Are People Still Care about Bitcoin?

[johncarpe64]

All the things you mentioned above does not worth my money to be put in. I'm still waiting for real true innovation over bitcoin for the end users, not slight pointless back ends improvements.

You are not going to find an altcoin that cures cancer when users mine or when they spend their coins.

I would not hold your breath for any kind of innovation in the scamcoin market

[1714054479]

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[1714054479]

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[CoinHoarder]

All the things you mentioned above does not worth my money to be put in. I'm still waiting for real true innovation over bitcoin for the end users, not slight pointless back ends improvements.

I know a lot of you old school Bitcoiners feel this way, but there are a lot of people that do want these things, as is evidenced by the amounts of money Alt coin projects have raised and the current valuations of some of the alt coin projects as well. If you don't want to use a feature, then you do not have to use it.

I think this statement is laughable as if you ignore everything else, faster block times, less Blockchain bloat, and more anonymity are much needed features. If you don't think these things are truly innovative, then it is very hard to impress you and I'm afraid you might not ever be impressed by anything. So in that sense, we should just stop dating Bitcoin, right?

It makes no sense... This goes along my line of reasoning of why Bitcoin is doomed, because sadly most of the old time Bitcoin supporters think like this. The general public loves things that are quicker, easier to use, and things that have more features. Why do you think smart phones replaced regular phones, why iPod touch replaced the original iPod, and vehicles come with more features today than ever before?

[CoinHoarder]

All the things you mentioned above does not worth my money to be put in. I'm still waiting for real true innovation over bitcoin for the end users, not slight pointless back ends improvements.

You are not going to find an altcoin that cures cancer when users mine or when they spend their coins.

I deleted your second comment as it was ignorant, but this is exactly my point. Old school Bitcoiners are so terribly hard to impress and think Bitcoin is fine the way it is. All innovations and improvements are considered as unnecessary or gimmicks. It is ridiculous, you guys need to learn to embrace innovation or else you could find yourselves dethroned as he king of cryptos. No matter how small or little an innovation can be any improvement is a step forward, it may not be a leap forward or a mile, but it is a step in the right direction.

[CoinHoarder]

Crypto note coins, built in decentralized coin join implementations, stealth addresses implementations, and Zerocoin - Improve financial privacy and protect the end users from the dangers of poor financial privacy practices. Sure, Bitcoin can do some of the things I mentioned but they are not done by default and built into the client. Some people will never fully understand the dangers of poor financial privacy practices, so it is best that the protocol forces them to do it. Most Bitcoin implementations of these technologies require trusted third parties since they are not built directly into the protocol, and/or are not done automatically.

The blockchain as it is now provides a certain level of transparency that is not available with zerocoin. Your argument is that you want to protect people from themselves. However they have the right to make their own choices regarding privacy.

I understand the want to prove a transaction took place, and that is why I included multiple technologies in my statement, I am not sure why you picked Zerocoin as the only answer to improve privacy. You can prove in an audit or whatever that certain transactions took place with stealth addresses, ring signatures, and coin join implementations. You can also make them optional features.

Aliases - making it easy to send and receive currency without the need for long nonsensical addresses. Again, it is possible for Bitcoin to implement this but most solutions I've seen rely on trusted third parties and.are not automatically done within the client.

This contradicts your above point. This is also horribly insecure and opens up a lot of possible scams. (people could make an alias that is similar to a major merchant or to a charity and get a lot of scamcoins as a result).

You have a point about insecurity/scams, but I think a certain balance can be made there.. For instance along with having an alias having a SHORT string before or after it that is generated automatically and the user cannot control. This would give added security, and I think there are ways to implement it that highlight benefits and limit the negatives.

However, the use of aliases does not contradict my point for the need for more privacy, as stealth addresses, ring signatures, and coin join implementations can still be used.

Confirmation speeds - Some alts have been redesigned from the ground up to incur quicker block times faster than Bitcoin could without being completely redesigned. Some go much further than simply changing a line of code like Litecoin did.

Faster confirmation speeds make the blockchain less secure. A unconfirmed transaction with bitcoin would be more secure then a 1 confirmation transaction with a 1 minute confirmation blockchain (this assumes that the hashrate is the same between the two blockchains, however miners would almost certainly favor the 10 minute blockchain due to a more acceptable expected value of orphans).

Quicker block times make the Blockchain less secure... Only in the way Bitcoin has implemented it. So, although it is true the coins that just copy Bitcoin and speed up the block times... Their confirmations are less secure yes.chowever, some alt coins have completely redesigned this and have quicker block times that share the same security of a Bitcoin transaction, in some cases even more.

Block chain bloat - By using ledgers and truncating the block chain after it reaches a certain size, some crypto have dramatically reduced the amount of data one would need.to download to run a full node, making it more likely people will do so.

bitcoin is not at the point now that this is necessary. Most nodes are run on some kind of server withe the ability to easily and quickly download the blockchain.

Bitcoin may not be at the point where it is needed, but as someone that prefers to run a full node on his desktop, I can see how this would be a huge benefit. The Bitcoin block chain takes forever to download and sync, and it will only get worse. There are alternative clients which solve this in various ways, but it should be a built in feature to the official client.

Reducing exposure to volatility - Through the use.of decentralized assets that are market pegged to more stable currencies through a decentralized free market, allowing people to hedge against bubbles in a decentralized manner without trusted third parties and allowing the the benefits of cryptocurrency in the former of a stable currency.

This would not be an altcoin, it would be an IOU for the asset that backs the altcoin.

I doubt you're familiar with BitsharesX, but you should look into how they've implemented it in a trustless manner. FIAT and commodity side chains are built into the client and you can trade them on a decentralized market in the client. The FIAT and commodities are backed by the Cryptocurrency as collateral is held. The price is determined on the free market by people going short and long on assets. This is IMO one of the biggest innovations in the cryptocoin space in quite some time.

The decentralized exchange of commodities which are also market pegged to the value of those commodities through a decentralized exchange without the need.of trusted.third parties

I am not sure I follow this but I am sure (based on your other arguments) that it is a bad idea

You don't understand it, but you assume it's a bad idea. Mmmmk lol. How about you educate yourself before judging an idea. Research BitSharesX.

Decentralized asset exchanges which make it easy to receive funding for ideas and businesses without the regulations, taxes, and paperwork the legacy security system requires.

All of the above are good for an economy in small, healthy amounts. If you were to have zero of the above then you would have an economy full of scams and streets full of "danger"/violent crime

This is assuming that we need governments to hold our hands while investing, and it cannot be done any other way. Whenever you put the government in control of anything they always find ways to screw it up . In this case through convoluted application processes, expensive paperwork and legal fees, and onerous taxes. Go see how expensive it is to start a security and get investors on your own... I guess you prefer the rich get richer and the middle class and lower class stay where they are at indefintely?

Truly deflationary cryptocoins - Whereas Bitcoin will be inflationary well past our entire lives, and the value of which is sustained through the inflow of new money into the ecosystem

the only people who think deflation is a good thing in an economy does not have a good understanding of economics

Deflation is a good thing when it comes to a store of value. The fact it can double as a checking account is just the icing on top.

Decentralized data storage - protecting our data and privacy better than trusted third parties can.

Decentralized programming languages - making it easier to program decentralized programs and services, lessening humanity's need to trust third parties.

A lot of things can be decentralized through the use.of block chain technologies and I'm not going to list them all.

it is not always best to have all functions decentralized. Sometimes it is good to have some central authority that can make changes based on the environment

I can't believe someone in Bitcoinland is promoting the use of trusted third parties. I guess you will learn your lesson one day...

I'm not sure what you mean about "make changes based on the environment."

[knight22]

All the things you mentioned above does not worth my money to be put in. I'm still waiting for real true innovation over bitcoin for the end users, not slight pointless back ends improvements.

You are not going to find an altcoin that cures cancer when users mine or when they spend their coins.

I deleted your second comment as it was ignorant, but this is exactly my point. Old school Bitcoiners are so terribly hard to impress and think Bitcoin is fine the way it is. All innovations and improvements are considered as unnecessary or gimmicks. It is ridiculous, you guys need to learn to embrace innovation or else you could find yourselves dethroned as he king of cryptos. No matter how small or little an innovation can be any improvement is a step forward, it may not be a leap forward or a mile, but it is a step in the right direction.

This is just not true. The reality is that there is no innovation yet in the altcoin world that worth enough for all the infrastructures built around the bitcoin's protocol to massively switch to another protocol. To break this network effect it will require a great level of features, that can't be implemented into the bitcoin's protocol, for the END USERS. End users don't care about back end technicalities even if they are better in some way. For this very reason most altcoins are doomed to be a craze for butthurt miners and clueless speculators. I suspect that specific coins that do specific things for specific markets will emerge but we have a long way to go before any altcoin proves itself enough to beat up bitcoin's network effect.

[nextblast]

Answer is simple: yes.

[johncarpe64]

All the things you mentioned above does not worth my money to be put in. I'm still waiting for real true innovation over bitcoin for the end users, not slight pointless back ends improvements.

You are not going to find an altcoin that cures cancer when users mine or when they spend their coins.

I deleted your second comment as it was ignorant, but this is exactly my point. Old school Bitcoiners are so terribly hard to impress and think Bitcoin is fine the way it is. All innovations and improvements are considered as unnecessary or gimmicks. It is ridiculous, you guys need to learn to embrace innovation or else you could find yourselves dethroned as he king of cryptos. No matter how small or little an innovation can be any improvement is a step forward, it may not be a leap forward or a mile, but it is a step in the right direction.

Innovation is not simply implementing new features to a scamcoin. Just because something is new does not mean it is better or even good. All it means is the fact that it is new.

In order for something to actually be innovative it needs to improve the experience of the user or add to something that the user can actually do that he needs to do. Forcing change on a user is almost certain to make the feature be a failure. 

[BAIDY1]

in my country, many people do not understand and support the bitcoin, yes, in China, bitcoin is speculation  very serious.

[johnyj]

The exchange rate is only decided by 2 factor: The daily coin supply and daily fiat money inflow

Daily coin supply is around 5000 coins. To maintain a price of $400, $2M fiat money is required to flow into the market daily. That is about one apartment in major city center. However, those apartment have FED printing money to support its price, while bitcoin has none, so the real fiat money inflow could be very unstable: If there are no fiat money inflow during a day, then price in principle could crash to single digits even there is a sell order of 100 coins. It is like the stock market crash caused by a liquidity crisis: When there is no money on the exchange, then large players could short the market down to earth

[CoinHoarder]

This is just not true. The reality is that there is no innovation yet in the altcoin world that worth enough for all the infrastructures built around the bitcoin's protocol to massively switch to another protocol. To break this network effect it will require a great level of features, that can't be implemented into the bitcoin's protocol, for the END USERS. End users don't care about back end technicalities even if they are better in some way. For this very reason most altcoins are doomed to be a craze for butthurt miners and clueless speculators.

I agree that it will take something extremely innovative and a vast improvement over Bitcoin to replace it, and I think this is unlikely to happen anytime soon. However, certain Alt coins are well on their way towards doing so, and I think if Bitcoin development remains at the same pace it is likely to happen at some point. 2014 has been a huge year for Alt coins in terms of innovation and development, before then they were pretty much all copy and paste coins. They are advancing, innovating, and developing at a fast pace, if Bitcoin doesn't do the same it could find itself behind in the arms race- too far behind to catch up.

I don't get how everything I stated doesn't affect end users in some way or another. I didn't even bring up consensus algorithms, which is mainly the only thing that wouldn't affect end users.

What you call butthurt miners are the people that make Bitcoin work as advertised and maintain the decentralization of the Bitcoin network. Lose them and Bitcoin is no longer a decentralized currency. I see them as very valuable to the ecosystem as centralization can only lead to bad things.

I suspect that specific coins that do specific things for specific markets will emerge but we have a long way to go before any altcoin proves itself enough to beat up bitcoin's network effect.

I agree, and certain cryptocurrencies have already emerged that do things for specific markets, such as asset issuance and decentralized exchanges eliminating third party risk. The risk by allowing other cryptocurrencies to perform these tasks is that they can perform these tasks well, along with being a better base currency than Bitcoin at the same time. I will use Bitshares as an example because it is the only Alt coin I really support at the moment.

Bitshares is a family of DACs... Distributed autonomous corporations that looks at cryptocurrencies as a business. The Bitcoin "business" is ran at a huge loss every year due to the amount of coins minted to pay for the security of the network and all the electricity burned in the process. Due to the number of coins minted to pay for the security of the network, it dilutes Bitcoin's value and requires the influx of new money to the tune of millions of dollars a year to retain its spending power. Whereas Bitshares DACs are profitable for its share holders, or in other words people that own the Cryptocurrency. It makes the Cryptocurrency model profitable by adding features that generate revenue in the form of fees which are destroyed, eliminating the wasteful use of electricity required to keep a PoW network secure, and by not printing more Cryptocurrency to pay for others to secure the Blockchain as they are also paid with a percentage of the fees that are generated by use of the Cryptocurrency. The DAC model is truly deflationary and that is how it turns its profit, as no new Cryptocurrency is ever printed and the transaction fees and fees collected by services on the block chain are destroyed. Whereas Bitcoin will be inflationary for the rest of our lives and require the influx of new money in order to maintain or grow its buying power.

The first feature of the Bitshares DAC family is BitsharesX. It has a decentralized exchange allowing the trade of market pegged assets that resemble the value of their real life values. This allows someone to store their cryptocoins without the volatility that goes along with them, and also allows them to diversify outside of cryptocoins in commodities like gold, silver, or oil. The assets and the Cryptocurrency they are backed by can all be used in the same way Bitcoin can, but with several advantages. Furthermore, these features will be shared by all Bitshares DACs, and you will be able to use bitUSD, bitGOLD, or any Bitshares asset or token as payment for features in other DACs. There are DACS planned for voting, DNS, music, and gambling. It is basically combining the Bitcoin ecosystem into the block chain and eliminating the need for trusted third parties. With Bitcoin trusted third parties are relied on to do a lot of the core services and not so core services (gambling etc), by requiring the use of trusted third parties it subjects the users of Bitcoin to unnecessary counterparty risk.

I already briefly mentioned the volatility and diversification possible, those are a couple of the biggest advantages of the BitsharesX DAC. Along with the advantages building services on top of the block chain will bring, if you ignore the new features that are built on top of DACS, the base cryptocurrency that DACS operate off of is inherently a better currency than Bitcoin. One of these advantages is that it has 10 second block times, which is much better than Bitcoin's 10 minute block times. Even with it being faster, it has been redesigned from the ground up for that 10 second block time to be more secure than 1 Bitcoin confirmation that takes 10 minutes, as one confirmation means it has been confirmed by 60% of the delegate nodes. It also forces people to use "Bitcoin's best practices" by generating a new address for every transaction using deterministic public and private keys, which greatly increases financial privacy whether someone is privy to the best financial privacy practices or not. There is also an optional alias system that allows users to register account names, so the long nonsensical addresses are never seen if someone doesn't want to. You can send the base currency or any asset to "Coinhoarder" and the network automatically generates a new spending and receiving address for both parties behind the scene.

In summary, although the features and improvements thus far may not be enough to overtake Bitcoin, it can and has certainly hurt it by taking away market share, community members, and developers. It is possible that the feature set (more DACS) and improvements to the base currency are expanded upon enough so that it could overtake Bitcoin at some point in the future. It may not be there as of today, but these projects are developing like crazy and constantly improving upon themselves. Even if it doesn't overtake Bitcoin, it still hurts it as I said by taking away market share, community, and developers. If Bitcoin sits back and does nothing, they could see their market share slowly dwindle down to the point that they are no longer the Cryptocurrency to beat. I see innovative cryptocurrencies and the DAC model as potential Bitcoin killers at some point down the road, that is unless Bitcoin gets off its ass and starts improving itself at a quicker rate and criticizing all innovations as gimmicks. And that is the reason I am here discussing these things with you guys, I want you all to wake up and smell the coffee. Projects like this are potential Bitcoin killers, it may make you feel better to call them scam coins, but they are truly revolutionary within the Cryptocurrency ecosystem and many would argue a much better solution than Bitcoin.

[CoinHoarder]

All the things you mentioned above does not worth my money to be put in. I'm still waiting for real true innovation over bitcoin for the end users, not slight pointless back ends improvements.

You are not going to find an altcoin that cures cancer when users mine or when they spend their coins.

I deleted your second comment as it was ignorant, but this is exactly my point. Old school Bitcoiners are so terribly hard to impress and think Bitcoin is fine the way it is. All innovations and improvements are considered as unnecessary or gimmicks. It is ridiculous, you guys need to learn to embrace innovation or else you could find yourselves dethroned as he king of cryptos. No matter how small or little an innovation can be any improvement is a step forward, it may not be a leap forward or a mile, but it is a step in the right direction.

Innovation is not simply implementing new features to a scamcoin. Just because something is new does not mean it is better or even good. All it means is the fact that it is new.

In order for something to actually be innovative it needs to improve the experience of the user or add to something that the user can actually do that he needs to do. Forcing change on a user is almost certain to make the feature be a failure.  

I agree, and there have been many not so good or not so innovative changes to Bitcoin in recent years. However, there have also been a lot of innovative changes and improvements that improve upon Bitcoin in some way, shape, form, or fashion. If you cannot see this, then you are not doing the proper research into alternative cryptocurrencies to be able to understand this and it is the result of laziness or ignorance. The features I mentioned up thread are either improvements upon Bitcoin or added features, and I don't see how they can be spun as being a bad thing.

Furthermore, all of the things I mentioned do improve the experience of users.. They are not purely back end changes. By removing the need for trusted third parties by adding services to the block chain, it protects the cryptocurrency's users from counterparty risk from tasks they normally perform on a centralized service. Increasing block speeds and reducing the size of the Blockchain makes a Cryptocurrency more convenient for the end user. Increasing privacy protects the end user.s from nefarious people and onerous governments. These are all things that are directly felt by the end users and are improvements upon the original Bitcoin model. These new and improved features will change the way people think about money, just as Bitcoin did but in a different way.

[pikabit]

Yes they to, its on the news daily.

[BurtW]

Advice to all current and future alt coin supporters:

If you want hard core Bitcoin supporters (Danny, me, others) and all other Bitcoin supporters to take notice of your new alt then, in addition to all of the great "improvements" you put into your coin, simply use the initial coin distribution method described here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563925.0

This will:

prove to everyone it is not yet another pump-and-dump
get all Bitcoin holders on board, invested and interested
give your alt coin a chance in hell of becoming something other than just another has been want-to-be footnote in the history of crypto currencies

Until that happens I personally will not be interested in your alt coin.

[CoinHoarder]

Advice to all current and future alt coin supporters:

If you want hard core Bitcoin supporters (Danny, me, others) and all other Bitcoin supporters to take notice of your new alt then, in addition to all of the great "improvements" you put into your coin, simply use the initial coin distribution method described here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563925.0

This will:

prove to everyone it is not yet another pump-and-dump
get all Bitcoin holders on board, invested and interested
give your alt coin a chance in hell of becoming something other than just another has been want-to-be footnote in the history of crypto currencies

Until that happens I personally will not be interested in your alt coin.

There's no such thing as a free lunch. 

[BurtW]

Advice to all current and future alt coin supporters:

If you want hard core Bitcoin supporters (Danny, me, others) and all other Bitcoin supporters to take notice of your new alt then, in addition to all of the great "improvements" you put into your coin, simply use the initial coin distribution method described here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563925.0

This will:

prove to everyone it is not yet another pump-and-dump
get all Bitcoin holders on board, invested and interested
give your alt coin a chance in hell of becoming something other than just another has been want-to-be footnote in the history of crypto currencies

Until that happens I personally will not be interested in your alt coin.

There's no such thing as a free lunch. 

Maybe, but there sure is such a thing as a totally worthless pump-and-dump alt coin, many such things.

[CoinHoarder]

There's no such thing as a free lunch. 

Maybe, but there sure is such a thing as a totally worthless pump-and-dump alt coin, many such things.

I guess I'm going to keep spouting off old adages as my arguments to save me the paragraphs it would require to explain it thoroughly. 

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

[juju]

I do believe that Bitcoin is probably one of the most amazing technological invention , and it changes my mind about currency , money and trading ..
but look at the price , i think it just constanly downwards right?
are people still care about investing in bitcoin? are they only wanna get rich by bitcoin? How many people out there loving the concept of cryptocurrency? 

I want to use the technology to its fullest potential, right now its not being used to its potential. I see so many ways that Bitcoin or digital currencies can embed themselves in our society, and traditional media/advertising.

It would be great if listening to Pandora Radio a QR Code was displayed that just auto purchased and downloaded the song to your library or your watching an Advertisement for a digital good on television/Internet you can probably conduct sales during advertising now.

Currently its possible to buy music etc via Pandora Radio, Itunes, but the amount of steps involved to purchase the song, information required Name etc is too much. Additionally buying individual songs for 99 cents is pretty absurd, cryptographic currencies would allow artists to sell songs for very small prices and I think more people will spend money.

Personally I have never donated to charities in my past using Cash, now that I can easily toss them a donation electronically anonymously, I have donated to more causes than I can recall at this point.

[CoinHoarder]

I want to use the technology to its fullest potential, right now its not being used to its potential. I see so many ways that Bitcoin or digital currencies can embed themselves in our society, and traditional media/advertising.

Very good point. 

[bornil267645]

of course they does, otherwise it would have died by now.

[kamudimana]

Of course ppl care, if there is no one cares about this, then the future of human's transaction