Why is buysellbitco.in shut down when others still run?

[foobarjohndoe]

I had heard a lot of positive recommendations about buysellbitco.in but they are now shut down.
When services like Unocoin, etc. still run, why is this site shut down?

[Benson Samuel]

I had heard a lot of positive recommendations about buysellbitco.in but they are now shut down.
When services like Unocoin, etc. still run, why is this site shut down?

The site has not shut down. There is a new business plan in play for them. Check out Zebpay.

[foobarjohndoe]

The site has not shut down. There is a new business plan in play for them. Check out Zebpay.

Over here (http://www.nextbigwhat.com/post-rbi-warning-bitcoin-operators-india-shut-op-ed-conduct-raids-297/) they say:

In a parallel development, raids have also begun against bitcoin operators. According to DNA, the ED has conducted raids against bitcoin vendor Mahim Gupta from Ahmedabad, who provides trading through buysellbitco.in. The ED have alleged that the site was in violation of Foreign Exchange Management Act rules.

“We have found that through the website 400 persons have recorded 1,000 transactions that amount to a few crores of rupees. We are gathering the data of the transactions, name of the people who have transacted in the virtual currency from Gupta’s server that is hired in the US. At present, we believe that this is a violation of foreign exchange regulations of the country. If we are able to establish money laundering aspect then he can be arrested,” said an ED official to DNA. ED officials estimate the value of transactions to be around INR 20-30 cr. Raids were also conducted in the Satellite area of Ahmedabad.

Clearly they have NOT gone down to come up with a new "business plan". They've gone down because of legal reasons. They say so on their website too.

I'm wondering how Unocoin is different in this regard. The last I want is to trade some BTCs for INRs, pay tax like a good citizen, then Unocoin gets raided and they come after me wasting my time asking me questions.

[buysellbitcoin]

Hi foobarjohndoe ( Nice name )

Let me clear few things...
1. We suspended operations before raid The reason was RBI cautionary notice and we wanted to get legal opinion. Raid happened after that.
2. The news reports are full of misinformation. We have never been charged with anything like FEMA ( We never dealt with foreign exchange or foreign currency or cash ) etc. Some report said we were operating from fake address which is false claim. We always had both the addresses listed on our website. Some report said I got arrested, which is very wrong. Anyways dont want to go much in detail on those issues as you never win against media and bureaucracy. I still say this proudly that I started first Bitcoin exchange in India allowed people to easily buy and sell Bitcoins. We were the first one who allowed purchase via Netbanking.We were the first one who have introduced KYC AML compliance. Almost all OTC models in India has copied our business model. You will not find single complaint against our services or ethics ( Yes, I am sorry we used to go out of stock lot of times ). Most of the Bitcoin business, community and Bitcoiners in India know me personally

As far as business concerns, we are coming back with a new business plan. We have already unveiled our new product Zebpay. Buysellbitco.in will start again in near future with new business plan. Major reason behind not restarting buysellbitco.in was business decision rather than legal. As I run that business, I understand the limitations of business model. That business model can not sustain in bitcoin illiquid countries like India. It can not go to volumes and turnover where you can sustain security, compliance and regulatory standards it required keeping hedging risks in mind. Also I was single handedly  running that business ( we had staff but not for management ) in terms of management and its impossible to scale it without having proper team in place. After suspension  I researched lot of business models, received lot of offers from various sectors about partnerships, acquisition, relaunch but unfortunately no deal worked out. Now we have solid team in place and we are working very hard towards our new business model. I hope we will be able to do something good ( checkout zebpay.com )

As far as regulatory issue concerns I will advise you to make sure you record all your Bitcoin transactions along with its values in INR and put it on record. You should be fine if you are not doing anything illegal and paying your taxes.

Regards,
Mahin Gupta

[foobarjohndoe]

Hi foobarjohndoe ( Nice name )

Let me clear few things...
1. We suspended operations before raid The reason was RBI cautionary notice and we wanted to get legal opinion. Raid happened after that.
2. The news reports are full of misinformation. We have never been charged with anything like FEMA ( We never dealt with foreign exchange or foreign currency or cash ) etc. Some report said we were operating from fake address which is false claim. We always had both the addresses listed on our website. Some report said I got arrested, which is very wrong. Anyways dont want to go much in detail on those issues as you never win against media and bureaucracy. I still say this proudly that I started first Bitcoin exchange in India allowed people to easily buy and sell Bitcoins. We were the first one who allowed purchase via Netbanking.We were the first one who have introduced KYC AML compliance. Almost all OTC models in India has copied our business model. You will not find single complaint against our services or ethics ( Yes, I am sorry we used to go out of stock lot of times ). Most of the Bitcoin business, community and Bitcoiners in India know me personally

As far as business concerns, we are coming back with a new business plan. We have already unveiled our new product Zebpay. Buysellbitco.in will start again in near future with new business plan. Major reason behind not restarting buysellbitco.in was business decision rather than legal. As I run that business, I understand the limitations of business model. That business model can not sustain in bitcoin illiquid countries like India. It can not go to volumes and turnover where you can sustain security, compliance and regulatory standards it required keeping hedging risks in mind. Also I was single handedly  running that business ( we had staff but not for management ) in terms of management and its impossible to scale it without having proper team in place. After suspension  I researched lot of business models, received lot of offers from various sectors about partnerships, acquisition, relaunch but unfortunately no deal worked out. Now we have solid team in place and we are working very hard towards our new business model. I hope we will be able to do something good ( checkout zebpay.com )

As far as regulatory issue concerns I will advise you to make sure you record all your Bitcoin transactions along with its values in INR and put it on record. You should be fine if you are not doing anything illegal and paying your taxes.

Regards,
Mahin Gupta

Hi Mahin,

It's awesome to see that you're on this forum

Who else can best answer these questions about Buyselbitco.in?

Since you say the media distorted all the news, may I ask what *really* happened?
What was the "raid" for?
(You were KYC compliant. You were just providing a platform for people exchange Bitcoins for money. This is very much equivalent to selling softwares or taking money for selling bits on your computer. What was the problem then?)

On your website it says:

    Post the RBI circular, we are suspending buy and sell operations until we can outline a clearer framework with which to work.This is being done to protect the interest of our customers and in no way is a reflection of Bitcoin's true potential or price.

Why do you reference the RBI circular if the reason is a personal one to help achieve your business goal?
Where does the RBI circular say anything about a business model? The circular seems to be about legality, doesn't it?

Congrats on Zebpay but if I understand right, it is not an (Fiat) exchange in anyway.


As far as why I'm worried about legalities is this situation:
- I earn BTCs from donations, freelance work, etc. (all legal stuff)
- I sell BTCs on Unocoin, etc.
- The government comes knocking on my doors asking me how I earned the BTCs.

I would have done nothing wrong, but it still seems like a huge change in lifestyle for a law-abiding citizen to be pulled out and questioned like that.

In the future if BTCs are banned or regulated that means I'm in hot soup.

The very fact that they take our details just to give them out to the government seems like we're getting into a honey pot to me.

Of course, I'm a noob at BTCs and I'm asking for your help trying to understand how I can legally sell my BTCs. I'm not arguing. My tone in this message is rather calm and questioning

[buysellbitcoin]

Hi foobarjohndoe ( Nice name )

Let me clear few things...
1. We suspended operations before raid The reason was RBI cautionary notice and we wanted to get legal opinion. Raid happened after that.
2. The news reports are full of misinformation. We have never been charged with anything like FEMA ( We never dealt with foreign exchange or foreign currency or cash ) etc. Some report said we were operating from fake address which is false claim. We always had both the addresses listed on our website. Some report said I got arrested, which is very wrong. Anyways dont want to go much in detail on those issues as you never win against media and bureaucracy. I still say this proudly that I started first Bitcoin exchange in India allowed people to easily buy and sell Bitcoins. We were the first one who allowed purchase via Netbanking.We were the first one who have introduced KYC AML compliance. Almost all OTC models in India has copied our business model. You will not find single complaint against our services or ethics ( Yes, I am sorry we used to go out of stock lot of times ). Most of the Bitcoin business, community and Bitcoiners in India know me personally

As far as business concerns, we are coming back with a new business plan. We have already unveiled our new product Zebpay. Buysellbitco.in will start again in near future with new business plan. Major reason behind not restarting buysellbitco.in was business decision rather than legal. As I run that business, I understand the limitations of business model. That business model can not sustain in bitcoin illiquid countries like India. It can not go to volumes and turnover where you can sustain security, compliance and regulatory standards it required keeping hedging risks in mind. Also I was single handedly  running that business ( we had staff but not for management ) in terms of management and its impossible to scale it without having proper team in place. After suspension  I researched lot of business models, received lot of offers from various sectors about partnerships, acquisition, relaunch but unfortunately no deal worked out. Now we have solid team in place and we are working very hard towards our new business model. I hope we will be able to do something good ( checkout zebpay.com )

As far as regulatory issue concerns I will advise you to make sure you record all your Bitcoin transactions along with its values in INR and put it on record. You should be fine if you are not doing anything illegal and paying your taxes.

Regards,
Mahin Gupta

Hi Mahin,

It's awesome to see that you're on this forum

Who else can best answer these questions about Buyselbitco.in?

Since you say the media distorted all the news, may I ask what *really* happened?
What was the "raid" for?
(You were KYC compliant. You were just providing a platform for people exchange Bitcoins for money. This is very much equivalent to selling softwares or taking money for selling bits on your computer. What was the problem then?)

On your website it says:

    Post the RBI circular, we are suspending buy and sell operations until we can outline a clearer framework with which to work.This is being done to protect the interest of our customers and in no way is a reflection of Bitcoin's true potential or price.

Why do you reference the RBI circular if the reason is a personal one to help achieve your business goal?
Where does the RBI circular say anything about a business model? The circular seems to be about legality, doesn't it?

Congrats on Zebpay but if I understand right, it is not an (Fiat) exchange in anyway.


As far as why I'm worried about legalities is this situation:
- I earn BTCs from donations, freelance work, etc. (all legal stuff)
- I sell BTCs on Unocoin, etc.
- The government comes knocking on my doors asking me how I earned the BTCs.

I would have done nothing wrong, but it still seems like a huge change in lifestyle for a law-abiding citizen to be pulled out and questioned like that.

In the future if BTCs are banned or regulated that means I'm in hot soup.

The very fact that they take our details just to give them out to the government seems like we're getting into a honey pot to me.

Of course, I'm a noob at BTCs and I'm asking for your help trying to understand how I can legally sell my BTCs. I'm not arguing. My tone in this message is rather calm and questioning

Hi foobarjohndoe,

We have suspended operations after RBI circular as we wanted to take legal opinion on RBI circular. Before that circular there was no information from RBI and we were doing business as per best legal practices and legal advise we have received. After RBI circular we wanted to seek legal opinion and for that we had temporarily suspended operations. The issue started after that as our premises were searched by government agencies. Why they did that, well only RBI or those agencies can answer that but most probably they wanted to learn more about how it works and wanted to see if there is anything illegal going on or not, which is very fair in my opinion.

As I have already said we suspended business operations after circular and thats why our notice references it. Not resuming operations after that is business decision.

Zebpay is simple bitcoin spedning mobile wallet so your friends, family, clients does not have to be geek to start using Bitcoins. You can simply ask them to install this app and verify their number and there they are ready to start using Bitcoin. Yes its that simple. We are not providing buying and selling features to all user's at the moment but our system does have this capability bu more about that in future when we have all pieces together on board.


As far as your personal usage of Bitcoin concerns accepting Bitcoin for your services is fine. Selling it on Unocin is fine as you will receive your payment in your bank account. This is all fine as long as your services and business is legal and you are paying applicable taxes.

Accepting donations is not recommended if you are accepting it for any non profit as that area is still in grey because of legal uncertainty. You may need FCRA approval for the same, but please consult your legal counsel for the same.

In the future if Bitcoin is banned in India, yes you should stop using Bitcoins. But it does not mean that all your previous transactions are illegal. To make all your historical transactions illegal government has to make that law retrospective and chances of that are very slim.

I have said this several times here and on lot of other places. Bitcoin is not example of just cutting edge technology, it is also new application for law and regulations. Everyone in this loop including Bitcoin, Governments, people needs time to understand how this is going to work or shape in future. Bitcoin has not yet find its best use case and it will still take some time for Bitcoin to settle in its best use case. Same you can expect for regulations related to Bitcoins.

Regards

[adv.kanishk]

Why do you reference the RBI circular if the reason is a personal one to help achieve your business goal?
Where does the RBI circular say anything about a business model? The circular seems to be about legality, doesn't it?

Congrats on Zebpay but if I understand right, it is not an (Fiat) exchange in anyway.


As far as why I'm worried about legalities is this situation:
- I earn BTCs from donations, freelance work, etc. (all legal stuff)
- I sell BTCs on Unocoin, etc.
- The government comes knocking on my doors asking me how I earned the BTCs.

I would have done nothing wrong, but it still seems like a huge change in lifestyle for a law-abiding citizen to be pulled out and questioned like that.

In the future if BTCs are banned or regulated that means I'm in hot soup.

The very fact that they take our details just to give them out to the government seems like we're getting into a honey pot to me.

Of course, I'm a noob at BTCs and I'm asking for your help trying to understand how I can legally sell my BTCs. I'm not arguing. My tone in this message is rather calm and questioning


[/quote]

If you are geting the bitcoins for freelancer work or via donations then you should document each and everything. The simplest way is to write and receive a mail from each transferor to write in a mail about the volume of bitcoins sent to you and the purpose for such transfer of bitcoin.

Also, you should disclose it in your return that you have bitcoins with you and if you buy/sell the bitcoins then do not engage in cash transaction and only use the method of net banking. For security purpose you should buy/sell bitcoins through an exchange only, which I read that you are already doing through Unocoin.

Rest if you have any other legal query you may ask me.

Regards
Kanishk Agarwal
Advocate
CriTaxCorp
Criminal-Taxation-Corporate
+91-9971666252

[KJBit]

Hi Mahin,

Pleased to find out somebody is working on a bitcoin wallet in India. Can't wait for it to be launched.

By the way, just out of curiosity, how did you come up with the name Zebpay?

[buysellbitcoin]

Hi KJBit,

Answered this in other zebpay thread.

Here just for, the sake of it

Zebpay, well, we worked really hard to come up with good brand name that is catchy and can be differentiated from other players in this crowded market. We had setup few constraints on choosing brand name :

1. We wanted it to be very different.
2. We did not want web 2.0 names like webio etc because that space is too crowded now for any meaningful name and it is tough to market.
3. Zeb ventures is umbrella group starting with zebpay as wallet/payment solutions. So our main branding must be unique across other segments we want to  expand in future. This is tough one as finding main brand identity uniquely available across various segments is tough.
4. We do not want to have bit, crypto, coin as they are tough to market and domain squatting has been done to death.
5. As our services are financial services we do not want to be creative with spelling morphing as that might go wrong with phishing sites appearing in future. Name has to be very simple to spell.
6. Having character like animal, bird, cartoon is much easier to brand initially ( this is general perception and not baked by any scientific research, but we buy this )
6. We like zebra, as zebras have few unique properties. Their stripes come in different patterns, unique to each individual. They are generally social animals. Zebras have never been truly domesticated. We were able to establish connections between Zeb ventures culture, brand and product suite with this features.

And on top of everything,

We wanted people to ask this question, How did you come up with name zebpay

Regards

[KJBit]

We wanted people to ask this question, How did you come up with name zebpay Smiley

Ha! Mission accomplished I suppose. 

Thanks for the detailed answer though.

[cuddaloreappu]

Can i please know when  buysellbitco.in was launched in India?

you are really an early adopter of this business!

[buysellbitcoin]

Can i please know when  buysellbitco.in was launched in India?

you are really an early adopter of this business!

Buysellbitco.in was launched in  Jan 2013.

Regards

[americandesi]

Hi KJBit,

Answered this in other zebpay thread.

Here just for, the sake of it

Zebpay, well, we worked really hard to come up with good brand name that is catchy and can be differentiated from other players in this crowded market. We had setup few constraints on choosing brand name :

1. We wanted it to be very different.
2. We did not want web 2.0 names like webio etc because that space is too crowded now for any meaningful name and it is tough to market.
3. Zeb ventures is umbrella group starting with zebpay as wallet/payment solutions. So our main branding must be unique across other segments we want to  expand in future. This is tough one as finding main brand identity uniquely available across various segments is tough.
4. We do not want to have bit, crypto, coin as they are tough to market and domain squatting has been done to death.
5. As our services are financial services we do not want to be creative with spelling morphing as that might go wrong with phishing sites appearing in future. Name has to be very simple to spell.
6. Having character like animal, bird, cartoon is much easier to brand initially ( this is general perception and not baked by any scientific research, but we buy this )
6. We like zebra, as zebras have few unique properties. Their stripes come in different patterns, unique to each individual. They are generally social animals. Zebras have never been truly domesticated. We were able to establish connections between Zeb ventures culture, brand and product suite with this features.

And on top of everything,

We wanted people to ask this question, How did you come up with name zebpay

Regards

+1. Congrats on your new venture mate. All the best.!
Have been off the scene for a couple of months but was following imp news. Dropped by to wish you.

Regards,
AD

[cuddaloreappu]

I have seen zebras in Mysore zoo they are quite amazing...

good luck with your ventures...

I am sure you will be an early bird and become successful whatever business you choose!

[buysellbitcoin]

+1. Congrats on your new venture mate. All the best.!
Have been off the scene for a couple of months but was following imp news. Dropped by to wish you.

Regards,
AD

Thanks for your wishes, mate.

Regards

[buysellbitcoin]

I have seen zebras in Mysore zoo they are quite amazing...

good luck with your ventures...

I am sure you will be an early bird and become successful whatever business you choose!

Thanks

Regards