Ready to admit bitcoin is a failure?

[sublime5447]

Two Kinds of Money

1.The Scarcity Model: A single uniform quantity in limited supply made valuable by its own scarcity.
In other words, the value of this type of money depends on the supply of, and demand for, the money commodity itself. Conventional definitions of money define money only in terms of this model, a "medium of exchange". Examples are: cowries, gold and silver, fiat cash and coins, bank credit, and now, in the model's purest and most spectacularly speculative form, Bitcoin.

2. The Abundance Model. A promise of something specific from someone specific made valuable by its redemption in real production. The value of this type of money is defined by the promised redemption in goods and/or services. As such, this type of money is promises of an indefinite number of non-uniform commodities in indefinite supply and, unlike the limited quantity "coin" concept of money, the total quantity of these credits in circulation does not affect their value, because the value of a credit is defined by what its issuer will redeem it for in real goods and/or services. Examples are: business-to-business barter credits, customer rewards, travel points, discount coupons, mutual credit systems.

These views focus on the current and future properties of money, a credit money always have a risk of default, so the value of it worth much less than value-already-paid money

From my view, there are only two kinds of money: Monopolistic money which are forced to be used, and free money which people use voluntarily

When central bank have monopole on money creation, they could create what ever theory to support their money and there will be no one knows if they are true. But if there are competitors, people will find out by themselves

Dude I dont know what you dont get about it? There is no such thing as value already paid money all money is a debt! I freaks me out that you think when you get bitcoin you have been paid. The only way that is true is if what you wanted was bitcoin.

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[kimosan]

A $5 Billion failure... think I'll keep playing tyvm.

Nice incendiary title btw.

[JimminyCricket]

A $5 Billion failure... think I'll keep playing tyvm.

Nice incendiary title btw.

...Soon to be $4 Billion

[Traffic4u]

Bitcoin, like everything, have an up and down of its price. Guys, it needs times for the people to accept BTC in their lives.
When i say times i say generation, because try to explain BTC to a person 70-80 years old..

Why the ppl think always to convert btc>usd  , btc>eur ?  Think only to BTC !

bitcoin is not widely enough used and accepted so that many things are priced in terms of bitcoin. It is also generally considered to be a speculative asset that people hope will increase in value

[Hollingsworth]

Is it not too early to call this great experiment in virtual currency, null and void?

[sublime5447]

Is it not too early to call this great experiment in virtual currency, null and void?

For sure, I am not saying that digital currency is a failure, I am saying we have not made a digital currency we have made a digital asset. Virtual currency is thousands of years old the first currency was virtual in the form of a promise to pay.

[solex]

Is it not too early to call this great experiment in virtual currency, null and void?

For sure, I am not saying that digital currency is a failure, I am saying we have not made a digital currency we have made a digital asset. Virtual currency is thousands of years old the first currency was virtual in the form of a promise to pay.

There is no double top. A double top has peaks separated by weeks to months.
...
Those peaks are on the 1st and 4th of Feb, which is three days. The pattern being formed is pretty clearly a bullish wedge. Not a guarantee that we'll break $21.5/$22, but an indicator that its likely.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg30zigHourlyztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv

There is absolutely a bullish wedge on the hourly chart.
Also, look how fast the retrace is out of the dips. Like a cat on a hot tin roof.
Bitcoin is already putting a floor in at $21...

Yep, just waking up and seeing this. I think we've already touched $22.00/BTC.

To me, this is both exciting and disappointing. It's exciting because I'm holding a good bit of BTC in my wallet. It's disappointing because I fear that we might be heading into the "danger zone". A bunch of amateur speculators buying something like crazy rarely ends well. Another Bitcoin bubble and crash could be very bad for the BTC's long-term future.

--ATC--

Very surprised by your analyses, I think we might be in complete agreement. I am very bearish btc right now. I was getting bearish at 19. 

Still feeling the pain of not buying in at $19 ?

[tljenson]

you know, it's kind of funny because most people talk about how bitcoin is going to save everyone from tyranny, but they're always talking about the price. it seems like people are looking for it to explode within a relatively short amount of time, and when that doesn't happen, it's a "failure." nevermind that we are getting tons and tons of venture capitalist money, or that we have some really big companies accepting bitcoin.

I am not talking about its price I am talking about its lack of utility and a market price. I am also pointing out that BTC had its day in the sun and people dont want it, but why dont they want it? because it doesn't fix any problems in their lives. Bitcoin has nothing to offer.

I think everybody in the forum is insane it takes time. If the first users of bitcoin had the kind of attitude I hear in the forum bitcoin would never have gotten off the ground. For heaven sakes its a whole new currency, and it is had huge success over just a few years, give it time for god sakes.

[BIT-Sharon]

The one with perfect system which can't be replaced of any other coin is the product made by many engineers. We should not call it a failure at any time, though it is in low. For speculators, there is no success or failure of Bitcoin, any condition is just the low point or high point for them to consider if buy and sell or not.

[redsn0w]

The one with perfect system which can't be replaced of any other coin is the product made by many engineers. We should not call it a failure at any time, though it is in low. For speculators, there is no success or failure of Bitcoin, any condition is just the low point or high point for them to consider if buy and sell or not.

Yes , you're right . It is a fail only for the speculators not for the 99% of the ppl ( that believe in the bitcoin protocol) .

[Spoetnik]

Just wondering how many people are ready to admit that it isn't gonna have main stream adoption?

I want to talk about why and what can be changed to fix bitcoin, but first we have to admit there is a problem.   

Not having "main stream adoption" does not make it a failure in my eyes..
and how do you clarify that ?
seems to me it already does have it.

[Joecker]

Buttcoin magic beans is a failure as a currency, had it been created for that purpose.

Buttoinc is pathological gamblers' worst nightmare

Buttoinc is scamers' and hackers' dream.

Buttoinc had the potential to be a international money transfer alternative for individuals and tiny amounts (< $ 10k/month, ie salary transfer without taxes, resulting in m/b-illions of $ losses for the countries involved).

With more regulations (=limiting its use), with less (honest!) exchanges and with more and more scams, and also thanks to price dropping, buttcoin will fade away : market cap $ 100M (2% of current) one year from now. But number of transaction etc will remain more or less the same for indefinite period of time.

Eventually if not already it will be used only for gambling and scamming.

So yeah, bitcoin is a failure except for a few hundred people:
- early hoarders / miners
- scammers/hackers

[totemITnow]

I am also pointing out that BTC had its day in the sun and people dont want it, but why dont they want it? because it doesn't fix any problems in their lives. Bitcoin has nothing to offer.

I spent so much on international bank wire fees in my lifetime, but fortunatelly I dont anymore because of Bitcoin. But I agree, most people dont have any incentive to use Bitcoin, but for the minority who has, Bitcoin has a lot to offer

[Searing]

how low can it go...

I had a buddy who passed away before BTC ..but he would have loved this stuff...worked for NASA.....

bums me out he is not around.....for the ride....he woulda hoarded this stuff till the last guy standing ...I've absolutely no doubt...

so I will HODL so to speak....he surely would have and dragging me along would have made this bet anyway and probably with me saying the usual "hey this is dumb"

he'd have been amused if it went 'beanie baby' and/or btc does well...the amusement factor in either direction would be a constant....

so anyway.....with that in mind....riding it all the way down or all the way up...chump or champ are the only outcomes...

WTF ...a guy has to keep this all in perspective ..so to his memory....one last ride with this in mind.....I don't do enough stupid stuff anymore anyway....

(we had a computer biz together...ran a large bbs game server....roommates in univ....again WTF...at least I'm doing something daring again....)

damn.....reality sucks.....but I am damn sure of the above....sure miss getting talked into stupid endeavors....

so this either works well or I am gonna have alot of 'virtual $$$" only worth 'virtual anything" to me lol

[bee7]

Buttcoin magic beans is a failure as a currency, had it been created for that purpose.

Buttoinc is pathological gamblers' worst nightmare

Buttoinc is scamers' and hackers' dream.

Buttoinc had the potential to be a international money transfer alternative for individuals and tiny amounts (< $ 10k/month, ie salary transfer without taxes, resulting in m/b-illions of $ losses for the countries involved).

With more regulations (=limiting its use), with less (honest!) exchanges and with more and more scams, and also thanks to price dropping, buttcoin will fade away : market cap $ 100M (2% of current) one year from now. But number of transaction etc will remain more or less the same for indefinite period of time.

Eventually if not already it will be used only for gambling and scamming.

So yeah, bitcoin is a failure except for a few hundred people:
- early hoarders / miners
- scammers/hackers

Signature:
Wow 0.1% House Edge Woof!999Dice.com Y U Steal I money??

Your signature is a confirmation of all you said, is it? Are you a gambling addict or a scammer/hacker?

[Clegg]

how low can it go...

It can go to zero, or very close to that... but I doubt it will get even into double figures any time soon. I'm conflicted with bitcoin. I believe in it, but the price constantly dropping is very disheartening. It's hard for me to invest money into it when this keeps happening.

[ObscureBean]

I think Bitcoin adoption is slow because the internet is still relatively new and there is a vast majority of people who do not have access to the internet. When considering developed nations, there are still a lot of functional members of society who were born at a time when there was no internet. A lot of those people have not successfully integrated the internet into their lives. Since Bitcoin is internet dependent at this time, it shouldn't be surprising that it's not spreading that fast. If we were in 2034 right now, I bet BTC would've already spread like wild fire across the world.

[Dr. Pepper]

I think Bitcoin adoption is slow because the internet is still relatively new and there is a vast majority of people who do not have access to the internet. When considering developed nations, there are still a lot of functional members of society who were born at a time when there was no internet. A lot of those people have not successfully integrated the internet into their lives. Since Bitcoin is internet dependent at this time, it shouldn't be surprising that it's not spreading that fast. If we were in 2034 right now, I bet BTC would've already spread like wild fire across the world.

What? The internet is not relatively new. Even in developing nations they have access to the internet somewhere and this is becoming more and more accessible every week. Bitcoin doesn't even need developing nations anyway as it can function and thrive greatly everywhere else, but developing nations will likely get involved at a later date once they see the benefits.

[the joint]

I can see mass bankruptsy of small miners in the chart below.
In the previous years the difficulty was clearly following the price of Bitcoin, now they have detached. The difficulty keeps growing as a result of massive investments by large mining farms, but the price keeps going down or sideways at best forcing small miners to switch off their equipment. You don't need to be a genius to understand what that implies. The pattern is not the same as in previous years, no matter what they tell you.

There is no causal relationship between hashing and price. Any correlational relationship is purely coincidental. The price people are trading on is based on risky exchanges that people don't trust anymore after Mt Gox. You can claim anything you want, but your dataset is too small. Using the term "bankruptcy" is purely inflammatory.

When you base your predictions for future price patterns ("Bitcoin went from $32 to $2 and then to $1000 so it will recover again and go to $5000"), somehow the dataset is not too small, but in this chart the dataset is not enough, although it covers all of Bitcoin's history. Makes perfect sense

This isn't so much a response to you, cbeast, but rather at everyone in general because I'm getting tired of seeing the same (wrong) assertion put forth over and over.

There absolutely is, and always has been, a causal relationship between difficulty (not exactly hashing, but close enough) and price.  It's a bidirectional relationship.   Difficulty affects price and vice versa.  It is not now, nor will it ever be, a one-way function.

[RodeoX]

Apparently bitcoin is a failure if it failed to make us rich? Bitcoin is actually a computer protocol that is now more widely accepted than ever. It also does not care about us and our desires for money.