Ripple UNL, how is the UNL not centralised?

[jubalix]

I'm not anti ripple, but can some one explain how the UNL is not centralized.

Essentially unless you make it onto the UNL list, the ripple running servers don't include you.

How do you get on the UNL, well the others or majority of existing servers have to decide to add you.

Unique Node List = UNL

[bibbit]

I'm not anti ripple, but can some one explain how the UNL is not centralized.

Essentially unless you make it onto the UNL list, the ripple running servers don't include you.

How do you get on the UNL, well the others or majority of existing servers have to decide to add you.

Unique Node List = UNL

The UNL is not unique to the entire Ripple network. Each validator gets to choose which other nodes are placed in its own UNL. That is, each node operator chooses who to trust.

The "unique" terminology comes from the idea that the validators that you place in your UNL should be unique entities, so that you don't fill it up with nodes controlled by a single agent who might have his nodes collude against you.

It is fine that you don't trust the nodes in your UNL as long as you trust that they won't collude against you. You might not trust either the Road Runner or Wile E Coyote, but you can trust that they won't collude against you, so it would be OK to add both.

See thethe Ripple Consensus white paper for a more formal description:

https://ripple.com/files/ripple_consensus_whitepaper.pdf

[jubalix]

I'm not anti ripple, but can some one explain how the UNL is not centralized.

Essentially unless you make it onto the UNL list, the ripple running servers don't include you.

How do you get on the UNL, well the others or majority of existing servers have to decide to add you.

Unique Node List = UNL

The UNL is not unique to the entire Ripple network. Each validator gets to choose which other nodes are placed in its own UNL. That is, each node operator chooses who to trust.

The "unique" terminology comes from the idea that the validators that you place in your UNL should be unique entities, so that you don't fill it up with nodes controlled by a single agent who might have his nodes collude against you.

It is fine that you don't trust the nodes in your UNL as long as you trust that they won't collude against you. You might not trust either the Road Runner or Wile E Coyote, but you can trust that they won't collude against you, so it would be OK to add both.



See thethe Ripple Consensus white paper for a more formal description:

https://ripple.com/files/ripple_consensus_whitepaper.pdf

but what if the majority of existing UNL dont wish to include you can not just opt in like BTC/POW or Peercoin/POS as I understand.

[Sukrim]

As far as I got it, this is not a fixed/defined process (as this would be likely exploitable) - it is possible by watching network traffic to learn about current and new validators though, so you can already have some pubkeys to start a search.

A suggestion was that some kind of "hubs", "aggregators" or "collector websites" should be built where people can post their public validation key(s), some additional info (e.g. who they are, if they have special policies regarding what they will vote on or whom they include in their UNL...) and then sign this with their private validation key. These signed statements then could be used to (semi)automatically build your private UNL.

but what if the majority of existing UNL dont wish to include you can not just opt in like BTC/POW or Peercoin/POS as I understand.

This currently is the case, as RippleLabs atm. does not add third party validators as far as I'm aware.