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miztaziggy
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October 01, 2014, 09:41:56 AM
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Basically I am wanting to know if there's an equivalent of Bitpay, but in reverse?

I think Bitpay is the problem and why the price of BTC is dropping. People have more outlets for their stored / stashed Bitcoins, so they use them to buy goods / services. Bitpay just sells them on the market driving the price down. The lower the price, the more people will panic and try to get rid of their BTC. It's a vicious circle.

I personally would use a service that was in reverse. I want to set up a small business, but I don't want to get a business bank account and get myself set up with Visa / Mastercard etc.

I need a payment processor that will accept Visa / Mastercard and then I receive payment in BTC. I can then either hold or sell them for cash as I please.
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October 01, 2014, 10:13:34 AM
 #2

BitPay has taken the easy part...receiving a currency that does not have chargebacks and paying out in a currency that allows chargebacks.


Doing the opposite exposes the provider to chargebacks.

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Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
miztaziggy
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October 01, 2014, 11:11:08 AM
 #3

Well, yes true, but surely the registration process for the company wanting to be paid in BTC would take sufficient information to allow for some sort of security.

Eg I set up a small company and start receiving say £200 a week, paid out to me in BTC. Someone issues a chargeback for £100 on their credit card. If successful then this is taken from any future payments made to me. It would be likely that any company setting up this sort of service would limit the payments to say £100 to avoid too much risk.
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October 01, 2014, 11:57:21 AM
 #4

I don't understand. Why blame bitpay for the decline in price. Bitcoin is meant for spending and whatever they earn they have every right to sell it to cover operating cost.

We should encourage spending using bitcoin and that way helps towards mass adoption. Anything that i miss out???


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October 01, 2014, 12:11:16 PM
 #5

I don't understand. Why blame bitpay for the decline in price. Bitcoin is meant for spending and whatever they earn they have every right to sell it to cover operating cost.

We should encourage spending using bitcoin and that way helps towards mass adoption. Anything that i miss out???


This.

If you've bought your Bitcoins as an "investment" you've come to the wrong place.

miztaziggy
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October 01, 2014, 01:02:41 PM
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I don't understand. Why blame bitpay for the decline in price. Bitcoin is meant for spending and whatever they earn they have every right to sell it to cover operating cost.

We should encourage spending using bitcoin and that way helps towards mass adoption. Anything that i miss out???



I am not blaming bitpay.

Something lots of Bitcoin fan boys on here don't understand is that Bitcoin is too complicated and will never get mass adoption as it stands right now.

Why would anyone ever buy Bitcoin just to spend on say a new Dell PC when they can just pay with their credit card or debit card with no fees?

At the moment, buying anything with Bitcoin only works if you pre-own the Bitcoin maybe from mining or buying while they were very cheap, otherwise the exchange fees, or really poor exchange rate from Bitpay just make the cost prohibitive.

Don't believe me? Look at the facts:

Say I wanted a GPU from Scan:
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/8gb-xfx-radeon-r9-295-x2-core-edition-5000mhz-gddr5-gpu-947mhz-boost-1018mhz-5632-streams-dvi-mdp

It would cost me £665.15 in cash or on my credit or debit card.

Alternatively, I could buy Bitcoin on LBC.

At checkout and at current rates it says:
Quote
Total to pay 2.8350 BTC / £665.15

To buy 2.8350 BTC from LBC will cost (right now) £252.38 per BTC = £715.49

FACT: That's £50 or 7.5% more by buying bitcoin to make a purchase.
Who in their right mind would do that?
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October 01, 2014, 01:20:56 PM
 #7

From a recent purchase I made with bitcoins:

Order summary

   Apple iPhone 6 4.7-inch Dis...    $819.00    2,139.61 mBTC
   Estimated Tax    $0.00    mBTC
   Subtotal    $819.00    2,139.61 mBTC
   Discount 33%    -$270.27    -706.07 mBTC
   Fee 1%    $8.19    21.39 mBTC
   Final price    $556.92    1,454.93 mBTC

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Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
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October 01, 2014, 01:24:46 PM
 #8

Going back and forth between Bitcoin and fiat is the reason that currently the exchanges are the biggest money makers of all of the Bitcoin businesses.

The potential is when we no longer need exchanges.

http://www.bitpools.com
Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
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October 01, 2014, 01:42:18 PM
 #9

Basically I am wanting to know if there's an equivalent of Bitpay, but in reverse?

I think Bitpay is the problem and why the price of BTC is dropping. People have more outlets for their stored / stashed Bitcoins, so they use them to buy goods / services. Bitpay just sells them on the market driving the price down. The lower the price, the more people will panic and try to get rid of their BTC. It's a vicious circle.

I personally would use a service that was in reverse. I want to set up a small business, but I don't want to get a business bank account and get myself set up with Visa / Mastercard etc.

I need a payment processor that will accept Visa / Mastercard and then I receive payment in BTC. I can then either hold or sell them for cash as I please.


I DON'T think that:Bitpay is the problem and why the price of BTC is dropping.
i think the biggest reason of the dropping price  is the bitcoin leveraged transactions in China.

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blumangroup
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October 02, 2014, 04:01:51 PM
 #10

There is circle but this is not designed to be used for businesses as you descried. The reason few/no company will ever pay you in bitcoin for your credit card sales is because it is possible for your customer to file a chargeback claim against you several months after a sale goes through but would have no way to collect the bitcoin from you.

The only way that a company could get around this is if they were to require you to have a letter of credit for the amount of CC sales per 6 month period, however this would likely be very expensive.

There is also little reason why a company would want to pay CC fees and receive bitcoin in return. The reason a company would want to accept bitcoin in the first place is because it would save them the cost of accepting a credit card

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miztaziggy
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October 03, 2014, 10:12:50 AM
 #11



There is also little reason why a company would want to pay CC fees and receive bitcoin in return. The reason a company would want to accept bitcoin in the first place is because it would save them the cost of accepting a credit card

Except that no one (by no one, I mean 99.5% of the world's population) even knows how to buy or use Bitcoin.

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October 04, 2014, 05:19:05 AM
 #12



There is also little reason why a company would want to pay CC fees and receive bitcoin in return. The reason a company would want to accept bitcoin in the first place is because it would save them the cost of accepting a credit card

Except that no one (by no one, I mean 99.5% of the world's population) even knows how to buy or use Bitcoin.
The reason a company would want to receive a bitcoin payment instead of a credit card payment is because of the lower cost. If you are using a credit card company to receive the payment then you already lose this cost advantage.

If you accept bitcoin and offer a discount for using it then people who want to take advantage of the discount will learn

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October 04, 2014, 08:02:10 AM
 #13

The companies are backing out simply because of the price inconsistencies... They want to accept something that can be exchanged without any big price fluctuations. But with bitcoin,you don't know what to expect...

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October 04, 2014, 08:23:34 AM
 #14

Try out circle.com.

A new company which allow end user to buy bitcoin using credit card.
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October 04, 2014, 09:07:35 AM
 #15

Basically I am wanting to know if there's an equivalent of Bitpay, but in reverse?

I think Bitpay is the problem and why the price of BTC is dropping. People have more outlets for their stored / stashed Bitcoins, so they use them to buy goods / services. Bitpay just sells them on the market driving the price down. The lower the price, the more people will panic and try to get rid of their BTC. It's a vicious circle.

I personally would use a service that was in reverse. I want to set up a small business, but I don't want to get a business bank account and get myself set up with Visa / Mastercard etc.

I need a payment processor that will accept Visa / Mastercard and then I receive payment in BTC. I can then either hold or sell them for cash as I please.

bitpay do this.
many people need to get it out o their heads that places like bitpay are only throwing coins at public exchanges. people need to get it out of their heads that miners throw all of thir coins at exchanges.

the simple fact is that if you approached bitpay/miners and said
"hey, i can give you a regular £200 a week fiat supply, give me some of your bitcoins" they will say yes.
th only think with bitpay and ghash, is thieir bitcoin supply is so high, that £200 wont cut it. they normally sell larger amounts privately to whales, not small shrimp. cex/bitpay do more private trades than anyone realises

but the point is you can find MANY small/medium businesses that will set up private swaps for such small amounts as £200

Well, yes true, but surely the registration process for the company wanting to be paid in BTC would take sufficient information to allow for some sort of security.

Eg I set up a small company and start receiving say £200 a week, paid out to me in BTC. Someone issues a chargeback for £100 on their credit card. If successful then this is taken from any future payments made to me. It would be likely that any company setting up this sort of service would limit the payments to say £100 to avoid too much risk.

chargebacks are for the credit card gang. bitpay, miners etc, and traders on localbitcoins/OTC do wire transfers (ach, etc) thus no chargebacks. id advise never open a business that deals in credit cards or paypal.

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October 04, 2014, 09:15:18 AM
 #16

I don't understand. Why blame bitpay for the decline in price. Bitcoin is meant for spending and whatever they earn they have every right to sell it to cover operating cost.

We should encourage spending using bitcoin and that way helps towards mass adoption. Anything that i miss out???


You're right.

The Bitcoin price is actually very mainly dictated by whales on the marketplace and backstreet deals.
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October 04, 2014, 09:16:18 AM
 #17

Or how about a service that let's a customer pay with a debit card instead of a credit card and then sends payment in the form of BTC to the merchant?  Isn't it a lot harder to do a chargeback on a debit card?

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October 04, 2014, 09:47:58 AM
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I do not think that it is possible at this BTC stage  Grin
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October 04, 2014, 03:02:10 PM
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Impossible at the moment. The bitcoin price is too volatile at the moment and most of the mechants accepting bitcoin payment will convert the bitcoin payment to fiat right away to keep the fiat profit.

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October 05, 2014, 03:02:15 AM
 #20

Or how about a service that let's a customer pay with a debit card instead of a credit card and then sends payment in the form of BTC to the merchant?  Isn't it a lot harder to do a chargeback on a debit card?
No. The ability to do a chargeback is essentially the same with a debit card as it is with a credit card. The costs with debit cards are higher as well so you would be taking on the same risks but would encounter higher costs.
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