Truckoin, the mother coin of HyperStake...), proof-of-stake only simulates these calculations. It requires much less electricity and can be done on a regular computer, which is much better for the planet (one of the main selling point of Peercoin, the first proof-of-stake) and is also better for fighting "mining centralisation" (where basically miners are more and more professionals and less and less ordinary citizens - the opposite of the dream of Satoshi in 2009).
Both PoW and PoS are meant to ensure the security of the network. A common misconception is that mining (and its PoS equivalent, staking) is meant to give you more money. This is not the case and the confusion is understandable, since the real-world mining (mining ore like gold and silver) is really meant for just for that - moar munnies. Instead, the real goal of PoW and PoS is to secure the network, to be sure that the network is reliable and can be trusted. The reward (block) is really only an economical incentive to encourage people to secure the network. Once again: goal is security; reward is just an incentive. When you mine a bitcoin (or stake a hyperstake), this is only the network telling you "thank you for securing me". That's all. Satoshi solved the Byzantine Generals problem by introducing an economic incentive to cryptography.
In cryptocurrency, security comes from... greed.

And a thought I had after reading Nicolas Courtois on Bitcoin:
Quote
[satoshi] forgot to create monetary incentives for people to run bitcoin nodes and their number (some 5,000) is  MUCH LOWER than the number of bitcoin miners (maybe 100,000). Bitcoin peer network is in steady decline and at dangerously low levels!

No such problem with HyperStake, where incentive to run HyperStake node is present (as long as HyperPool and future clones do not become prevalent). This is something we should advertise.

In any case, since for HyperStake (except for HyperPool), "mining is noding", this should not be an issue.[/quote]

We recently reached an all-time-high of 5.3 in diff. Which is extremely high for PoS. Since HYP is pure PoS, the fact that it is very low compared to PoW difficulty doesn't mean much (for a hybrid PoW/PoS, that would be a different matter).

Note: we are considering implementing a feature to smoothen the diff. Sure, 5.3 is nice, but this is a peak, with high volatility (approximately 50%) in diff. Since a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, we shall consider the current low point more than the ATH. Smoothening the diff is a way to address the issue of volatility. Consequence: we'll probably not break the ATH anytime soon once the smoothening is implemented but all in all, the network will still be more secure.

In other words:

1. Taking control over the HyperStake network would be hard. It has the highest PoS security in the world (and can't be attacked with PoW)
2. HyperStake intrinsically ensures more node-per-miner than even Bitcoin, so more security

That being said, pure PoS runs the risk of the rentier system, because it reduces upward mobility. Since in pure PoS, "holding is hashing", once you're at the top, you're pretty sure to stay at the top. Barring laziness (not running your wallet), the only way for coin repartition to change is to buy and sell. A motivated actor refusing to sell at any price could get 51% of the staking power and keep it. Granted, the same could hold true for PoW, but in order to maintain leadership, such an actor would have to spend money to constantly buy more hashing power - whilst for PoS, there would be no such need of spending more money, of "running to stand still" - a variant of the longstanding "nothing-at-stake" issue.
PoS coins, fiat coins, always end with centralization because, as I have said, once someone, or some nation, gains majority possession of the units of money, they control the currency forever.
To sum it up: on a technical standpoint, the HyperStake network is very strong. But on a governance standpoint, there are some concerns.

Any ideas about how to address this governance concern?
Any ideas about how to market the high diff?

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November 29, 2014, 05:28:40 PM
 #93

That being said, pure PoS runs the risk of the rentier system, because it reduces upward mobility. Since in pure PoS, "holding is hashing", once you're at the top, you're pretty sure to stay at the top.

Honestly, I think high PoS solves this problem. Instead of people with lots of PoW hashing power being the largest whales, those that are in it the longest are. And even so, it seems like HYP has had a great distribution of coins compared to other coins with smaller pos, fast premines, etc.

Quote from: kingpin69  date=1417230668

top 10 wallets as a percentage of overall coins...

M - (Maieutcoin) top 10 wallets own 56.98% of the total coin supply
XQN (Quotient) - top 10 wallets own  48.11% of the total coin supply
CAP (Bottlecaps) - top 10 wallets own 38.0% of the total coin supply
BALLS (Snowballs) - top 10 wallets own 37.7% of the total coin supply
HBN (Hobonickels) - top 10 wallets own 30.44% of the total coin supply
JPC (Spoetniks oh so great jackpotcoin) top 10 wallets own 28.30% of the total coin supply
HYP (Hyperstake) - top 10 wallets own 22.0% of the total coin supply

HYP's PoS economics gives the ability to mint coins, to anybody that has a bit of patience, the willingness to build a proper portfolio composition of coin blocks, and the ability to connect to the network often. The barrier to entry to mine/mint HYP is very low.

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December 01, 2014, 04:22:38 PM
 #94

That being said, pure PoS runs the risk of the rentier system, because it reduces upward mobility. Since in pure PoS, "holding is hashing", once you're at the top, you're pretty sure to stay at the top.

Honestly, I think high PoS solves this problem. Instead of people with lots of PoW hashing power being the largest whales, those that are in it the longest are. And even so, it seems like HYP has had a great distribution of coins compared to other coins with smaller pos, fast premines, etc.
Your miner ends up being outdated by a stronger one and you must buy it to not be left behind. "Running to stand still".
With PoS, and particularly high-PoS, this is "sitting to stand still".

Quote from: kingpin69  date=1417230668

top 10 wallets as a percentage of overall coins...

M - (Maieutcoin) top 10 wallets own 56.98% of the total coin supply
XQN (Quotient) - top 10 wallets own  48.11% of the total coin supply
CAP (Bottlecaps) - top 10 wallets own 38.0% of the total coin supply
BALLS (Snowballs) - top 10 wallets own 37.7% of the total coin supply
HBN (Hobonickels) - top 10 wallets own 30.44% of the total coin supply
JPC (Spoetniks oh so great jackpotcoin) top 10 wallets own 28.30% of the total coin supply
HYP (Hyperstake) - top 10 wallets own 22.0% of the total coin supply

HYP's PoS economics gives the ability to mint coins, to anybody that has a bit of patience, the willingness to build a proper portfolio composition of coin blocks, and the ability to connect to the network often. The barrier to entry to mine/mint HYP is very low.
This is orthogonal. HYP has a nicer distribution (and we should capitalise on it) but correlation is not causation.
I do agree, though, that high-PoS rewards patience. Maybe this is a reason why it is not popular in the ADHD populace of trading. Hopefully, delivering products taking advantage of high-PoS like HyperJobs and promoting stake-and-cash will help.

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December 07, 2014, 06:30:54 PM
 #95

A list of things being considered, going on or already done. This list does not attempt to be exhaustive and was first written on the ANN.

  • Multisend (http://hyperstake.wikia.com/wiki/Multisend) (GUI not done yet)
  • Triggers (http://hyperstake.wikia.com/wiki/Triggers)
  • Fully functional in wallet block explorer and rich list
  • Automating HyperPool (HAT, HyperPool Automation Tool) (not before long)
  • RPC cointrol (allows coin control without a GUI)
  • Improving code by closing the gap between Bitcoin and HyperStake (Bitcoin => Peercoin => Novacoin => Bottlecaps => Mintcoin => XCurrency => Truckcoin => HyperStake)]
  • HyperWallet (webwallet, functional specifications done)
  • HyperOTC (automated OTC à la XCash)
  • Announcing HyperSanta Christmas distribution (El_Kabong)
  • Continuing HyperDeck (iantunc, could you open a wikia entry?)
  • Longterm considerations for hyperstake.com (marketplace, integration of HyperPool and HyperWallet...)
  • Translating the wallet
  • HyperStats - gathering and analysing stats, maybe even a Gini index to promote the nice distribution of HYP and a presentation as outstanding as Hans Rosling's
  • New OP with a multi-column appearance
  • Tipbot for reddit and possibly Twitter and Facebook
  • [speculative] automated transactions
  • [speculative] transaction messages
  • disablestake if X, to reduce diff volatility
  • built-in new version notification system for new wallet version
  • [speculative] CYIAM (there is a bounty) or HyperParty (à la DogeParty)
  • [speculative] Smart contracts
  • mnemonic seed, à la Electrum or Monero

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December 07, 2014, 06:41:24 PM
 #96

Feature: disablestake if X

Issue: Difficulty is a roller-coaster, with up to 50% volatility and a noticeable unpredictability. I believe this reduces confidence in HyperStake.
Solution: The solution presstab just finished coding is this: thanks to a RPC call (later, it could be a checkbox option), one can deactivate staking (even if wallet is unlocked or unlocked for mint) once the difficulty reaches a certain treshold. It does cost the holder some profit (by delaying it) so this is not "good" for the staker, but in exchange, it reduces the network difficulty by zeroing this address's weight and thus reducing the overall network weight, hence the diff. So, it is a "lose-win" solution, bad for the individual, but good for the network. This is why it is a voluntary action and it only makes sense to activate it for large holders (if you are not a large holder, stop staking would have a negligeable impact on diff, whilst still having a major impact on you).
Ways for improvement: checkbox activation, conditional activation according to history of network weight, conditional activation according to percentage of total coins in one address, moving from opt-in to opt-out (i.e. activated by default), lowerstake instead of disablestake.
Notes: other usecases are possible (like staking only above a certain diff to protect against attack), but may be incompatible with the ways for improvements.

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December 07, 2014, 08:01:00 PM
 #97


You guys love to talk... but none of your bolt-ons have added value to the coin.

Why would a few $0.75 loans in a "currency" whose inflation is running at 10,000% have value?
Or endless theme stuff... I can download 50 wallets in one day if I'm hot for theme wallets.

Please note that barely-in-beta-testing SuperNET is worth $3,200,000...
And HYP with "features galore" is worth $87,000 at the time of this post...
Do you have some Master Plan for next summer when we have 200,000,000 HYP @ 25 sats = $50,000?

So you have a very secure, reliable network with a good community worth $87,000...
Build something on top of it that AN ADULT WOULD BUILD... something that generates revenue...
Presstab worked on NXT... go look at NXT and pick something.

Think bigger! You can build ANYTHING on top of this  Smiley Smiley Smiley
David Latapie
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December 07, 2014, 09:40:10 PM
 #98

You guys love to talk... but none of your bolt-ons have added value to the coin.
You remember this tagline we keep mentionning? HYP is an ex-pe-ri-ment.
Experiments are not meant to bring monetary value (if they do, so much the better, but that's all). And so far, most of what we experimented have not been done before us. So HYP is already a success. Even you admitted it, and compared to other high-PoS, we certainly pushed the enveloppe in terms of community and innovations (most advanced coin control, poolstaking, themable wallets, adaptative difficulty, staking tools, live community, retribution scheme... all of this being delivered and not just promises - let alone what we are working on and do not publicise before release).

So, what else to ask? Oh, yes, money. Look for short-term scamcoins on Bittrex then. To each its own, and us is experimenting.

I have a question, though: since you are a trader, you shall know that developers have no influence on price, right? So why do you even ask?
(update: most NXT's assets are a fail, exactly like most altcoins - plus, the core idea behind HYP is to push PoS to its limit - which is better done with a platform that we know)

Monero: the first crytocurrency to bring bank secrecy and net neutrality to the blockchain.HyperStake: pushing the limits of staking.
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inigthz
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December 08, 2014, 03:00:24 AM
 #99

Can you tell me, how to manage staking?? each block should be.. xxx.

Because i'm staking more than 2 month in vps, nonstop, till now.
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December 08, 2014, 05:03:34 AM
 #100


You guys love to talk... but none of your bolt-ons have added value to the coin.

Why would a few $0.75 loans in a "currency" whose inflation is running at 10,000% have value?
Or endless theme stuff... I can download 50 wallets in one day if I'm hot for theme wallets.

Please note that barely-in-beta-testing SuperNET is worth $3,200,000...
And HYP with "features galore" is worth $87,000 at the time of this post...
Do you have some Master Plan for next summer when we have 200,000,000 HYP @ 25 sats = $50,000?

So you have a very secure, reliable network with a good community worth $87,000...
Build something on top of it that AN ADULT WOULD BUILD... something that generates revenue...
Presstab worked on NXT... go look at NXT and pick something.

Think bigger! You can build ANYTHING on top of this  Smiley Smiley Smiley


Its not about exchange rate. If thats what you are looking for go find a dev team that is also a pump team.

Quote
Presstab worked on NXT... go look at NXT and pick something.

Maybe I am not reading that correctly... but I never "worked on NXT"....

Quote
Build something on top of it that AN ADULT WOULD BUILD... something that generates revenue...
Build it yourself

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