[XMR] Moderated Monero General Discussion Thread

[Anon136]

This thread is for discussion related to monero. I will be moderating this thread. If you are a troll or fudster don’t bother posting here, your post will be deleted. To all others, welcome.

[smooth]

F___t

[xulescu]

F___t

First?

[blaaaaacksuit]

Looks g__d.  Will m__e.

[statdude]

FINALLY

[xulescu]

So, in any case, to break the ice, I think exhausting crowdfunding via Kickstarter and Anon should be a priority and DEFINITELY precede any further discussion of more controversial funding methods.

[Anon136]

So, in any case, to break the ice, I think exhausting crowdfunding via Kickstarter and Anon should be a priority and DEFINITELY precede any further discussion of more controversial funding methods.

My offer stands.

[pa]

Why do some Monero transfer instructions advise to use a mixin of zero? (For example, the MEW funding OP). If you use zero, what can be discovered about you on the blockchain? What is the optimum for personal privacy and what is the optimum for the overall health of Monero? Is there a reason to avoid using a very high mixin?

[xulescu]

Why do some Monero transfer instructions advise to use a mixin of zero? (For example, the MEW funding OP). If you use zero, what can be discovered about you on the blockchain? What is the optimum for personal privacy and what is the optimum for the overall health of Monero? Is there a reason to avoid using a very high mixin?

That must be a slip. If you use zero, then you don't use ring signatures but only stealth addressing. Thus, for a starter, the recipient of the XMR knows your public XMR address. The public at large knows you spent the money but not the destination. I would suggest using 5-10 for personal privacy, depending on paranoia level. The optimum for the network is hard to decide, my preliminary studies indicate that 24 should be sufficient to make deterministic identification NP-hard. This might be wrong, this might be too high or too low, this does not say anything about probabilistic inferences, but only about deterministic ones (i.e. I think you are guaranteed, given no abuses of the network, that you may maintain plausible deniability if everyone used 24 or higher). A very high mixin means at this point only a larger (in bytes) transaction record. This, compounded, leads to blockchain bloat. In the future, transaction fees will be proportional to transaction sizes (in bytes), but that is not the case at this moment.

Hope this answered your questions.

[smooth]

That must be a slip. If you use zero, then you don't use ring signatures but only stealth addressing. Thus, for a starter, the recipient of the XMR knows your public XMR address.

The recipient can only trace to the one time address that was used to send those outputs to you, but not to your public address.

Likewise the sender of those outputs to you can now trace to the one-time address you used to send to the recipient, but not to the recipient's public address.

A very high mixin means at this point only a larger (in bytes) transaction record.

True but the effect is multiplicative on the number of inputs used. So if your transaction spends only a small number of inputs the effect of larger mixes is reduced. Example, spending one input with mix 24 is approximately the same size as 24 inputs with mix 1. (By mix I mean the width of he ring, which is one higher than the input to the wallet; I usually call that mixins rather than mix.) Keeping your wallet tidy of small outputs is useful.

This, compounded, leads to blockchain bloat.

I somewhat object to the term bloat as that somewhat implies excess or useless size. It is neither if it improves your privacy or the privacy of the system generally. It does certainly make the blockchain bigger.

[Mumbles]

Just wanted to state again, what a great job the devs did during the past week. Really appreciate how hard you guys worked and how professional you remained in the worst set of trolling I've seen in a long time. Thank you!

I just wish you would refrain from responding so much to the obvious trolls. It just fills up the threads with nonsense and gives them a larger voice.

[xulescu]

That must be a slip. If you use zero, then you don't use ring signatures but only stealth addressing. Thus, for a starter, the recipient of the XMR knows your public XMR address.

The recipient can only trace to the one time address that was used to send those outputs to you, but not to your public address.

Likewise the sender of those outputs to you can now trace to the one-time address you used to send to the recipient, but not to the recipient's public address.

Smooth is right, my bad.

[PestoQuinty]

I am not a much of a poster, but i like to follow XMR. I think i might enjoy this thread more.

Thank you.

[generalizethis]

So, in any case, to break the ice, I think exhausting crowdfunding via Kickstarter and Anon should be a priority and DEFINITELY precede any further discussion of more controversial funding methods.

My offer stands.

+1

Also, is there a game plan on marketing for when the GUI comes out? I was thinking a "got anonymity?" image with a link to the GUI download. Could post them over the reddit boards (dark web, cryptocoin, and any bitcoin boards that don't insta down vote all things alt). Anyone else have any thoughts on marketing?



Edit: And bitcoin gambling sites, duhhh. That's first

[Anon136]

Off to bed. I hope I can't be blamed for what happens while I'm asleep.

[iourzzz]

So, in any case, to break the ice, I think exhausting crowdfunding via Kickstarter and Anon should be a priority and DEFINITELY precede any further discussion of more controversial funding methods.

Totally agree.

[Bassica]

So, in any case, to break the ice, I think exhausting crowdfunding via Kickstarter and Anon should be a priority and DEFINITELY precede any further discussion of more controversial funding methods.

Good to see that questions asked regarding costs implementing necessary features for a lively future of monero resulted in a renewed (potentially) fruitful discussion about some possibilities. I think, whatever the outcome, it is good to have this issue properly adressed and put higher on the list of priorities of the community as a whole.

I agree with xulescu's statement above. Before considering rigorous changes to core principles (as controversial as those principles may be) we must first try different (less rigorous) alternatives, simply because we all agreed on these rules when we bought in. Changing those during game-time is far from ideal (and very risky). Only if the alternatives do not work, we should re open the discussion regarding post-mine, emission etc.

----

Let's get some structure in this discussion/process.

What funding methods can we think of, or have been thinked of already? Please update this list (which is in random order) and let's use it as a guideline:
1 Crowdfunding per project
2 Miner with dev donation fee (ie instead of 5 to claymore, 2.5 to devs of xmr, 2.5 to dev of the miner)
3 ...
4 ...

When we have a list we could name some alternatives per method. Then the pro's and con's per subitem. The prerequisites/input needed (time, people, data etc). We could also (maybe at a later date) determine when it would be considered a succes (looking at the resources needed to setup). 

I have one addition to this list which is an idea I've been playing with for a while. It's something in between donating and loaning, I will try to work out some details and make a good description before planting this here and let you guys shine some light on it.

[David Latapie]

I could have given you access to the monero-extended account (created for this exact purpose, moderating threads and maintaining OP), so that someone else could take the lead later on (plus monero-extended as the creator would probably give more legitimacy, nothing personal anon). Here, we are stuck with only one person able to moderate.

If interested, contact me.

[smooth]

I could have given you access to the monero-extended account (created for this exact purpose, moderating threads and maintaining OP), so that someone else could take the lead later on (plus monero-extended as the creator would probably give more legitimacy, nothing personal anon). Here, we are stuck with only one person able to moderate.

If interested, contact me.

Oh damn, my fault. I forgot about monero-extended. Not much here yet though, so perfectly reasonable to lock and restart.

[David Latapie]

Done.
Anon, you can lock this topic and I will send you the PM for the Monero-extended account.