Bitcoin Crashing Again....

[Campsis]

I really don't know why? I mean will we ever see $800 again... I doubt it for some reason

Edit: As of 28/09/2014 - Lowest so far 375$

[Beliathon]

speculation belongs in the speculation sub-forum.

[letyouearn]

Really. ?


Let me check it right away .

If its true , It will a very bad news for all Bitcoin Traders.

[ChuckBuck]

Don't think Bitcoin is crashing.  It actually looks like it's in a holding pattern of sorts:

[Campsis]

Don't think Bitcoin is crashing.  It actually looks like it's in a holding pattern of sorts:

"don't think bitcoin is crashing" - that made me LOL

It used to be $1200..

[phillipsjk]

That is a slow slide. It happened after the June 2011 crash. I had like a year to buy in at $3--$5 (and failed to).

The reason is inflation. 25BTC are created every 10 minutes or so. At $450/coin, the works out to $1.62Million/day (25BTC/block*6blocks/hour*24hours/day*$450/BTC) that must be invested every day to keep the price up.

If that investment does not happen, the price falls. The block reward with halve again within about 2 years. I think by then Bitcoin will likely have a value of $5000/coin or more.

[kokojie]

That is a slow slide. It happened after the June 2011 crash. I had like a year to buy in at $3--$5 (and failed to).

The reason is inflation. 25BTC are created every 10 minutes or so. At $450/coin, the works out to $1.62Million/day (25BTC/block*6blocks/hour*24hours/day*$450/BTC) that must be invested every day to keep the price up.

If that investment does not happen, the price falls. The block reward with halve again within about 2 years. I think by then Bitcoin will likely have a value of $5000/coin or more.

It's not so much an inflation, but an expense as result of PoW mining, everyday $1.5M is transferred from the Bitcoin eco-system, into the pockets of ASIC hardware vendors and electricity companies. Therefore, Bitcoin needs bigger and better news all the time, to bring in more than $1.5M new money per day and prop up the price, which the paypal news did for us, for a short time. Then once the news fades, we are back to slowly bleeding money until the next news hits, hopefully it'd be big enough to make the price go up.

[phillipsjk]

It's not so much an inflation, but an expense as result of PoW mining, everyday $1.5M is transferred from the Bitcoin eco-system, into the pockets of ASIC hardware vendors and electricity companies.

I disagree: mining difficulty follows the price, not the other way around. If miners start to find it unprofitable, the hash-rate will drop. Less efficient miners drop first.

POW is important because it requires an attacker to expend scarce resources: something POS based currencies do not. The problem with POW is that we still do not know for certain it will work in the long-term. (It seems to inherently assume people are generally "good".) Bitcoin is still very much an experiment.

[kokojie]

It's not so much an inflation, but an expense as result of PoW mining, everyday $1.5M is transferred from the Bitcoin eco-system, into the pockets of ASIC hardware vendors and electricity companies.

I disagree: mining difficulty follows the price, not the other way around. If miners start to find it unprofitable, the hash-rate will drop. Less efficient miners drop first.

POW is important because it requires an attacker to expend scarce resources: something POS based currencies do not. The problem with POW is that we still do not know for certain it will work in the long-term. Bitcoin is still very much an experiment.

Wrong, it's extremely easy and cheap to attack PoW network, tons of PoW altcoin has been attacked to death.

Zero successful 51% attack on any PoS altcoin so far.

Because:
1. it's extremely expensive to acquire 51% stake
2. once you acquire 51% stake, why would you attack anymore? YOU are the majority stake holder, you want to attack yourself? and destroy the reputation and value of the coin you hold 51% stake in? why would you destroy your own wealth? it won't make any sense.

[TheJuice]

Look at where we were 1 year ago. Technically, yes bitcoin had a crash. But for the past 6 mo we have traded in a good range. We are at a low of that range now.

[phillipsjk]

Wrong, it's extremely easy and cheap to attack PoW network, tons of PoW altcoin has been attacked to death.

Zero successful 51% attack on any PoS altcoin so far.

The 51% attack does not work on PoS coins because they are centralized. They use aggressive check-pointing. They also can not be "forged" securely (to an off-line wallet) since you need to keep the private key in memory (of a network-connected machine) to prove "stake".

Most famously, Vericoin (NxT) was rolled back after the Mintpal hack. (Another article talks about how Vericoin was not rolled back after BETR was compromised: paying ransom instead).

[oda.krell]

It's not so much an inflation, but an expense as result of PoW mining, everyday $1.5M is transferred from the Bitcoin eco-system, into the pockets of ASIC hardware vendors and electricity companies.

I disagree: mining difficulty follows the price, not the other way around. If miners start to find it unprofitable, the hash-rate will drop. Less efficient miners drop first.

POW is important because it requires an attacker to expend scarce resources: something POS based currencies do not. The problem with POW is that we still do not know for certain it will work in the long-term. Bitcoin is still very much an experiment.

Wrong, it's extremely easy and cheap to attack PoW network, tons of PoW altcoin has been attacked to death.

Zero successful 51% attack on any PoS altcoin so far.

Because:
1. it's extremely expensive to acquire 51% stake
2. once you acquire 51% stake, why would you attack anymore? YOU are the majority stake holder, you want to attack yourself? and destroy the reputation and value of the coin you hold 51% stake in? why would you destroy your own wealth? it won't make any sense.

Quite a bit of twisting of facts.

It's as "easy and cheap" to attack a PoW network as the cost of specialized hardware and electricity that goes into securing it. For alts, that's a real problem, agreed. For Bitcoin, this risk is becoming more and more hypothetical.

There are numerous reasons to prefer PoW over PoS, but I'm going to guess it'll be pointless to have this argument now. Preferring one or the other is a major point of divergent opinions, as far as I can tell.

[zimmah]

Don't think Bitcoin is crashing.  It actually looks like it's in a holding pattern of sorts:

"don't think bitcoin is crashing" - that made me LOL

It used to be $1200..

it never was $1200, $1200 was just a peak, an all-time high. It was never stable at $1200

It was $120 or so a year ago for crying out loud.

If you only look at the highest value it has ever been compared to the current price, of course it's never going to be higher.

[Wilhelm]

Don't think Bitcoin is crashing.  It actually looks like it's in a holding pattern of sorts:

"don't think bitcoin is crashing" - that made me LOL

It used to be $1200..

it never was $1200, $1200 was just a peak, an all-time high. It was never stable at $1200

It was $120 or so a year ago for crying out loud.

If you only look at the highest value it has ever been compared to the current price, of course it's never going to be higher.

Like the €3400/coin

[kokojie]

Wrong, it's extremely easy and cheap to attack PoW network, tons of PoW altcoin has been attacked to death.

Zero successful 51% attack on any PoS altcoin so far.

The 51% attack does not work on PoS coins because they are centralized. They use aggressive check-pointing. They also can not be "forged" securely (to an off-line wallet) since you need to keep the private key in memory (of a network-connected machine) to prove "stake".

Most famously, Vericoin (NxT) was rolled back after the Mintpal hack. (Another article talks about how Vericoin was not rolled back after BETR was compromised: paying ransom instead).

Again, WRONG. All PoW has checkpointing, including Bitcoin, because it's so easy to attack a PoW network. Most pure PoS coin does not have checkpointing, because it's not needed. Peercoin is fading out checkpointing since the PoS portion has taken over the network now.

Vericoin roll back is due to hacking, not because of failure of PoS system, so what's the problem? if someone hacked 50% of all Bitcoin available, you can be pretty sure Bitcoin is going to hard fork and rollback the attacker's address too, otherwise the eco-system will fail. Or do you think if someone stole 50% of all USD available, the US government is just going to let it slide?

[maker88]

Don't think Bitcoin is crashing.  It actually looks like it's in a holding pattern of sorts:

"don't think bitcoin is crashing" - that made me LOL

It used to be $1200..

it never was $1200, $1200 was just a peak, an all-time high. It was never stable at $1200

It was $120 or so a year ago for crying out loud.

If you only look at the highest value it has ever been compared to the current price, of course it's never going to be higher.

Like the €3400/coin

Yep lol the real ATH is 3400 euro, and considering its at <340 euro today, bitcoin is officially dead you guys!!

[kokojie]

It's not so much an inflation, but an expense as result of PoW mining, everyday $1.5M is transferred from the Bitcoin eco-system, into the pockets of ASIC hardware vendors and electricity companies.

I disagree: mining difficulty follows the price, not the other way around. If miners start to find it unprofitable, the hash-rate will drop. Less efficient miners drop first.

POW is important because it requires an attacker to expend scarce resources: something POS based currencies do not. The problem with POW is that we still do not know for certain it will work in the long-term. Bitcoin is still very much an experiment.

Wrong, it's extremely easy and cheap to attack PoW network, tons of PoW altcoin has been attacked to death.

Zero successful 51% attack on any PoS altcoin so far.

Because:
1. it's extremely expensive to acquire 51% stake
2. once you acquire 51% stake, why would you attack anymore? YOU are the majority stake holder, you want to attack yourself? and destroy the reputation and value of the coin you hold 51% stake in? why would you destroy your own wealth? it won't make any sense.

Quite a bit of twisting of facts.

It's as "easy and cheap" to attack a PoW network as the cost of specialized hardware and electricity that goes into securing it. For alts, that's a real problem, agreed. For Bitcoin, this risk is becoming more and more hypothetical.

There are numerous reasons to prefer PoW over PoS, but I'm going to guess it'll be pointless to have this argument now. Preferring one or the other is a major point of divergent opinions, as far as I can tell.

The cost to 51% attack Bitcoin is roughly 10% of Bitcoin marketcap, or around $500-$600 million, this is enough to buy more than enough hardware to vastly outnumber the current miners, agreed?

Now if Bitcoin is proof of stake, you need to buy 51% of all Bitcoin available. It's not going to cost you 10%, nor 100%, but more like 1000% or more of Bitcoin marketcap to purchase 51% of all Bitcoin available.

So how can you argue that compared to PoS, PoW is not cheap and easy to attack?

There's no real difference between Bitcoin and PoW altcoins, other than Bitcoin is far bigger. But still, if the attacker has large enough resources, he could attack Bitcoin. Just like current miners find it real cheap and easy to attack a smaller PoW altcoin. It's at least 100X more difficult to attack Bitcoin if Bitcoin was PoS, just like no one could attack even a tiny PoS altcoin, due to cost.

[Wilhelm]

May I conclude that the OP is considered "weak hands" ?

[ElectricMucus]

BFLs lint is finally sparkling and when it blows there can be suckers dumping their coins in order to recoup their losses they suffered from BFL.

[XxionxX]

May I conclude that the OP is considered "weak hands" ?

That would mean OP actually holds bitcoin and is willing to sell. Even if they are holding what is to say they aren't FUDing in an attempt at manipulation?

OP didn't even give legit bear claims, just sayin. If you are going to bear be an informed bear who can scare informed bulls. Prodhon is a good example. This thread is weak.