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Author Topic: Borrowing to Fund BTC  (Read 2558 times)
V8x8d
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September 17, 2014, 12:03:49 PM
 #1

Has anyone ever borrowed money to buy Bitcoin and then moved countries/declared bankruptcy? I knew an Australian that came over to the UK to do that and then returned home knowing that he wouldn't be chased for the debt (he seemed quite smug about it).
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September 17, 2014, 12:07:10 PM
 #2

Can't say I have ever or would ever do this and I don't know anyone that ever has, it seems pretty sly in my opinion and only something people who thought and knew they could get away with it would do.

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September 17, 2014, 12:09:01 PM
 #3

I never said that I endorsed it.
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September 17, 2014, 12:26:26 PM
 #4

I dont endorse this but i would like if someone has been success full at this.
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September 17, 2014, 01:03:26 PM
 #5

Im sure it possible it can be done, even though at some places it harder now to claim bankruptcy, im sure with no paper trail there is possible success in doing so.

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V8x8d
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September 17, 2014, 01:57:34 PM
 #6

People have a strange perspective on how efficient banks are. I have worked in an accounts department for a major bank and there was no attempt to collect closed accounts (never mind those residing in foreign countries). Post to bad debts, roll up and write-off each quarter. You have to remember that all accounts have a 90 tolerance or this will be included in the 'Value at Risk'.
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September 17, 2014, 04:11:41 PM
 #7

This would be a cool script for a movie.
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September 17, 2014, 04:38:26 PM
 #8

You can never really "get away with it" because the guilt/shame will have an effect on your character/emotions.

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September 17, 2014, 04:45:42 PM
 #9

You can never really "get away with it" because the guilt/shame will have an effect on your character/emotions.

In the same way that HSBC feel "guilt and shame" for money laundering billions for Mexican cartels. And the same way that payday loan companies make 3000% APR on their loans. etc.

Although I wouldn't do this (for fear of getting caught mainly), if someone were to get away with it I don't think they should feel shameful or guilty for stealing from far bigger thieves than themselves.

Guess I'll make that my sig, all the cool kids have one...
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September 17, 2014, 04:51:10 PM
 #10

You can never really "get away with it" because the guilt/shame will have an effect on your character/emotions.

You couldnt be more wrong. Altho it may be true to some weak people, i know a bunch of people that
are doing insane stuff without any remorse.
The whole point is to trick the system, and if you manage to do that, good for you.
I would never endorse cheating a little man for a 100$ , but to cheat high roller for 10k.. i would be tempted

blatchcorn
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September 17, 2014, 05:10:59 PM
 #11

People have a strange perspective on how efficient banks are. I have worked in an accounts department for a major bank and there was no attempt to collect closed accounts (never mind those residing in foreign countries). Post to bad debts, roll up and write-off each quarter. You have to remember that all accounts have a 90 tolerance or this will be included in the 'Value at Risk'.
Can you please explain about this more?  What is a 90 tolerance?


 
 
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September 17, 2014, 05:37:06 PM
 #12

This isn't an option for me because I have no plans to move to a new country any time soon.  I doubt most people would uproot their whole lives just to acquire some Bitcoins.  If I was planning a major move I'd give it some consideration, however it would have to be a bank that deserves to be stolen from not some local credit union.  Grin
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September 17, 2014, 05:44:06 PM
 #13

You can never really "get away with it" because the guilt/shame will have an effect on your character/emotions.

You couldnt be more wrong. Altho it may be true to some weak people, i know a bunch of people that
are doing insane stuff without any remorse.
The whole point is to trick the system, and if you manage to do that, good for you.
I would never endorse cheating a little man for a 100$ , but to cheat high roller for 10k.. i would be tempted

The whole point is to trick the system...
No, the whole point is to do better/aim higher than people who trick the system.
You seem to be equating honesty and integrity with "weak people", and perhaps your opinion "couldn't be more wrong"?  Tongue

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September 17, 2014, 05:52:47 PM
 #14

This works as long as there is a fool willing to lend money to buy bitcoin. Which is an utterly ridiculous concept to start with.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in ICELAND - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1610684
V8x8d
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September 17, 2014, 06:06:09 PM
 #15

This works as long as there is a fool willing to lend money to buy bitcoin. Which is an utterly ridiculous concept to start with.

If I got a personal loan or a credit card from a bank I could buy anything with it. The days of needing a good credit rating have long gone (you only need a pulse these days).
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September 17, 2014, 06:14:03 PM
 #16

People have a strange perspective on how efficient banks are. I have worked in an accounts department for a major bank and there was no attempt to collect closed accounts (never mind those residing in foreign countries). Post to bad debts, roll up and write-off each quarter. You have to remember that all accounts have a 90 tolerance or this will be included in the 'Value at Risk'.
Can you please explain about this more?  What is a 90 tolerance?

The debt can no longer remain on the balance sheet after being outstanding for 90 days or it will damage the banks credit rating (VAR). Once posted to the Profit & Loss account (after 90 days) it will no longer be visible and therefore nobody will investigate the debt.
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September 17, 2014, 07:57:54 PM
 #17

This works as long as there is a fool willing to lend money to buy bitcoin. Which is an utterly ridiculous concept to start with.

If I got a personal loan or a credit card from a bank I could buy anything with it. The days of needing a good credit rating have long gone (you only need a pulse these days).

True. But the banks and credit companies know exactly who you are and how to get you if you go deadbeat. The bank won't forget or give up. They will sell your debt to a collector who may make your life hell until you pay. A bitcoin loan has no such mechanism to follow up with. Even if you go to the police they won't know what your talking about.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in ICELAND - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1610684
V8x8d
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September 17, 2014, 10:33:02 PM
 #18

This works as long as there is a fool willing to lend money to buy bitcoin. Which is an utterly ridiculous concept to start with.

If I got a personal loan or a credit card from a bank I could buy anything with it. The days of needing a good credit rating have long gone (you only need a pulse these days).

True. But the banks and credit companies know exactly who you are and how to get you if you go deadbeat. The bank won't forget or give up. They will sell your debt to a collector who may make your life hell until you pay. A bitcoin loan has no such mechanism to follow up with. Even if you go to the police they won't know what your talking about.

OK, let's say I borrowed £10,000 today and next year moved to Australia:

(1) To my knowledge debt is not a crime, just a poor decision.
(2) The debt would only stay on my UK credit history for 5 years.
(2) The credit histories in the UK/Australia are completely different + the UK Data Protection Act prevents the transfer of this information. So seeking credit in the future should be fine.
(3) UK consumer debt cannot be enforced in Australia, despite what the debt agents may claim. Such claims have no jurisdiction beyond English borders. This would be different if the two countries were in the EU.

I know from working in the accounts department at a large bank that they have no legal redress to reclaim debts when you have emigrated to another country. They could sell the debt, however the new debt holder will merely be bluffing you for repayment. I posted these to the Profit & Loss account.

FYI, I would have no qualms about doing this myself as I have seen enough incidents of mis-selling (fraud) in my time working at a bank.
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September 19, 2014, 12:07:42 AM
 #19

You could just spend that time and energy on your education, you would probably make more money anyhow haha.

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leannemckim46
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September 19, 2014, 10:08:14 PM
 #20

People have a strange perspective on how efficient banks are. I have worked in an accounts department for a major bank and there was no attempt to collect closed accounts (never mind those residing in foreign countries). Post to bad debts, roll up and write-off each quarter. You have to remember that all accounts have a 90 tolerance or this will be included in the 'Value at Risk'.
Can you please explain about this more?  What is a 90 tolerance?

The debt can no longer remain on the balance sheet after being outstanding for 90 days or it will damage the banks credit rating (VAR). Once posted to the Profit & Loss account (after 90 days) it will no longer be visible and therefore nobody will investigate the debt.
This is not true. After 90 days the debt would be considered to be "bad" and the value of the debt should be written down to the value of the collateral (if any). If there is no collateral then it should be written down to zero. However the bank should still attempt to collect on it, and any "recovery" that collections department is able to make on such debt would be counted as income to the bank.

To answer the OP's question, yes this is possible (but no I do not know anyone who has done this). One issue with declaring bankruptcy in the US is that when you declare bankruptcy, a bankruptcy will investigate your assets and finances and if they determine that you have assets then you would need to give the assets to the trustee (that would give to your creditors). If you do not give your assets to the trustee then you would not receive a discharge (the result would be that it would be as if you never filed bankruptcy). If you lie to the trustee about your assets (you likely need to make a statement under oath as to what assets you have) then you would be risking potential jail time.

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