Cloud mining & trading at the same time on CEX

[SuniX]

Lots of good threads now on mining issues and cloud mining issues in particular. I don't see buying a fixed cloud contract where you can't get your original investment back (either by withdrawal of the contract or having a trading market for it) makes any sense at all. The cloud providers are addressing this by many new entrants starting to offer tradeable contracts (competition to the CEX model).

This week I bought GHS on CEX. The price had just fallen a lot and history shows it then has a bounce back and stability period, plus they announced cloud maintenance reduction. So I held for a few days then sold once I had reached my profit target being 20%. I detail the outcome I saw from the trade and mining rewards whilst I held the contracts:

25/9: Bought 180GHS at 0.00206 = 0.3708 BTC

30/9: Sold 180GHS at 0.002486 = 0.4478 BTC

Trade Profit 0.07668 BTC +20.7% (of initial amount)

Mining Rewards 0.005139 +1.4% (of initial amount)

So in 5 days the trade itself made a 20.7% return and the mined rewards added 1.4%. Thus total return being 22%. (If I'd continued to hold my return today would be more like 37%, oh well..)

On the CEX mining rewards you can see the overall return was positive, what I noted was that the real long blocks 2 hours or so were not, but they were compensated for by the low maintenance cost on the more frequent short time frame blocks. 40 or so blocks were being found each day approx. I see lots of people complain about maintenance fee's, my experience was a good one. Heck even if I had made no profit on the trade itself but can walk away with 1.4% gain from the mining alone in 5 days, that's a great outcome.

So don't buy a fixed cloud contract unless it is tradeable or initial investment can be withdrawn.

I also bought some Doge, still holding that to the moon.....

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[Kprawn]

The Ghs price went down a lot, and then it skyrocketed again. Some whale at work, manipulated the price.

So if you stay on it, when it's in the downward trend, you can make a profit. The maintenance fees, kill you when you have small investments.

I guess if you into it for the trade profits, you might show some profit, but you have to know, when to climb in and when to sell.

I do not have enough GHs to make a dent in a can, and it hurts, when you see the satoshi's melt away from maintenance fees. 

[cyberpinoy]

Lots of good threads now on mining issues and cloud mining issues in particular. I don't see buying a fixed cloud contract where you can't get your original investment back (either by withdrawal of the contract or having a trading market for it) makes any sense at all. The cloud providers are addressing this by many new entrants starting to offer tradeable contracts (competition to the CEX model).

This week I bought GHS on CEX. The price had just fallen a lot and history shows it then has a bounce back and stability period, plus they announced cloud maintenance reduction. So I held for a few days then sold once I had reached my profit target being 20%. I detail the outcome I saw from the trade and mining rewards whilst I held the contracts:

25/9: Bought 180GHS at 0.00206 = 0.3708 BTC

30/9: Sold 180GHS at 0.002486 = 0.4478 BTC

Trade Profit 0.07668 BTC +20.7% (of initial amount)

Mining Rewards 0.005139 +1.4% (of initial amount)

So in 5 days the trade itself made a 20.7% return and the mined rewards added 1.4%. Thus total return being 22%. (If I'd continued to hold my return today would be more like 37%, oh well..)

On the CEX mining rewards you can see the overall return was positive, what I noted was that the real long blocks 2 hours or so were not, but they were compensated for by the low maintenance cost on the more frequent short time frame blocks. 40 or so blocks were being found each day approx. I see lots of people complain about maintenance fee's, my experience was a good one. Heck even if I had made no profit on the trade itself but can walk away with 1.4% gain from the mining alone in 5 days, that's a great outcome.

So don't buy a fixed cloud contract unless it is tradeable or initial investment can be withdrawn.

I also bought some Doge, still holding that to the moon.....

You got lucky, wait until those rewards are countered with CEX.io HUGE maintenance fees on cloud, there are times your reward is negative due to the fees being bigger than the rewards. Make sure you look very very closely at your rewards before you do statistics like this, I bet your table will reflect a whole new set of numbers once you check your balance against your rewards minus the fees. I promise you if you recheck the balances you did not make 1.4% you probably lost 30% on the mining being thier fees are 62% for maintenance. minus the trade fees you are looking at a nice loss of 22% haha. If I were you Id look at the finer things you left out in this message like the trade fees and the maintenance fees.

FYI I have been mining there a log time so no use trying to bullshit me. Cex.io/Ghash.io are the biggest scammers in the world of pools.

I will list a few things for you to determine yourself, along with screenshots to back it up.

My miner report for that block
(5s):1.023T (avg):1.022Th/s | A:3322712 R:5120 HW:22 WU:13.6/m

This was the payout report
17732 2014-08-24 09:49:25 317250 25.0550 1/120 4 hours 46.77 Ph Your shares 1523536/75000007950 0.00% 168878284227 0.00050896

Here is the report from the block cloud mined and its fees.
2014-08-24 18:34:54 0.00050896 BTC   0.00050977   MINING-Block #317250, Reward: 0.00050896
2014-08-24 18:34:54-0.00010196 BTC   0.00040781   MAINTENANCE-Shares 177624 , Cost: -0.00010196

Now if we do a simple mathematical equation it will tell us something interesting

If you can mine 177,624 shares with 50ghash/s of mining power in a 4 hour block, how many shares can you mine with 1000Ghash/s of mining power in a 4 hour block?

Solution 177,624(20) = 3552480

Wow how ironic to see that mathematically the numbers match very closely to what my miner stats output was huh?



NEED MORE PROOF Ok here you go this is for only 50Ghash of their cloud

2014-08-25 10:19:37   -0.00004996 BTC   0.00026826   MAINTENANCE   -   Shares 87032 , Cost: -0.00004996<-------------
2014-08-25 10:19:37    0.00002763 BTC   0.00031822    MINING   -   Block #317346, Reward: 0.00002763<-----------------LOSS of 0.00002233
2014-08-25 08:18:26   -0.00001076 BTC   0.00029059   MAINTENANCE   -   Shares 18744 , Cost: -0.00001076
2014-08-25 08:18:26    0.00002977 BTC   0.00030135    MINING   -   Block #317335, Reward: 0.00002977
2014-08-25 07:54:04   -0.00000207 BTC   0.00027158   MAINTENANCE   -   Shares 3600 , Cost: -0.00000207
2014-08-25 07:54:04    0.00003121 BTC   0.00027365    MINING   -   Block #317333, Reward: 0.00003121
2014-08-25 07:46:58   -0.00004372 BTC   0.00024244   MAINTENANCE   -   Shares 76152 , Cost: -0.00004372<--------------
2014-08-25 07:46:58    0.00003099 BTC   0.00028616    MINING   -   Block #317332, Reward: 0.00003099<------------------LOSS of 0.00001273
2014-08-25 06:03:07   -0.00003185 BTC   0.00025517   MAINTENANCE   -   Shares 55472 , Cost: -0.00003185
2014-08-25 06:03:07    0.00004361 BTC   0.00028702    MINING   -   Block #317324, Reward: 0.00004361
2014-08-25 04:46:45   -0.00002396 BTC   0.00024341    MAINTENANCE   -   Shares 41736 , Cost: -0.00002396
2014-08-25 04:46:45    0.00004588 BTC   0.00026737    MINING   -   Block #317314, Reward: 0.00004588
2014-08-25 03:48:34   -0.00001855 BTC   0.00022149    MAINTENANCE   -   Shares 32304 , Cost: -0.00001855
2014-08-25 03:48:34    0.00004588 BTC   0.00024004    MINING   -   Block #317314, Reward: 0.00004588
2014-08-25 03:03:57   -0.00005255 BTC   0.00019416    MAINTENANCE   -   Shares 91544 , Cost: -0.00005255<---------------
2014-08-25 03:03:57    0.00004122 BTC   0.00024671    MINING   -   Block #317310, Reward: 0.00004122<-------------------LOSS of 0.00001600
2014-08-25 00:59:13   -0.00001266 BTC   0.00020549    MAINTENANCE   -   Shares 22048 , Cost: -0.00001266
2014-08-25 00:59:13    0.00003989 BTC   0.00021815    MINING   -   Block #317298, Reward: 0.00003989

[SuniX]

You got lucky, wait until those rewards are countered with CEX.io HUGE maintenance fees on cloud, there are times your reward is negative due to the fees being bigger than the rewards. Make sure you look very very closely at your rewards before you do statistics like this, I bet your table will reflect a whole new set of numbers once you check your balance against your rewards minus the fees. I promise you if you recheck the balances you did not make 1.4% you probably lost 30% on the mining being thier fees are 62% for maintenance. minus the trade fees you are looking at a nice loss of 22% haha. If I were you Id look at the finer things you left out in this message like the trade fees and the maintenance fees.

FYI I have been mining there a log time so no use trying to bullshit me. Cex.io/Ghash.io are the biggest scammers in the world of pools.

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Hi cyberpinoy,

Seems like you have an unresolved issue with CEX (based on your aggressive tone). You should take that issue up with them not me.

My figures were already taking into account maintenance, so your comments and 'promise' and 'if I were you' are totally incorrect. In fact based on your comments I re-analysed the numbers to make sure I hadn't made a huge error and the results are slightly different as I came across the odd mistake:-

Trade Profit 0.07668 +20.7% (as before)
Gross Mining Rewards 0.01244808
Maintenance -0.0074975
Net Mining Rewards 0.00495063 +1.34% (down from 1.4%)

[pumawolf]

i only trade there now, i completly ignore the mining, its too dog shit to even care about.  but  i do pay attention to the maintence fee, that greatly effects trading. i rather made wait patient to make a good trade a day, than buy and hold the hashes. its too dangerous ,u just dont know when  the dump is coming. u will make more on that one trade than one day of mining.

[SuniX]

i only trade there now, i completly ignore the mining, its too dog shit to even care about.  but  i do pay attention to the maintence fee, that greatly effects trading. i rather made wait patient to make a good trade a day, than buy and hold the hashes. its too dangerous ,u just dont know when  the dump is coming. u will make more on that one trade than one day of mining.

Agree. In my example the mining reward is a bit of cream on top of the trade outcome.

[Kprawn]

I think the trading is also heavily "Bott'ed" too.

I push a low price, and almost immediately a new bid is entered with only a fraction lower than my entry, so they kinda wall you off.

But it's not unique to CEX, it happens with almost every exchange now. 

[SuniX]

I think the trading is also heavily "Bott'ed" too.

I push a low price, and almost immediately a new bid is entered with only a fraction lower than my entry, so they kinda wall you off.

But it's not unique to CEX, it happens with almost every exchange now. 

Never used bots myself have you? I know you can get 'off the shelf' bots or create your own, wondering if its worth investigating?

[Trade-Winds]

I think the trading is also heavily "Bott'ed" too.

I push a low price, and almost immediately a new bid is entered with only a fraction lower than my entry, so they kinda wall you off.

But it's not unique to CEX, it happens with almost every exchange now.  

Never used bots myself have you? I know you can get 'off the shelf' bots or create your own, wondering if its worth investigating?

Automated trading / bots can be useful for certain trading styles. This website has many pre-made bots or you can customize your own. They have API support for leading exchanges including CEX.IO https://cryptotrader.org/
Are you still trading GHS or was it a one off thing?

[hashie]

Why not look into alternate cloud mining offerings, that are much cheaper GH and maintenance wise?

-Sahra

[SuniX]

Automated trading / bots can be useful for certain trading styles. This website has many pre-made bots or you can customize your own. They have API support for leading exchanges including CEX.IO https://cryptotrader.org/
Are you still trading GHS or was it a one off thing?

Thanks for the link, I had seen it before but never looked in detail, will now though. Yes am still trading not just GHS though, mostly BTC/US, bought some Doge on CEX

Why not look into alternate cloud mining offerings, that are much cheaper GH and maintenance wise?

Not that keen on cloud at the moment, mining returns are just getting smaller and smaller.

[bozo333]

dear OP,

don't fall into the fallacy that because you had a couple profitable trades you now think you have 'figured out' trading and you can do this full time.

even monkeys throwing darts at the wall street journal often beat the so called professionals at picking winning trades. this does not imply in any way you are a monkey, just stating facts.

[SuniX]

dear OP,

don't fall into the fallacy that because you had a couple profitable trades you now think you have 'figured out' trading and you can do this full time.

even monkeys throwing darts at the wall street journal often beat the so called professionals at picking winning trades. this does not imply in any way you are a monkey, just stating facts.

Oh, thanks for your concern, I think.
I haven't said anywhere I am now a full time trader nor do I want to be, just sharing a particular activity relative to trading and cloud mining.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/54432554/Monkeydart.PNG

[Houseman]

Did the Monkey say to buy or sell BTC 

[testerman]

The holder of GHS in CEX is therefore expected to day trade their holding by second guessing market moves, which is unlikely. Anyone professing to have profited from cloud mining on CEX.IO is either a liar, or extremely lucky (mean reversion will soon sort them out) or a CEX.IO shill.

Man, you are just lucky, and if you continue reversion will soon begin.

[SuniX]

The holder of GHS in CEX is therefore expected to day trade their holding by second guessing market moves, which is unlikely. Anyone professing to have profited from cloud mining on CEX.IO is either a liar, or extremely lucky (mean reversion will soon sort them out) or a CEX.IO shill.

Man, you are just lucky, and if you continue reversion will soon begin.

When I trade I have a reason to enter a plan to exit at a certain profit level or at a certain loss level, that should be how everyone does their trading. I do not buy and 'hodl'

[BTCish]

I think you get lucky with those prices, cloud is not profitable.

[SuniX]

I think you get lucky with those prices, cloud is not profitable.

It was a trade with the cloud returns a small bonus, it wasn't an investment in cloud mining. It shows what is possible from trading a product that essentially has an ongoing 'yield' given to you as you hold it, thus you can profit or loss from a trade plus profit or loss from the 'yield' (mining returns).

To get any decent returns from mining you need to be doing it a long time, not 5 days like my trade. Mining now is a tough endeavor for sure.

[pumawolf]

i started out by mining here because i didnt know any better , i do nothing but trades now. its hard to belive theres a way to profit here, its hard to belive because it is hard, u got to follow the market  at least on a hourly basis. its perfect if u have a work at home job  the chances are cex is a part time job at best, unless ur  a whale  , then its good eaten for u.

[BitcoinAddicts]

Hate cex.io. its overpriced for some reason. I prefer hashnest..