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Author Topic: MtGox Collapsing (and taking bitcoin down with them?)  (Read 12608 times)
BTC_Bear
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May 17, 2012, 11:34:37 AM
 #61

Being a firm believer in caveat emptor, I'm not going to claim that fractional reserve banking is an outright fraud. Somewhere in the fine print the banks do state that your money may not be available immediately on request. However, it's not hard to see why people call it that, or why a strict separation was required between interest-bearing time accounts, like CDs, and fee-based demand accounts.
Runs on banks really isn't a problem. Banks can just resume doing what they used to do -- have a clause in the savings agreement that allows them to declare an emergency and defer withdrawals in exchange for paying their customers an increased interest rate. So long as the bank is fundamentally solid and the problem is just liquidity, you can even find other banks who will buy your deposits at the bank suffering from a run. They know they'll get paid the amount, plus more than normal interest, when the bank recovers its liquidity.

The problem is if a bank makes bad investments such as loans that will never be repaid. Insufficient equity is much more devastating than insufficient liquidity.

In the mid 80's, some Libertarians who believed that fractional-reserve banking was a fraud opened an "honest" bank. They stored your money in their vault and had 100% reserves. Of course, they couldn't pay any interest and even had to charge a small storage fee. Not surprisingly, their service wasn't very popular at all. (Though, in fairness, part of this is because the government insures bank deposits. Heck, in today's economic climate, they might actually do some business for people with amounts over the FDIC limit.)


Ironically, the equity in this market IS the liquidity.

Corporations have been enthroned, An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. ~Abe Lincoln 1ApJdWUdSWYw8n8HEATYhHXA9EYoRTy7c4
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May 17, 2012, 12:57:34 PM
 #62

In the mid 80's, some Libertarians who believed that fractional-reserve banking was a fraud opened an "honest" bank. They stored your money in their vault and had 100% reserves. Of course, they couldn't pay any interest and even had to charge a small storage fee. Not surprisingly, their service wasn't very popular at all. (Though, in fairness, part of this is because the government insures bank deposits. Heck, in today's economic climate, they might actually do some business for people with amounts over the FDIC limit.)

Holy crap I want to do this, if only to f*ck with govt regulators. With interest rates at 0% and fee after fee, this seems economically possible now. I would scan each bill that is deposited, and when you withdraw you get back the exact same bill (I am thinking by making your money non-fungible that it would be more legal?) This would also mean no fraud.


Back on topic: I don't understand the hate for MtGox. The most successful bitcoin application yet, and yet it gets dragged through the mud.

good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment
dirtydiego
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May 23, 2012, 08:51:47 AM
 #63

They are still taking forever on their dwolla and wire transfers.... really thinking about another ex-changer now..... any suggestions? thanks!
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May 23, 2012, 08:53:49 AM
 #64


4) I believe Coinabul delays in shipping are related to the fact that they are not getting paid timely by MtGox.


We've solved our banking issues.

Cheers,
-Jon

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Grouver (BtcBalance)
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May 23, 2012, 09:31:22 AM
 #65

Like somebody said on this forum:

"
Bitcoin isn't decentralized.
It's power is in hands of a couple of big parties.

1) Mtgox (handles 80% of all exchange traffic)
2) Deepbit & BTCGUild (handles almost 25 % of all mining)
3) Early Early adopters (50~100 people who own ten thousands of Bitcoins per person)
"

realnowhereman
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May 23, 2012, 10:03:11 AM
 #66

Like somebody said on this forum:

"
Bitcoin isn't decentralized.
It's power is in hands of a couple of big parties.

1) Mtgox (handles 80% of all exchange traffic)
2) Deepbit & BTCGUild (handles almost 25 % of all mining)
3) Early Early adopters (50~100 people who own ten thousands of Bitcoins per person)
"

Power like that doesn't matter.  Provided it has competition or can be replaced.With bitcoin, the power holders can always be replaced.

Let's consider the alternatives; where is the irreplaceable power in the fiat/e-cash world.
  • You can't access your paypal money without paypal (similarly, dwollar, liberty reserve, goldmoney, etc, etc)
  • You can't earn from seigniorage no matter how many printing presses you own (the equivalent of bitcoin mining)
  • You can't stop others from endlessly issuing new money.
  • You can't store your own money electronically.  The banking system is effectively hard-wired in to our modern world.
  • You can't transfer money.  You might think you can; but you can't.  What you can do is beg permission from one of your debtors (the bank) to transfer that debt to another.  If that other is in a different country; or in a country your debtor, the bank, disapproves of, you have no alternative available to you.
  • Try getting on a plane with $100,000 in cash to understand what irreplaceable "power" really is.
  • You can't pay your tax bill in anything other than fiat (this is the one thing that "backs" fiat)

Is bitcoin perfect?  No.  Are there parties with more influence than others?  Yes.  Nobody is in a monopoly position though.  Nobody in the bitcoin community has written themselves into the law to protect their market.

Bitcoin is better than the alternatives; so let's not worry too much about whether Mt.Gox is the biggest exchange or not -- it's like worrying that Coke are the biggest providers of Cola.

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June 02, 2012, 02:42:26 PM
 #67

anybody knows how long a transfer from mt gox to okpay takes? been waiting for a week almost now and no replys from mt gox...
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June 03, 2012, 02:48:07 PM
 #68

If everyone who bitched about the size of Gox used a different exchange, they probably wouldn't be the biggest anymore.
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June 03, 2012, 05:10:18 PM
 #69


Are BTC withdrawals delayed?  If the smartest course of action is to take all your Gox money and run with BTC while you can, because you know you can get your hands on it in the shortest possible time, we could see the price of Bitcoin take an artificially induced climb.


My BTC withdrawals aren't delayed, Mt. Gox says that I need to enter a valid amount even when I am requesting 1/10th of my account balance.

Is there some sort of minimum withdrawal?

Please donate: 1FfJzfpGCXD6saKqmMs8W1qt9wouhA98Mj

http://bitcoinpyramid.com/r/1642

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bagazaga
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June 03, 2012, 05:18:02 PM
 #70

My USD wires are delayed for more than a week.
Vernon715
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June 03, 2012, 05:19:24 PM
 #71

WARNING: Statement of the obvious

Mt.gox has issues.

Please donate: 1FfJzfpGCXD6saKqmMs8W1qt9wouhA98Mj

http://bitcoinpyramid.com/r/1642

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Raoul Duke
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June 03, 2012, 05:20:14 PM
 #72

WARNING: Statement of the obvious

Mt.gox has issues.

No shit, Sherlock!

Vernon715
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June 03, 2012, 05:27:10 PM
 #73

WARNING: Statement of the obvious

Mt.gox has issues.

No shit, Sherlock!

I warned you Grin

But seriously, they should disclose their financials and other relevant information.

Please donate: 1FfJzfpGCXD6saKqmMs8W1qt9wouhA98Mj

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David_Benz
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you got hacked bitch!


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June 03, 2012, 05:46:02 PM
 #74

USE CAMP BX AND STOP USING THE BITCOIN GIANTS.

DO NOT USE GOX
DO NOT USE DEEPBIT.

I am the Bitcoinica Hacker.
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June 03, 2012, 05:51:08 PM
 #75


Are BTC withdrawals delayed?  If the smartest course of action is to take all your Gox money and run with BTC while you can, because you know you can get your hands on it in the shortest possible time, we could see the price of Bitcoin take an artificially induced climb.


My BTC withdrawals aren't delayed, Mt. Gox says that I need to enter a valid amount even when I am requesting 1/10th of my account balance.

Is there some sort of minimum withdrawal?
If you request less than 1 BTC, make sure that there is a 0 before the decimal. MtGox is picky about that.

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June 03, 2012, 05:59:55 PM
 #76

We are working on improving the situation with liquidity, and have currently some issues because of the volume of illegal activity that took place in the past year.

Things are moving forward and I expect to see things back to normal by June.

Maybe it's time to think about selling Mt.Gox to someone, who can cover Mt.Gox's financial holes, while it's worth is above zero.
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June 03, 2012, 06:25:29 PM
 #77

I don't think, that bitcoin will collapse if Mt.Gox collapses. There are other ways/platforms to make trades.
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June 03, 2012, 07:18:11 PM
 #78


Are BTC withdrawals delayed?  If the smartest course of action is to take all your Gox money and run with BTC while you can, because you know you can get your hands on it in the shortest possible time, we could see the price of Bitcoin take an artificially induced climb.


My BTC withdrawals aren't delayed, Mt. Gox says that I need to enter a valid amount even when I am requesting 1/10th of my account balance.

Is there some sort of minimum withdrawal?
If you request less than 1 BTC, make sure that there is a 0 before the decimal. MtGox is picky about that.

bagazaga, you officially earned the title of awesome!! Thanks!!!

Please donate: 1FfJzfpGCXD6saKqmMs8W1qt9wouhA98Mj

http://bitcoinpyramid.com/r/1642

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June 03, 2012, 09:28:29 PM
 #79

Heh, thanks.

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June 05, 2012, 03:07:53 AM
 #80

Has anyone hacked Mtgox?? My account got cleaned out Shocked

How do I go about getting help with this.I emailed them just now.So,I'm waiting for a response,but maybe you guys know a faster way to results.

This sucks   Cry

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Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be
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