TGBEX, Limited Edition Physical Bitcoins

[TGBEX]

Appreciate the advice

As you say there are no 'established' players in the market anymore, but more importantly there has never been a physical bitcoin manufacturer with proper controls and procedures to safeguard keys

This is why we believe our coins are worth more- they have been checked, plus they are high quality, individually numbered, come with a signed certificate, corresponding QR code to allow owner to verify balance, booklet explaining the coin and how to redeem and a presentation box (the coins still retail for less than many other physical bitcoins available)- we also have to cover staff costs and engraving machinery costs

We are not doing this out of a bedroom or garage...(and we have not used cheapest suppliers, to ensure quality)

Anyone offering coins available for second hand trade could/ will be shut down (against laws in most countries), but I wouldn't buy a loaded second hand physical bitcoin from anyone (if our coins are individually numbered, then surely they are the most verifiable/ suited to second hand trade, but again we cannot condone or promote this)

Our coins are certainly the hardest physical bitcoins to copy (and as each uniquely numbered, more noticeable) and we are not reliant on 'paper and glue' solutions which surely might make private keys unreadable 10-20 years from now?

We believe our coins are more secure than any others out there for a number of reasons (mainly because we spent a long time thinking about problems and what could be done to rectify them).

Had a few orders already and thanks to those that have PM'd me, which I will sort out (our plan is to launch in UK over coming months, then expand to other countries if it all goes well).

[monkeynuts]

Just collected a couple of silver 1's from the local sorting office. All in all, nice coins. Happy to support a UK based seller.

As halo said above, the holo window is a bit on the large side. Even with the full key visible, it didnt need to be as big as it is.

Also holo itself may be slightly too big for the coin, as it partially covers some of the pressed design (or not quite big enough if it was meant to cover it all). Could just be a placement / centering thing. (or perhaps the standard 'series 1 error' ...  )

Look forward to seeing how the range develops. Good luck.

[TGBEX]

Glad you like them and need all the support in UK we can get

Issue with getting specially designed metallic holograms is the cutting is a nightmare- like the idea of a 1st edition glitch though!

Getting tidier as we practice and have something ordered that will hopefully solve issue.

[AT101ET]

May be interested in buying a few but price seems quite high.
Also, may be able to help with a few ways of spicing up the market for these precious coins
Drop me a PM

[TGBEX]

need to work on a lot of things (including finger in photo!), but thanks again for support in UK and beyond

[Fortify]

Will be interested if you decide to bring out lower denomination coins, ideally made of silver

[TGBEX]

Silver and gold raise tax issues in most countries, so unlikely, though we are working on a range of lwoer denomination coins

[TGBEX]

Just reduced prices for any UK buyers, in line with BTC price (had some issues with price feeds that should hopefully be sorted out this week)

Still have 2BTC coins numbered under 010 and 5 and 10BTC coins numbered under 006

0.5BTC coins and 1BTC coins approaching 020

[TGBEX]

Better picture of 1BTC coin boxed:

Actual coin on ebay now (earliest 1BTC coin ever available for public sale):
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111479191177?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

[hedgy73]

These do look nice coins, have you considered selling them unfunded?

[TGBEX]

These do look nice coins, have you considered selling them unfunded?

Yes and no...

Company mission is to help adoption and introduce a new audience to bitcoin, so had no intentions to sell unfunded (guess target market would not be able to do this)

Quickly discovered many of bitcoin community would like to fund coins themselves (or want 2-factor/ multi-factor authentication, or many do not want anyone having access to their private key(s) at any time, all of which are fair enough points, but each of these also have their disadvantages)

The issue is what if someone buys unfunded and resells as funded? (would damage our image and leave us open to legal action?)

Guess we could make a non-denomination coin (but still with keys engraved/ hologram in place) that could be suitable for this

If it happens will send you the 001, but not planned yet I'm afraid  (not convinced sufficient demand/ lower margins etc- would be cheaper to find an old coin and get one side smoothed/ engraved?)

Have a look at CrypArt.com for unfunded physical bitcoins......(launching soon)

[Fortify]

These do look nice coins, have you considered selling them unfunded?

Yes and no...

Company mission is to help adoption and introduce a new audience to bitcoin, so had no intentions to sell unfunded (guess target market would not be able to do this)

Quickly discovered many of bitcoin community would like to fund coins themselves (or want 2-factor/ multi-factor authentication, or many do not want anyone having access to their private key(s) at any time, all of which are fair enough points, but each of these also have their disadvantages)

The issue is what if someone buys unfunded and resells as funded? (would damage our image and leave us open to legal action?)

Guess we could make a non-denomination coin (but still with keys engraved/ hologram in place) that could be suitable for this

If it happens will send you the 001, but not planned yet I'm afraid  (not convinced sufficient demand/ lower margins etc- would be cheaper to find an old coin and get one side smoothed/ engraved?)

Have a look at CrypArt.com for unfunded physical bitcoins......(launching soon)

Surely people would be able to check the public address on the back of the coin to figure out if it has funds on it? It would be a bit silly to buy a coin without photos of the front and back. You could differentiate the hologram writing colour like the lealana coin does. Black for manufacturer funded, green for buyer funded. I don't think you would be responsible if someone sold a coin as funded, when they knew it was not.

[haploid23]

You still haven't addressed the problem of x-ray being able to see the keys. You see the engraved keys as a "secure feature", but I see it as a problematic liability. You can't deny the fact that certain instruments will be able to read right though the hologram without damaging it.

[haploid23]

I also wanted to add that the 20btc and 50btc coins are just ridiculous. Casascius bearer bars were high denomination, but only a few were made. It's like a pyramid. The higher the denomination, the harder it will be to sell, so fewer should be made. Casascius coins came out in 1btc each, when btc price was below $10. It was no problem for the average bitcoiner to buy 1btc, or even the 25btc coins back then. But now with the btc value and price premium you're on top of the face value, how many people do you think will drop thousands worth on these? There will probably be some buyers, but your audience will be greatly limited.

Relate these to selling silver bullion. You'll be able to sell smaller 1oz bars much faster, and you'll have more people able to buy these than if you were try to sell a 10kg bar.

[TGBEX]

These do look nice coins, have you considered selling them unfunded?

Yes and no...

Company mission is to help adoption and introduce a new audience to bitcoin, so had no intentions to sell unfunded (guess target market would not be able to do this)

Quickly discovered many of bitcoin community would like to fund coins themselves (or want 2-factor/ multi-factor authentication, or many do not want anyone having access to their private key(s) at any time, all of which are fair enough points, but each of these also have their disadvantages)

The issue is what if someone buys unfunded and resells as funded? (would damage our image and leave us open to legal action?)

Guess we could make a non-denomination coin (but still with keys engraved/ hologram in place) that could be suitable for this

If it happens will send you the 001, but not planned yet I'm afraid  (not convinced sufficient demand/ lower margins etc- would be cheaper to find an old coin and get one side smoothed/ engraved?)

Have a look at CrypArt.com for unfunded physical bitcoins......(launching soon)

Surely people would be able to check the public address on the back of the coin to figure out if it has funds on it? It would be a bit silly to buy a coin without photos of the front and back. You could differentiate the hologram writing colour like the lealana coin does. Black for manufacturer funded, green for buyer funded. I don't think you would be responsible if someone sold a coin as funded, when they knew it was not.

Yes they could (and we could still provide corresponding QR code in box to make this easier), but still brings risks....

Like the Lealana coins (built up a small collection of physical BTC/LTC as part of research), but think TGBEX is targeting a different market

Physical coins have been a novelty, enthusiasts like them as it helps explain the concept to people, but for a more serious investor, plastic/ cheap coins with keys on paper and glue do not seem sensible?

By engraving keys onto quality bronze alloy/ silver metals TGBEX coins will last longer and by having proper procedures, controls and compliance, we believe are a more 'investable' proposition (Antana coins are also great, but think I would rather rely on CADD systems to engrave keys, rather than any human?)

Plus think it might confuse non-enthusiasts if we were selling funded and unfunded? (friend has had an unfunded sample coin for a few months and has persuaded people/ could have sold it  4 or 5 times as loaded (admittedly always late on in pubs....))

Easy to get carried away with bitcoin and forget at least 90% (99%?) of people would not know how to check if loaded (and if it says 5BTC on it then some poeple might think that is good enough?

[TGBEX]

You still haven't addressed the problem of x-ray being able to see the keys. You see the engraved keys as a "secure feature", but I see it as a problematic liability. You can't deny the fact that certain instruments will be able to read right though the hologram without damaging it.

We have had a bit of trouble trying to test this, but am not sure it is a 'real' concern for most people- personally I do not know anyone with a x-ray machine and would be suspicious of anyone carrying one who wished to view/ scan coin....

Where it could possibly be a problem is at Airport baggage screening, but am not sure if most of these machines would have the resolution necessary to read keys...(again we do need to check this)

It is another argument against second hand sales- there are ways to compromise every physical bitcoin if you have access to it for long enough (weren't casascius coins 'hacked' with some glue and tweezers?)

You can x-ray paintings (as they do sometimes to see if picture painted underneath)- so this is a problem for all physical coins, not just engraved coins?

[TGBEX]

I also wanted to add that the 20btc and 50btc coins are just ridiculous. Casascius bearer bars were high denomination, but only a few were made. It's like a pyramid. The higher the denomination, the harder it will be to sell, so fewer should be made. Casascius coins came out in 1btc each, when btc price was below $10. It was no problem for the average bitcoiner to buy 1btc, or even the 25btc coins back then. But now with the btc value and price premium you're on top of the face value, how many people do you think will drop thousands worth on these? There will probably be some buyers, but your audience will be greatly limited.

Relate these to selling silver bullion. You'll be able to sell smaller 1oz bars much faster, and you'll have more people able to buy these than if you were try to sell a 10kg bar.



Target market is different- we are not selling these as a novelty item, but as a serious investment proposition

Many serious investments come with a minimum investment of £10-50k (hedge funds) or £50-200k (private equity funds)

If the wealthy and powerful can be persuaded to take an interest in bitcoin, then what would this do for bitcoin markets, or potential future?

We have only sold a few higher denomination coins so far, so you could be right, but will be targeting affluent areas in London at the end of the month, so will see how plausible the higher denomination coins are soon....

Low value silver coins sound like a good idea (unless you investigate tax consequences...)

I'll put you down for a gold 100BTC coin? (in production) ;-)

[TGBEX]

First second hand sale of coin:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201193542253?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true

Some decent pictures of coin there (hope to get proper pictures up on website soon)

[TGBEX]

relisted on ebay for any non-UK buyers interested…

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Physical-Bitcoin-0-5-BTC-loaded-very-high-quality-/201211617831?pt=UK_Coins_OtherBritish_RL&hash=item2ed925a227

[NissanSkyline]

How long does shipment take