Very interesting points on Bitcoin by a great Economist

[boumalo]

Peter Schiff is giving his negative point of view on Bitcoin in his last podcast :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMfoFlJhcck at 01:05:48

A lot of what he says about Bitcoin is 100% true : not enough shorter of the market, most people enter bitcoin to make a profit, more and more bitcoiners are at a loss now so it is bad press, miners need to sell, regulation can be a problem for Bitcoin, a lot of bitcoiners are naive/romantic/unrealistic, stop loss orders are taken advantage of in the market

But he is wrong on many things : the qualities of Bitcoin and the flaws of fiat will push the price higher, we are still telling on friends to buy, people who bought at 300-600$ didn't lose much and there is an increasingly high number of people that bought at this level, it has value as a store of value and medium of exchange, mtgox coins lost have been lost because of the third party risk such as when you give your money to a bank : if you keep your bitcoins securely you won't lose them

Peter Schiff likes Gold so much that he is not judging Bitcoin correctly and he wants bitcoiners to buy Gold; Schiff says facebook doesn't make any money and is worthless...

All the rest of what Peter Schiff says is good and he is warning everyone about the coming USD collapse, the real inflation not showed in official statistics, the fixing of the market by the FED, the dangers of Big Government, the hypocrite non racist organisations that are in fact racist and the never ending QE

[LiteCoinGuy]

Peter Schiff is and will ever be negative on this topic because he is an idiot.

[boumalo]

Peter Schiff is and will ever be negative on this topic because he is an idiot.

Peter Schiff warned about the DOTCOM bubble and the housing bubble! He is not what you say he is, he has a sound view on Economics

BUT he is missing the point on new technologies sometimes when he oversights facebook or Bitcoin, he is repeating facebook doesn't make money which is not true : they made 3Billions last quarter and it is increasing by 60% compared to last year!
They have 1.3 Billion MONTHLY users, who would think it has no value??

They have 12Billions of cash and the expected EBITDA this year is 8Billions, no value?

[franky1]

peter schiff is only interested in getting people to buy his gold, any way he can find a way to talk people out of fiat, shares, stocks or bitcoin. and then to talk them into bying gold.. he wil do that.

one thing for sure that is negative about bitcoin is the AMLKYC is killing the crappy PHP exchanges. more large whale investors are trading privately and their trades are not ever seen on the PHP coded exchanges.
PHP exchanges (notbitcoin) is dying. most exchanges are only playing with dust amounts and an occasional 300btc buy/sell wall.

just like in february when people realised mtgox was not allowing FIAT withdrawals people started to no longer masure bitcoins via the mtgox price and instead measured bitcoin via exchanges that offered easy FIAT deposit/withdrawal (the $100mtgox $450other exchange saga)

the same thing is happening now, local bitcoins trading is happening with much higher spread compared to PHP exchanges, other private trades through large organisations and otc are also at a nice premium compared to the public PHP coded exchanges.

dont blame bitcoin for the low php exchange price.. blame AMLKYC flags and limits.

[Melbustus]

Give this thread a read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68655.0 . Peter Schiff (and similarly, Jim Rickards) comes up every now and then. His broken-thinking with respect to bitcoin has been dissected several times.

Also, read Eric Voorhees "open letter to Peter Schiff": http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1rxmk3/my_open_letter_to_peter_schiff_followup_from_the

[dKingston]

Peter Schiff is and will ever be negative on this topic because he is an idiot.

Of course as boumalo he is NOT an idiot! But Bitcoins are a fully new thing. History never seen anything like bitcoins!

[franky1]

peter schiff is not an idiot, infact you have to imply reverse psychology to see his true motives..

everyone knows he is a gold hoarder, and if he was really seing a large investment return on gold, he would hoard HIS gold and get people to buy gold on gold markets to get the price to increase.

now for the reverse psychology.
if he sells you HIS GOLD then its not because he loves gold and wants you to join his love for it. its because he wants to dump his hoard. also to note by accepting bitcoins, shows that HE WANTS bitcoins. why else swap gold for bitcoins unless he secretly prefers it.

[pawel7777]

A lot of what he says about Bitcoin is 100% true ..., most people enter bitcoin to make a profit, more and more bitcoiners are at a loss now so it is bad press, miners need to sell, regulation can be a problem for Bitcoin, a lot of bitcoiners are naive/romantic/unrealistic...

He's pushing for gold, but a lot of his arguments against bitcoin can easily be used against gold.



I've seen a couple of his videos/interviews and his major problem with BTC was that it is immaterial and have 'no intrinsic value', which is so dumb that not worth commenting.


Edit:

Also this:

...
now for the reverse psychology.
if he sells you HIS GOLD then its not because he loves gold and wants you to join his love for it. its because he wants to dump his hoard. also to note by accepting bitcoins, shows that HE WANTS bitcoins. why else swap gold for bitcoins unless he secretly prefers it.

[Melbustus]

Also, while Peter Schiff is no idiot, he's also not a "great Economist" by any stretch. He's more just an ardent gold-bug with standard gold-bug arguments and rhetoric.

Anyone remember when he went on a tirade about bitcon's divisibility being the same thing as supply-inflation? That's just bad math and bad thinking (note: his brother Andrew told me in person that he doesn't know what Peter's hang up there is).

[boumalo]

peter schiff is not an idiot, infact you have to imply reverse psychology to see his true motives..

everyone knows he is a gold hoarder, and if he was really seing a large investment return on gold, he would hoard HIS gold and get people to buy gold on gold markets to get the price to increase.

now for the reverse psychology.
if he sells you HIS GOLD then its not because he loves gold and wants you to join his love for it. its because he wants to dump his hoard. also to note by accepting bitcoins, shows that HE WANTS bitcoins. why else swap gold for bitcoins unless he secretly prefers it.

http://www.europacmetals.com/ has very low fees and doesn't sell Schiff's gold, Schiff is probably having more gold than ever

Also, while Peter Schiff is no idiot, he's also not a "great Economist" by any stretch. He's more just an ardent gold-bug with standard gold-bug arguments and rhetoric.

Anyone remember when he went on a tirade about bitcon's divisibility being the same thing as supply-inflation? That's just bad math and bad thinking (note: his brother Andrew told me in person that he doesn't know what Peter's hang up there is).

Schiff is sometimes wrong but his record is great : dotcom then housing bubble previsions, QE going to go on and get bigger or more recently when he said the price to pay for the form to renounce to your American nationality was going to go up (http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2014/08/28/u-s-hikes-fee-to-renounce-citizenship-by-422/)

He is a business man and a good one but he is mostly an advocate of sound money and austrian economics to fight the witchcraft/wishful thinking economics of the likes of marx, keynes or nowadays thomas piketty

[LiteCoinGuy]

peter schiff is not an idiot, infact you have to imply reverse psychology to see his true motives..

everyone knows he is a gold hoarder, and if he was really seing a large investment return on gold, he would hoard HIS gold and get people to buy gold on gold markets to get the price to increase.

now for the reverse psychology.
if he sells you HIS GOLD then its not because he loves gold and wants you to join his love for it. its because he wants to dump his hoard. also to note by accepting bitcoins, shows that HE WANTS bitcoins. why else swap gold for bitcoins unless he secretly prefers it.

true part. but he also said several times in the past "i dont understand bitcoin. there are unlimited bitcoins..." etc etc. he should do some research before he talks. otherwise he isnt such a "good financial expert". and by the way his "no intrinsic value" crap sucks.
take a look at Mike Maloney. alot smarter in his answers.

(and iam not anti-gold)

[Beliathon]

peter schiff is only interested in getting people to buy his gold, any way he can find a way to talk people out of fiat, shares, stocks or bitcoin.

Truth quoted above.

[Dalmar]

Peter Schiff is a broken record.

While he may be right in the very long term on the fed, if you listen to him for swing trading advice you are going to get killed.

Do the opposite of whatever he tells people.

[boumalo]

Peter Schiff is a broken record.

While he may be right in the very long term on the fed, if you listen to him for swing trading advice you are going to get killed.

Do the opposite of whatever he tells people.

If you want to participate in the bubble and are interested about how the market will react tomorrow but you don't care about the future, Schiff's perspective is useless but he is not a broken record he is explaining what is happening; low interests rates in 2000s by Greenspan created a bubble that popped when he raises the rates slowly 25basis points per 25basis points in middle of 04-middle of 06

Interest rates are now 0 or 0.25!! And more and more air is going into the bubbles, there is no recovery because if we had a recovery we wouldn't need 0 interest rate and the FED could decrease its more than 3000Billions balance sheet except that it can't

[blatchcorn]

peter schiff is only interested in getting people to buy his gold, any way he can find a way to talk people out of fiat, shares, stocks or bitcoin. and then to talk them into bying gold.. he wil do that.

one thing for sure that is negative about bitcoin is the AMLKYC is killing the crappy PHP exchanges. more large whale investors are trading privately and their trades are not ever seen on the PHP coded exchanges.
PHP exchanges (notbitcoin) is dying. most exchanges are only playing with dust amounts and an occasional 300btc buy/sell wall.

just like in february when people realised mtgox was not allowing FIAT withdrawals people started to no longer masure bitcoins via the mtgox price and instead measured bitcoin via exchanges that offered easy FIAT deposit/withdrawal (the $100mtgox $450other exchange saga)

the same thing is happening now, local bitcoins trading is happening with much higher spread compared to PHP exchanges, other private trades through large organisations and otc are also at a nice premium compared to the public PHP coded exchanges.

dont blame bitcoin for the low php exchange price.. blame AMLKYC flags and limits.

What is the alternative to php exchanges?

[Eotnak]

peter schiff is only interested in getting people to buy his gold, any way he can find a way to talk people out of fiat, shares, stocks or bitcoin. and then to talk them into bying gold.. he wil do that.

one thing for sure that is negative about bitcoin is the AMLKYC is killing the crappy PHP exchanges. more large whale investors are trading privately and their trades are not ever seen on the PHP coded exchanges.
PHP exchanges (notbitcoin) is dying. most exchanges are only playing with dust amounts and an occasional 300btc buy/sell wall.

just like in february when people realised mtgox was not allowing FIAT withdrawals people started to no longer masure bitcoins via the mtgox price and instead measured bitcoin via exchanges that offered easy FIAT deposit/withdrawal (the $100mtgox $450other exchange saga)

the same thing is happening now, local bitcoins trading is happening with much higher spread compared to PHP exchanges, other private trades through large organisations and otc are also at a nice premium compared to the public PHP coded exchanges.

dont blame bitcoin for the low php exchange price.. blame AMLKYC flags and limits.

What is the alternative to php exchanges?

For someone like me, it would be localbitcoins cash in person.  People are paying a small premium for pseudo-anonymity.  Localbitcoins also has traders that do bank deposits and paypal, etc.  for less of a markup.  They usually require ID.  For large holders and buyers there's OTC trading.  OTC keeps the trade from affecting the market and the trade itself.

[arxwn]

Peter Schiff is a broken record.

While he may be right in the very long term on the fed, if you listen to him for swing trading advice you are going to get killed.

Do the opposite of whatever he tells people.

He is a macro guy, of course in the long term we all dead.

[arxwn]

peter schiff is only interested in getting people to buy his gold, any way he can find a way to talk people out of fiat, shares, stocks or bitcoin. and then to talk them into bying gold.. he wil do that.

one thing for sure that is negative about bitcoin is the AMLKYC is killing the crappy PHP exchanges. more large whale investors are trading privately and their trades are not ever seen on the PHP coded exchanges.
PHP exchanges (notbitcoin) is dying. most exchanges are only playing with dust amounts and an occasional 300btc buy/sell wall.

just like in february when people realised mtgox was not allowing FIAT withdrawals people started to no longer masure bitcoins via the mtgox price and instead measured bitcoin via exchanges that offered easy FIAT deposit/withdrawal (the $100mtgox $450other exchange saga)

the same thing is happening now, local bitcoins trading is happening with much higher spread compared to PHP exchanges, other private trades through large organisations and otc are also at a nice premium compared to the public PHP coded exchanges.

dont blame bitcoin for the low php exchange price.. blame AMLKYC flags and limits.

What is the alternative to php exchanges?

For someone like me, it would be localbitcoins cash in person.  People are paying a small premium for pseudo-anonymity.  Localbitcoins also has traders that do bank deposits and paypal, etc.  for less of a markup.  They usually require ID.  For large holders and buyers there's OTC trading.  OTC keeps the trade from affecting the market and the trade itself.

Are you a goddamn terr'ist exchanging bitcoins in the back alley of a gas station .

[boumalo]

Peter Schiff is a broken record.

While he may be right in the very long term on the fed, if you listen to him for swing trading advice you are going to get killed.

Do the opposite of whatever he tells people.

He is a macro guy, of course in the long term we all dead.

We are not talking very long term we are talking about now: we have a huge inflation, we have a fixing of prices in the bond market and they are creating unserviceable debt and unfunded liabilities : they are destroying the economy and lying to the American people

[FallingKnife]

This is all so confusing. Lets setup a Peter Schiff vs Andreas Antonopoulos debate and settle this bitcoin thingy once and for all.