Loan requested - Business startup

[Vod]

Vod keeps insisting on offering collateral.   I have offered MUCH collateral.   I think it is a very useful invention for someone to create a surefire way of offering coin loans on titles, and there is a demand out there as I have demonstrated in my past posts.

I think your collateral offerings have been lost in the slew of posts.  It might be best if you create a new thread, list what you want and list your collateral exactly, keeping in mind what is and is not proper.  Collateral must be in-hand. 

I will even offer to hold your LTC (I charge a 1% escrow fee) and then I can state that you have so much in collateral.  Then you can get your loan and still keep your LTC.

[slu2]

Vod keeps insisting on offering collateral.   I have offered MUCH collateral.   I think it is a very useful invention for someone to create a surefire way of offering coin loans on titles, and there is a demand out there as I have demonstrated in my past posts.

I think your collateral offerings have been lost in the slew of posts.  It might be best if you create a new thread, list what you want and list your collateral exactly, keeping in mind what is and is not proper.  Collateral must be in-hand.  

I will even offer to hold your LTC (I charge a 1% escrow fee) and then I can state that you have so much in collateral.  Then you can get your loan and still keep your LTC.

Proving that I have control over a wallet would be easier, and cheaper, if at the end I still keep the LTC.  
I don't have $5000 worth of LTC, as I state earlier I have several hundred LTC.  

The other property that I have to offer can even be found in my signature.   I can offer a lien on that 4 plex in my signature for a loan sizing between $30k USD and 50k USD.

I have a few really nice SUV's.    One of them is for sale in my newspaper, the Chevy Tahoe;   http://www.clovisstar.com/the-clovis-star-quarterly/

I can offer a lien on that, or even easier, someone could hold the title.

[Vod]

Proving that I have control over a wallet would be easier, and cheaper, if at the end I still keep the LTC.  

That doesn't work.  Your LTC would not be "in-hand", so it would not be collateral.   

[ANTIcentralized]

You are not asking for a SBA loan. You are asking for a loan that will be given in a way such that it will be very difficult to force you to pay the lender back. It is not a guarantee that the ID documents provided to BTC jam are yours nor is it a guarantee that the other various accounts you used to 'verify' your identity were not purchased/stolen/hacked.

Even if the identity information does belong to you it is not cost efficient for lenders to go after you in court in the event you do not pay as most lenders only lend a very small amount. The result is that the only real consequence to you not paying your loan will be that a bunch of people who will never meet you will know that you are a deadbeat.

The most common form of equity that a business owner will have will be in the form of assets, either inventory (as mentioned above) or assets that help you produce income (a taxi for example if you own a taxi service) or assets that help you produce your product (like a factory). Owner's of a small business very rarely have equity in the form of cash.

If you are so willing to use the SBA as an argument as to why you should get this loan then I would suggest going to the SBA to apply for a loan from them.

I used the SBA structure as a compatible scenario is all.  I am trying to explain why giving away my operating capital to be held by the lender, to get a loan is counter productive is all, and this is a reason why it doesn't make sense for banks to penalize someone with operating capital.   People don't just get loans so that they can pay interest on what they already have.   I've never saw a loan work that way.

But I prefer coin.  As I stated, one of the major operating points in our business is our Bitcoin ATM.  

I have been buying and selling properties with Bitcoin and Litecoin for years.   My business is a Bitcoin base business.  So getting a bitcoin loan seems more fitting than a fiat loan.

If you look at my signature I am selling my 4 plex for coin as well.

As for verifying my identity.  Show me ANYONE here who has done more to verify their identity.
How many people have video recorded themselves at their place of employment?   How many have video recorded themselves at all?
How many have gotten verified at multiple different sources?   BTCJam verification is a little lenient, but ardveda is not.   Where I pay a $1 with my credit card, then look on my bank statements for a special code and verify it.   Send my ID, and video record myself with the ID.   Mailings to my home address, etc.     I mean ya it could possibly be faked, but it would be awfully difficult.
One guy on here has called and verified with my neighbors near my business, so far he has called two of them.  
I doubt anyone here has done more than me to verify their identity.

But you are right about it being difficult for someone to pursue legal action over $5000 worth of coin, or $5000 worth of anything.
It's a pretty tiny amount.

If people don't feel comfortable with what I have offered.  If people don't want to take collateral that I have offered for the loan.   If it over all just doesn't seem worth it, for whatever reason.  Well, then they will move on to something else that is worth their time.

But I have done my best to make this secure and beneficial for everyone.   Vod keeps insisting on offering collateral.   I have offered MUCH collateral.   I think it is a very useful invention for someone to create a surefire way of offering coin loans on titles, and there is a demand out there as I have demonstrated in my past posts.

The collateral you are offering is title to vehicles and most people on here have zero experience repoing a vehicle nor do they understand the costs and risks associated with accepting a vehicle (title) as collateral. If people do not understand the risks and costs associated with something they will not get involved in it.

You are incorrect to say that it does not make sense for a person to go after you for $5,000 as this is not true. If you owe someone $5,000 your case would probably not even be eligible for small claims court. Credit card companies, and other lenders will routinely go after deadbeats for this amount and less. The problem is that you are not borrowing $5,000 from someone. You are borrowing much smaller amounts from several people that will add up to $5,000. There is no efficient way for all these lenders to act as a group to attempt to recover their money. As of ~a hour ago, the most someone has offered to lend you is .1 BTC which is worth roughly $40, this is an amount that would certainly not be worth going after someone for.

Even if your identity is in fact yours, it does not mean anything as the identity of a dead beat is worth very little to anyone.

Vod keeps insisting on offering collateral.   I have offered MUCH collateral.   I think it is a very useful invention for someone to create a surefire way of offering coin loans on titles, and there is a demand out there as I have demonstrated in my past posts.

I think your collateral offerings have been lost in the slew of posts.  It might be best if you create a new thread, list what you want and list your collateral exactly, keeping in mind what is and is not proper.  Collateral must be in-hand.  

I will even offer to hold your LTC (I charge a 1% escrow fee) and then I can state that you have so much in collateral.  Then you can get your loan and still keep your LTC.

I think he wants to keep his LTC in his possession/control instead of giving it to an escrow/risking that it be lost in the event he defaults

[Bitcoinbikers]

VOD does not give 2 shits if people get scammed, he only wants the bitcoin price to rise so he can get rich. He is a greedy uneducated immature fat old guy who spends 90% of his time harassing people on this forum. I'd say someone will be putting a bounty on his head one day. Watch out VOD

And to slu2 I think your a great entrepreneur and fair play to you, wishing you all the best with your business

[slu2]

The collateral you are offering is title to vehicles and most people on here have zero experience repoing a vehicle nor do they understand the costs and risks associated with accepting a vehicle (title) as collateral. If people do not understand the risks and costs associated with something they will not get involved in it.

Even if your identity is in fact yours, it does not mean anything as the identity of a dead beat is worth very little to anyone.

So now I am a dead beat?    Again, I believe I have proven my identity better than anyone here.   I asked if you knew of anyone who has done a better job of proving their identity, and so far you have produced so subjects.   But to imply that I am a dead beat?
A dead beat who can prove to be a successful business owner, and a dead beat who can prove that he has the deed to his house.
I pay my bills.  Im no deat beat.

Vod keeps insisting on offering collateral.   I have offered MUCH collateral.   I think it is a very useful invention for someone to create a surefire way of offering coin loans on titles, and there is a demand out there as I have demonstrated in my past posts.

I think your collateral offerings have been lost in the slew of posts.  It might be best if you create a new thread, list what you want and list your collateral exactly, keeping in mind what is and is not proper.  Collateral must be in-hand.  


I will even offer to hold your LTC (I charge a 1% escrow fee) and then I can state that you have so much in collateral.  Then you can get your loan and still keep your LTC.

I think he wants to keep his LTC in his possession/control instead of giving it to an escrow/risking that it be lost in the event he defaults
[/quote]


No, I want to keep my operating capital for business operations, not "in case I default".   LOL
My business operates on coin.  From the Bitcoin ATM, to accepting payments via coinbase.

It's like the example of the burger joint that I used earlier.   If my buddy asked me "hey man, can you lend me $5 so that I can buy a burger"?   I wouldn't even think to asked him  "Only if you will secure the loan with $5".  
I may ask him for his lucky charm, or something.   But I wouldn't loan him something, to be secured by the exact same thing.  ROFL   makes no sense.

[slu2]

And to slu2 I think your a great entrepreneur and fair play to you, wishing you all the best with your business

Thanks!  It's been a great ride so far!   

I challenge anyone who doubts my identity to drop in at  4100 Yellowstone Ave, Suite B, Pocatello ID 83202

Im not hiding!

[slu2]

I think of it like this maybe.

My buddy and I are at the burger joint, and he said  "Hey man, can you lend me $5 so that I can buy a burger".

Then I reply  "Do you have $5 to secure that loan with".

My buddy says "well ya, but I was going to use this for gas..   But ok, here's my $5.   Now can I borrow my $5 back so I can buy a hamburger".

Then I say  "Ya sure, here's your $5 back, now I will charge you interest on this until you pay me back".


Why didn't my friend just keep his $5?    Hmmmm.    Maybe he just wanted to pay me interest on his own money, as a friendly gesture?

LOL  this is getting beyond the drunk ass silly level of stupid.    Im not going to pay you interest on my own freakin money!  LOL  What kind of ponzi scheme is that?

[Window2Wall]

It's like the example of the burger joint that I used earlier.   If my buddy asked me "hey man, can you lend me $5 so that I can buy a burger"?   I wouldn't even think to asked him  "Only if you will secure the loan with $5".  
I may ask him for his lucky charm, or something.   But I wouldn't loan him something, to be secured by the exact same thing.  ROFL   makes no sense.

Your loan would be a collateral loan. If you were to take your friends money and not pay him back either by repaying him the $5 or by buying him of equal value in the future despite your ability to do so then he would probably not be friends with you anymore. Collateral does not need to be in the form of cash but does need to be something greater then the amount being borrowed.

I also find it very interesting that you have a "few hundred" LTC for operating capital for bitcoin ATM. This really does not make any sense. Assuming that a few hundred means 300 then you have roughly 2.9 BTC worth of LTC, which would really not be enough to fund your ATM's operation. IIRC the Robocoin website suggests that you have at least $20,000 "float" for each ATM and you have far from this much.

Even if you were being honest and do repay if you are able to, you are essentially taking no risks with your business as all you are putting in is "sweat equity" while putting all the risk on the lender.

[slu2]

It's like the example of the burger joint that I used earlier.   If my buddy asked me "hey man, can you lend me $5 so that I can buy a burger"?   I wouldn't even think to asked him  "Only if you will secure the loan with $5".  
I may ask him for his lucky charm, or something.   But I wouldn't loan him something, to be secured by the exact same thing.  ROFL   makes no sense.

Your loan would be a collateral loan. If you were to take your friends money and not pay him back either by repaying him the $5 or by buying him of equal value in the future despite your ability to do so then he would probably not be friends with you anymore. Collateral does not need to be in the form of cash but does need to be something greater then the amount being borrowed.

My point the whole time is that coin is coin.  I am looking at this like  Litecoin is basically the same thing as bitcoin.  It holds a steady value to bitcoin, and it trades into bitcoin almost effortlessly on dozens of different exchanges.  
Litecoin is as close to Bitcoin, as metal coins minted by a central org is to paper coins minted by the same org.   Because it converts so easily back and forth.

So if someone (anyone) wanted to borrow $5, either I am going to borrow him the money, or I may ask to hold on to a token.  But I am not going to ask him for an equal amount of currency to hold on to, if he could just as easily use that currency to buy the burger.

It would be like charging him interest on his own money.    Lenders earn interest based on risk.   So if a lender is holding this guy's money as collateral.  The bank is earning money for nothing, because the lender is charging him interest on his own money.   I guess it's like one of those silly secured credit cards.  Where you put money in the bank, and then borrow against it for the sole purpose of raising your credit.   Im not here to increase my credit rating.  I am here to get an interest based loan, where everyone wins.

But I am not going to pay interest to borrow my own money.     If for example I borrowed $0.50 cents from you.   You gave me two quarters, and I let you hang on to 5 dimes for me.   And for this service, you would only charge me 1% interest.  

WTF?   Are you serious?    No one is going to give you an equal amount of currency, just to pay you interest on their own money.   That is the most retarded ponzi scheme that I have ever heard of.

What is this the Federal Reserve banking committee meeting?   ROFL

I can't stand it any more.  I can no longer take this thread seriously.

I also find it very interesting that you have a "few hundred" LTC for operating capital for bitcoin ATM. This really does not make any sense. Assuming that a few hundred means 300 then you have roughly 2.9 BTC worth of LTC, which would really not be enough to fund your ATM's operation. IIRC the Robocoin website suggests that you have at least $20,000 "float" for each ATM and you have far from this much.  

I think you are catching on to #1.  Why I need to borrow coin.   and #2  why I prefer to borrow coin over fiat.

Yes, I need operating capital, this is what I have been telling this thread this whole time.   This is the whole point!  LOL

Even if you were being honest and do repay if you are able to, you are essentially taking no risks with your business as all you are putting in is "sweat equity" while putting all the risk on the lender.

I have offered a lot of risk.   Say for example that all that I gave was a lien on my car, and the title, in exchange for the loan.
That is still a risk, because without the title, and with a lien agreement, that car is of no monetary value to me.   I can't sell a car twice, that would cause me criminal penalties.   So if there was a lien on my car, and I sold it without paying off the lien, if that is even possible, I think it would catch up to someone and bite them in the ass later legally.   There has to be some kind of theft or deception in that.    I do know it's possible to put a lien on a vehicle, and I have offered up a vehicle, therefore I am assuming risk.  Cars are not all that I have offered also, I have offered a lien on my debt free home, for a larger loan.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060830184549AAPTkOx

[slu2]

IIRC the Robocoin website suggests that you have at least $20,000 "float" for each ATM and you have far from this much.

A lot of financial transaction companies are required to have a nominal bond (usually as low as $50,000), and to have between $10,000 and $50,000 in operating capital or assets.   I have that no problem.


I do have a low amount of coins.   Litecoin is not all that I have though.   I have possibly around 4 BTC in LTC, and I also have a variety of other coins, and some bitcoin for the purpose of funding the ATM.   I've actually stayed out of bitcoin investing this last year, and I have traded alts a lot more.   But I trade in to bitcoin when I need to.    I bought some stuff from  SurvivalCampingStore.com, and bought some gift cards, so I convert alts to bitcoin in cases like that.    I almost booked a flight on Expedia last week, but then my plans got cancelled, but I would have used bitcoin for it if I would have needed it.

I am starting to use bitcoin more like cash than an investment. 

[slu2]

I posted this earlier.   But let me be clear, I have offered risk.    Several comments insist that I am offering no risk.

For one, besides giving my identity and exact location explicitly in film, and such.    I have also offered tangible collateral as my risk.

ref my earlier comment

I have offered a lot of risk.   Say for example that all that I gave was a lien on my car, and the title, in exchange for the loan.
That is still a risk, because without the title, and with a lien agreement, that car is of no monetary value to me.   I can't sell a car twice, that would cause me criminal penalties.   So if there was a lien on my car, and I sold it without paying off the lien, if that is even possible, I think it would catch up to someone and bite them in the ass later legally.   There has to be some kind of theft or deception in that.    I do know it's possible to put a lien on a vehicle, and I have offered up a vehicle, therefore I am assuming risk.  Cars are not all that I have offered also, I have offered a lien on my debt free home, for a larger loan.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060830184549AAPTkOx

I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have, to the best of my ability.  Please PM if you have any.

Thanks for your comments.

[tins]

I can't stand it any more.  I can no longer take this thread seriously.

Don't think anybody else is either. It may be time for you to lock it up.

[slu2]

I can't stand it any more.  I can no longer take this thread seriously.

Don't think anybody else is either. It may be time for you to lock it up.

Possibly.  I have another day on this funding offer at BTCJam.  Ive had a few people commit to invest, a few in this thread.   So I continue to update it, so that people who are interested can learn more about our progress.   Which is all that I was doing earlier, before this silly exchange of words broke out.

But since I started the funding process, I have accomplished a lot.

1.  We going our wiring done this morning.  Phone is working.  CC terminal is operating
2.  We received our latest print newspaper in the mail a few days ago
3.  We have got all of our products in and inventoried in our POS system
4.  We have almost all of our fixtures, just waiting on two more   
5.  We are opening on October 20th, with or without the additional funding.

This update and more on video broadcast via youtube;   http://youtube.com/clovisstarmedia

[slu2]

So I finally got real today, and I spoke to a lender that we know.
Looks like I will be borrowing fiat to get this business going in the right direction.
I really tried to stay away from fiat and traditional lending.   

I got reacquainted today why I stay away from traditional funding.    On top of a 10% interest rate, I also have to pay about $4000 lending fees.   Plus they wouldn't lend me a small amount of money like $30k, I had to take MUCH more than that, just to qualify for the loan. 

But the more we work with this guy, the lower our rate will become.   So that works for my benefit.

This is another reason why bitcoin lending is much more efficient.  The closing fees, and escrow etc is much less than traditional lending.


With this funding, I am looking for a developer and possibly a partner to start a bitcoin > title loan company.

If anyone is interested PM me.

Thanks!

[Vod]

It's like the example of the burger joint that I used earlier.   If my buddy asked me "hey man, can you lend me $5 so that I can buy a burger"?   I wouldn't even think to asked him  "Only if you will secure the loan with $5".  
I may ask him for his lucky charm, or something.   But I wouldn't loan him something, to be secured by the exact same thing.  ROFL   makes no sense.

Your analogy is incorrect.

Your buddy would ask you to lend him $5 so he could buy a burger.  You would ask him for his $10 radio shack gift card as collateral.  He could easily turn that card into cash, but he doesn't want to, because he values that gift card.

You are right - it makes no sense to offer cash as collateral for cash.  That's not what we are asking.

Bitcoinbikers scammed on btcjam.  It would be best not to take his advice.  

[r3wt]

if the shit hits the fan on your business, you will have a ton of investor debt. what will you do in such a situation?

[FattyMcButterpants]

So I finally got real today, and I spoke to a lender that we know.
Looks like I will be borrowing fiat to get this business going in the right direction.
I really tried to stay away from fiat and traditional lending.   

I got reacquainted today why I stay away from traditional funding.    On top of a 10% interest rate, I also have to pay about $4000 lending fees.   Plus they wouldn't lend me a small amount of money like $30k, I had to take MUCH more than that, just to qualify for the loan. 

Your BTCjam listing had an APR of over 60% which is much higher then 10%, IIRC it was actually around 68%, and the estimated loss rate was ~64%, giving the lender an effective rate of ~4% (but you would still need to have paid the entire 64%

Although I find it unlikely that you would not have qualified if you took out a smaller loan, if the loan amount was $40k (which is not a *lot* more then $30k, but we can use that figure for illustrative purposes) then a $4k fee for taking out the loan would work out to 10%, and would increase the APR by 40% if you are only taking out a 3 month loan. Add the 40% to the 10% interest rate and you only have an APR of ~50%.

I promise you that bitcoin related lending will not be as efficient as fiat based lending for a long time due to the irreversible nature of bitcoin and the diverse geographic backround of potential borrowers and potential lenders

[slu2]

So I finally got real today, and I spoke to a lender that we know.
Looks like I will be borrowing fiat to get this business going in the right direction.
I really tried to stay away from fiat and traditional lending.   

I got reacquainted today why I stay away from traditional funding.    On top of a 10% interest rate, I also have to pay about $4000 lending fees.   Plus they wouldn't lend me a small amount of money like $30k, I had to take MUCH more than that, just to qualify for the loan. 

Your BTCjam listing had an APR of over 60% which is much higher then 10%, IIRC it was actually around 68%, and the estimated loss rate was ~64%, giving the lender an effective rate of ~4% (but you would still need to have paid the entire 64%

Although I find it unlikely that you would not have qualified if you took out a smaller loan, if the loan amount was $40k (which is not a *lot* more then $30k, but we can use that figure for illustrative purposes) then a $4k fee for taking out the loan would work out to 10%, and would increase the APR by 40% if you are only taking out a 3 month loan. Add the 40% to the 10% interest rate and you only have an APR of ~50%.

I promise you that bitcoin related lending will not be as efficient as fiat based lending for a long time due to the irreversible nature of bitcoin and the diverse geographic backround of potential borrowers and potential lenders

Actually, another benefit with this fiat money lender, is that he is private and we spoke to the source instead of a broker.  We got him to finance us for up to two years, but we are going to pay him much sooner than that to save money on interest.  Its spread out over a 30 year amortization period, with interest only repayments.   For the purposes that we are using it for, this is a great kind of load for us.  It's very flexible.   

Since I retired due to a car accident in 2013, I don't have a lot of credit options.   I have a decent 6 figure income, but nothing really documented yet such as a w-2, most of my income is stated income until next tax year comes around.    For a lot of years I worked for someone else, and I wasn't investing.  So I don't have a lot of recent activity on my section C of my tax forms any more, like I used to.

So now I am building credit and going back to entrepreneurial endeavors.    It's tough going from being a 9-5 employee for 6 years, to going through the pangs of recovering from a really bad car accident, to then being self employed again all of the sudden.

But we have done this before, and we'll do it again.  It's a process.


As for the usefulness of a title loan company.  I really think bitcoin can handle this more effectively than fiat.

This is some more information on it >   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=814278.msg9113320#msg9113320

BTW-  I would have paid everyone back.   You'll see over the years how our business grows.  This isn't our first rodeo. 
But thanks for everyone who did invest!   Maybe next time!

[FattyMcButterpants]

So I finally got real today, and I spoke to a lender that we know.
Looks like I will be borrowing fiat to get this business going in the right direction.
I really tried to stay away from fiat and traditional lending.   

I got reacquainted today why I stay away from traditional funding.    On top of a 10% interest rate, I also have to pay about $4000 lending fees.   Plus they wouldn't lend me a small amount of money like $30k, I had to take MUCH more than that, just to qualify for the loan. 

Your BTCjam listing had an APR of over 60% which is much higher then 10%, IIRC it was actually around 68%, and the estimated loss rate was ~64%, giving the lender an effective rate of ~4% (but you would still need to have paid the entire 64%

Although I find it unlikely that you would not have qualified if you took out a smaller loan, if the loan amount was $40k (which is not a *lot* more then $30k, but we can use that figure for illustrative purposes) then a $4k fee for taking out the loan would work out to 10%, and would increase the APR by 40% if you are only taking out a 3 month loan. Add the 40% to the 10% interest rate and you only have an APR of ~50%.

I promise you that bitcoin related lending will not be as efficient as fiat based lending for a long time due to the irreversible nature of bitcoin and the diverse geographic backround of potential borrowers and potential lenders

Actually, another benefit with this fiat money lender, is that he is private and we spoke to the source instead of a broker.  We got him to finance us for up to two years, but we are going to pay him much sooner than that to save money on interest.  Its spread out over a 30 year amortization period, with interest only repayments.   For the purposes that we are using it for, this is a great kind of load for us.  It's very flexible.   

Since I retired due to a car accident in 2013, I don't have a lot of credit options.   I have a decent 6 figure income, but nothing really documented yet such as a w-2, most of my income is stated income until next tax year comes around.    For a lot of years I worked for someone else, and I wasn't investing.  So I don't have a lot of recent activity on my section C of my tax forms any more, like I used to.

So now I am building credit and going back to entrepreneurial endeavors.    It's tough going from being a 9-5 employee for 6 years, to going through the pangs of recovering from a really bad car accident, to then being self employed again all of the sudden.

But we have done this before, and we'll do it again.  It's a process.

If you have a 30 year repayment period then your effective interest rate is a lot lower then what you would have paid on BTCjam. I am glad you were able to save money by getting a fiat based loan.

This also sounds a lot like a mortgage and sounds a lot like you got a "liar loan" that was very common during the mortgage/housing boom period of the mid 2000's