Paypal pushed price only to 450 , doom...

[Mikcik]

So is it only me that is suprised that paypal (some kind of) accaptence BTC managed to push bitcoin only about 50 usd higher, only to collapse it back to 400 usd per BTC in a day or two... Am i the only one that finds this development really frightening. And im talking about the real latest (day or 2) news about paypal integration of btc, not braintree integration of btc...

Come on... paypal is a serious player and it pushed btc price only up about 50 usd... what next, facebook and amazon start accepting btc, and the price will go up only 100 usd (to 500), thats ridiculously SMALL (!). Am I the only worried about this development (in short and middle term, in long term im still a btc believer)...

Im thinking about selling my coins and buying them back in 300 or 200 price level...

Whats your look on the ridiculously TINY price upswing due to paypal...

are we short and midterm on a way down?

[FNG]

So is it only me that is suprised that paypal (some kind of) accaptence BTC managed to push bitcoin only about 50 usd higher, only to collapse it back to 400 usd per BTC in a day or two... Am i the only one that finds this development really frightening. And im talking about the real latest (day or 2) news about paypal integration of btc, not braintree integration of btc...

Come on... paypal is a serious player and it pushed btc price only up about 50 usd... what next, facebook and amazon start accepting btc, and the price will go up only 100 usd (to 500), thats ridiculously SMALL (!). Am I the only worried about this development (in short and middle term, in long term im still a btc believer)...

Im thinking about selling my coins and buying them back in 300 or 200 price level...

Whats your look on the ridiculously TINY price upswing due to paypal...

are we short and midterm on a way down?

Short term thinking.

With every big win bitcoin can be ignored less and less.   Once more and more rising companies start accepting it. it will be impossible to.

[mladen00]

So is it only me that is suprised that paypal (some kind of) accaptence BTC managed to push bitcoin only about 50 usd higher, only to collapse it back to 400 usd per BTC in a day or two... Am i the only one that finds this development really frightening. And im talking about the real latest (day or 2) news about paypal integration of btc, not braintree integration of btc...

Come on... paypal is a serious player and it pushed btc price only up about 50 usd... what next, facebook and amazon start accepting btc, and the price will go up only 100 usd (to 500), thats ridiculously SMALL (!). Am I the only worried about this development (in short and middle term, in long term im still a btc believer)...

Im thinking about selling my coins and buying them back in 300 or 200 price level...

Whats your look on the ridiculously TINY price upswing due to paypal...

are we short and midterm on a way down?

Short term thinking.

With every big win bitcoin can be ignored less and less.   Once more and more rising companies start accepting it. it will be impossible to.

+1

we are one step closer to the top

[spiderbrain]

This is my take on the situation.

It's speculative value vs network value. Bitcoin's value is still mostly speculative, but the network value is growing all the time, and will eventually be much larger than the current price. By network value I mean the total amount of fiat value in motion or stored using bitcoin divided by the total number of bitcoins.

The speculative value is a function of

 1) how much it will be worth in 5 years? maybe tracking the long term exponential trend (i.e. > $10,000 or a lot more)
 2) what is the cheapest it will be between now and then? Maybe <$300.
 3) risk of technology failure ( not zero, but very small)

The second question is clearly the important one right now, as we are in a 9 month down trend, so it's in some ways reasonable to assume that the long term investment can be made later for a much lower price. On the other hand, the Paypal announcement is a sign that the future network value will be higher sooner than some might have thought. One group of people (GABI) have decided to start investing now and take the risk of missing out on a lower entry point. Another group of people (over leveraged Chinese mining operations among them) are deciding to liquidate now because they owe fiat loans taken out on the assumption of a bitcoin price > $600. We had a brief spike from the paypal news, but it got eaten by bankrupt industrial miners and over exposed get rich quick schemers.

I don't think this is a case of early adopters cashing out, the fundamentals are all looking fantastic. I suspect this is bad mining operations selling at any price to avoid bankruptcy, or perhaps Chinese money mining at a loss to launder fiat out of the country. Who knows, but once some of these sort term operations wind up we'll end the down trend, and once this is fairly clear in the TA a lot of investors will realise this cheapest point to enter has past, and we'll have another big leg up.

So is it a good idea to sell now and buy back once it goes lower? All I can think of is endless posts by people who sold at $1 at the end of the last major downtrend, and have been miserable ever since. So I am personally too afraid to sell. May or may not go down a lot more, but right now I like how many bitcoins I have, and I can't predict the price short term.

[Mikcik]

Useless delusional posts... (as always on this forum)

I said that im talking about the short or mid term, not long term, but you can lose or make money also in the short and mid term. And those short and mid terms can be VERY long.

You also fail to realize that the more merchants that accept bitcoin, the more down pressure for btc price there will be, because the majority of merchants accepting bitcoin do not hold them, but immidiatelly sell them into market... If they would keep the btcs, yeah the price will go higher or at least not fall so much, but this didnt happen so far...

So please, some inteligent, less biased readers, whats your take on these?

[Mikcik]

This is my take on the situation.

It's speculative value vs network value. Bitcoin's value is still mostly speculative, but the network value is growing all the time, and will eventually be much larger than the current price. By network value I mean the total amount of fiat value in motion or stored using bitcoin divided by the total number of bitcoins.

The speculative value is a function of

 1) how much it will be worth in 5 years? maybe tracking the long term exponential trend (i.e. > $10,000 or a lot more)
 2) what is the cheapest it will be between now and then? Maybe <$300.
 3) risk of technology failure ( not zero, but very small)

The second question is clearly the important one right now, as we are in a 9 month down trend, so it's in some ways reasonable to assume that the long term investment can be made later for a much lower price. On the other hand, the Paypal announcement is a sign that the future network value will be higher sooner than some might have thought. One group of people (GABI) have decided to start investing now and take the risk of missing out on a lower entry point. Another group of people (over leveraged Chinese mining operations among them) are deciding to liquidate now because they owe fiat loans taken out on the assumption of a bitcoin price > $600. We had a brief spike from the paypal news, but it got eaten by bankrupt industrial miners and over exposed get rich quick schemers.

I don't think this is a case of early adopters cashing out, the fundamentals are all looking fantastic. I suspect this is bad mining operations selling at any price to avoid bankruptcy, or perhaps Chinese money mining at a loss to launder fiat out of the country. Who knows, but once some of these sort term operations wind up we'll end the down trend, and once this is fairly clear in the TA a lot of investors will realise this cheapest point to enter has past, and we'll have another big leg up.

So is it a good idea to sell now and buy back once it goes lower? All I can think of is endless posts by people who sold at $1 at the end of the last major downtrend, and have been miserable ever since. So I am personally too afraid to sell. May or may not go down a lot more, but right now I like how many bitcoins I have, and I can't predict the price short term.

OMG, yes! At least one tought trough response, thanks.

Well i would not sell all of my BTCs of course, just a portion of it (half?) to buy them back (at 200 or 300 probably.)

So you agree that the price spike after the recent paypal annoucment was ridiculously small, but you blame the bankrupt miners for this. interesting.
I think the btc people (the foundation or someone) should not only be focusing on persuading merchants to accept btc, but to also keep some of them (and not immidiatelly sell them into market like the coinbase and similiar merchant "providers" do).

[Mieehayii]

Now the price is back to the bottem 8(

[BTCfan1]

it's all about the holiday shopping rush imo...black friday will be big as well

[Bulletin]

paypal is only announcing that it will accept bitcoin, when it will happen for real, the price will rise more.

[JimboToronto]

Useless delusional posts... (as always on this forum)

I said that im talking about the short or mid term, not long term, but you can lose or make money also in the short and mid term. And those short and mid terms can be VERY long.

You also fail to realize that the more merchants that accept bitcoin, the more down pressure for btc price there will be, because the majority of merchants accepting bitcoin do not hold them, but immidiatelly sell them into market... If they would keep the btcs, yeah the price will go higher or at least not fall so much, but this didnt happen so far...

So please, some inteligent, less biased readers, whats your take on these?

LOLOLOL

Useless delusional posts?

Pot, meet kettle.

hahahahahahaha

 

I hope you're just trolling and don't actually take yourself seriously.

Do you fancy yourself to be a trader?

[Mikcik]

paypal is only announcing that it will accept bitcoin, when it will happen for real, the price will rise more.

oh ok thanks, i didnt read the whole article, when will paypal accept the bitcoin for real, is there some trustworthy estimate?

[Wandererfromthenorth]

I said that im talking about the short or mid term, not long term, but you can lose or make money also in the short and mid term. And those short and mid terms can be VERY long.

Go for it. Keep one thing in mind: most traders lose money. If you think you can beat the market, by all means, beat it.

I've been watching this market for a long time. I've never traded it. Hindsight almost convinces me that I could have made (can still make?) a small fortune trading it. The reality is I would have probably ended up with less money (fiat or bitcoin) than I have today. Of course, everyone in this sub forum is a master speculator (just like all the inmates in prison are not guilty).

The only "trading" I do is that I'll spend some coins when I think the exchange rate is "high" and I'll spend fiat instead when I think the exchange rate is "low".

There's a misconceptions around here about trading BTC being "difficult", and about "99.9% of traders lose money" and shit like that.
The truth is that BTC markets are really easy to trade because there's a lot of "dumb money" in them. Trading stocks, futures etc is a whole other story in comparison, because you are competing with traders that actually know what they are doing (for the most part, and in comparison to BTC).

If you follow some folks on Twitter they have reliably called the major moves (before they happened of course, i have been following them) of BTC since $1200 and I have been making similar moves on my own (learning everyday still).
It's not rocket science, and especially because "dumb money".

But whatever, if someone doesn't have the time to follow BTC markets or to learn how to play them and wants to be a far more "relaxed" BTC holder, then everything's fine (just don't say "trading is gambling" in that case ).

[Furio]

So is it only me that is suprised that paypal (some kind of) accaptence BTC managed to push bitcoin only about 50 usd higher, only to collapse it back to 400 usd per BTC in a day or two... Am i the only one that finds this development really frightening. And im talking about the real latest (day or 2) news about paypal integration of btc, not braintree integration of btc...

Come on... paypal is a serious player and it pushed btc price only up about 50 usd... what next, facebook and amazon start accepting btc, and the price will go up only 100 usd (to 500), thats ridiculously SMALL (!). Am I the only worried about this development (in short and middle term, in long term im still a btc believer)...

Im thinking about selling my coins and buying them back in 300 or 200 price level...

Whats your look on the ridiculously TINY price upswing due to paypal...

are we short and midterm on a way down?

Paypal acception means more BTC are getting sold, hence a drop. The 50 rise was awesome, only ofcourse it's gonna drop, because of the sell off. The acceptance is good news, but bitcoin main problem for adoption is easy and safe to use. Ones devs figure that out for the masses, it's to the moon. People right now are to scared to step into bitcoin with real money...