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Author Topic: Micro transactions - confirmations?  (Read 1946 times)
ezreal
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October 08, 2014, 07:34:42 PM
 #21

Usually not. Most transactions rely on other transactions that are allready confirmed, sometimes however it happens that TX A is not yet confirmed (e.g. because no fees) and TX B that spends the outputs from TX A pays a fee. In that case it makes sense for a miner to confirm A because only then B can be confirmed. Usually they would confirm both in the same block, to benefit from the fees of TX B.

But has this way of "considering the total tx fee of a series of transactions" been implemented by the miners yet?
I have heard of this for a very long time, but I couldn't find if it is still a proposal or if it is already working.

Not sure how the miners handle this internally, but usually when people spend unconfirmed change and pay a regular or normal fee both TX get confirmed within the next or very few blocks.

is that even worth it?
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October 08, 2014, 07:41:27 PM
 #22

-snip-

is that even worth it?

For the miners? Sure, its not like we are anywhere close to the 1 MB blocksize limit, so there is enough room. Any TX that pays and gets confirmed is money in the wallet. There is no downside or at least I am not aware of one currently.
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October 09, 2014, 02:00:56 AM
 #23

Not sure how the miners handle this internally, but usually when people spend unconfirmed change and pay a regular or normal fee both TX get confirmed within the next or very few blocks.

Thanks for your info.


-snip-

is that even worth it?

For the miners? Sure, its not like we are anywhere close to the 1 MB blocksize limit, so there is enough room. Any TX that pays and gets confirmed is money in the wallet. There is no downside or at least I am not aware of one currently.

It is good for the general bitcoin users as well.

Say if someone send you 0.05 btc but for some reason didn't attach a 0.0001 fee, you may need to wait for a few days without luck, contact the sender, explain the problem, persuade and teach him to create a double-spend transaction with fee.
Or you could simply send that unconfirmed 0.05 btc to yourself with a 0.0001 fee to solve all the problem all by yourself.



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October 14, 2014, 12:36:57 PM
 #24

A follow up question, based on the first question.

Say, I own a faucet, and every Sunday, I want to make micro payments to say 3000 users. What would the best method be, to pay these users, and to have the least amount of transactions/miner fees?

I see many faucets, with a withdraw limit of 5000+ Satoshi and I can just imagine, that the transaction fees, would nulify the gain or reduce the profits, if it was done individually.

Do I pay less, if it's batched together, and what technology or wallet, would make the payment the cheapest for massive micro transactions? ^Grin^ 

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October 14, 2014, 01:54:30 PM
 #25

Micro transactions do confirm even without a fee, but usually within a couple of days or even weeks (and sometimes they don't). Miners usually don't 'prioritize' transactions that doesn't include a tx fee. You have to wait until that transaction confirms, or it may not confirm at all.

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October 14, 2014, 08:50:43 PM
 #26


...... create a double-spend transaction with fee............Or you could simply send that unconfirmed 0.05 btc to yourself with a 0.0001 fee to solve all the problem all by yourself.

teach me how to do these 2 please or give a link Smiley

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October 14, 2014, 08:53:38 PM
 #27

A follow up question, based on the first question.

Say, I own a faucet, and every Sunday, I want to make micro payments to say 3000 users. What would the best method be, to pay these users, and to have the least amount of transactions/miner fees?

I see many faucets, with a withdraw limit of 5000+ Satoshi and I can just imagine, that the transaction fees, would nulify the gain or reduce the profits, if it was done individually.

Do I pay less, if it's batched together, and what technology or wallet, would make the payment the cheapest for massive micro transactions? ^Grin^ 

faucets use https://www.microwallet.org/ they can send even 1 satoshi and it is offchain transaction check the API page for more info

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October 15, 2014, 01:39:48 PM
 #28

A follow up question, based on the first question.

Say, I own a faucet, and every Sunday, I want to make micro payments to say 3000 users. What would the best method be, to pay these users, and to have the least amount of transactions/miner fees?

I see many faucets, with a withdraw limit of 5000+ Satoshi and I can just imagine, that the transaction fees, would nulify the gain or reduce the profits, if it was done individually.

Do I pay less, if it's batched together, and what technology or wallet, would make the payment the cheapest for massive micro transactions? ^Grin^ 

faucets use https://www.microwallet.org/ they can send even 1 satoshi and it is offchain transaction check the API page for more info
That process involve trusting a third party with your BTC. If they decide to run away, you may lose all your BTC. You could make a withdrawal limit of 5500 satoshi for example and send the payments every week by batches. The transaction fees can be reduced.

Simon8x
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October 17, 2014, 03:40:44 PM
 #29

A follow up question, based on the first question.

Say, I own a faucet, and every Sunday, I want to make micro payments to say 3000 users. What would the best method be, to pay these users, and to have the least amount of transactions/miner fees?

I see many faucets, with a withdraw limit of 5000+ Satoshi and I can just imagine, that the transaction fees, would nulify the gain or reduce the profits, if it was done individually.

Do I pay less, if it's batched together, and what technology or wallet, would make the payment the cheapest for massive micro transactions? ^Grin^ 

faucets use https://www.microwallet.org/ they can send even 1 satoshi and it is offchain transaction check the API page for more info
That process involve trusting a third party with your BTC. If they decide to run away, you may lose all your BTC. You could make a withdrawal limit of 5500 satoshi for example and send the payments every week by batches. The transaction fees can be reduced.

If you don't want to trust a third party and use offchain transaction, the best option is to group the payments together and make a few huge transactions like what moonbit does https://blockchain.info/address/12Zdr4CqdaLCngZJgLWVLYbuWNc2NNKKk5?filter=1

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