Bitcoin needs to change to avoid the inevitable environmentalist backlash

[monsterer]

Bitcoin mining uses an insane amount of electricity. If bitcoin gains mass adoption, it will swiftly be followed by a fully justified environmentalist backlash as the facts regarding the vast electricity use in bitcoin mining operations become fully disseminated.

When one mining farm alone consumes $70,000 USD / month (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/08/12/chinese_bitcoin_farms_from_scifi_to_scuzzy/) in electricity alone, it has got be time to ask why bitcoin is still using the costly proof of work algorithm (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_work), which is the primary reason for the vast costs involved.

If bitcoin is to be a true replacement for visa or paypal, it must be an environmentally sound choice.

Cheers, Paul.

[1714863438]

1714863438

[Stifler]

Could the algorhtym be changed? How much do the others cost in comparison? Maybe mining farms should look at using some solar energy as well to offset their costs.

[cbeast]

Fiat uses millions of times more energy than Bitcoin. Bitcoin will save the babies, puppies and rainbows.

[Unbelive]

Fiat uses millions of times more energy than Bitcoin. Bitcoin will save the babies, puppies and rainbows.

And bring back unicorns.

[inBitweTrust]

This has recently been discussed to death in this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=770591.0

There are many solutions to this. https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/06/19/mining/  Some involve doing nothing as market forces and economics will force decentralized miners to be used for heating.

Economics are already pushing miners to go green to compete with sunk electrical costs  -

http://thecoinfront.com/new-decentralized-mining-pool-runs-on-100-clean-renewable-energy/

In the future it is likely that all electrical costs will be used create the product of heat with PoW as a nice consequence that helps subsidize the energy bill or ASIC appliance.

What this means is the PoW could go from being much more environmentally friendly than fiat to much greener.

[monsterer]

Fiat uses millions of times more energy than Bitcoin. Bitcoin will save the babies, puppies and rainbows.

Evidence?

Just to continue the discussion, assuming you are correct for a second this figure isn't per person using the currency is it?

World population: 7 billion (ref http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/). Lets assume that half of them use fiat currency, so 3.5 billion
Estimated bitcoin population: 500k (ref http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/197tqx/estimating_the_amount_of_bitcoin_users/)

Ratio: 7000 fiat users to each bitcoin user. So current bitcoin electricity consumption has to be 7000 times less than current fiat electricity consumption in order to be on par.

So, at a million times less energy consumption bitcoin would indeed consume less. So lets see this evidence?

Cheers, Paul.

[cbeast]

This has recently been discussed to death in this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=770591.0

There are many solutions to this. https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/06/19/mining/  Some involve doing nothing as market forces and economics will force decentralized miners to be used for heating.

Economics are already pushing miners to go green to compete with sunk electrical costs  -

http://thecoinfront.com/new-decentralized-mining-pool-runs-on-100-clean-renewable-energy/

In the future it is likely that all electrical costs will be used create the product of heat with PoW as a nice consequence that helps subsidize the energy bill or ASIC appliance.

What he said.

[cbeast]

Fiat uses millions of times more energy than Bitcoin. Bitcoin will save the babies, puppies and rainbows.

Evidence?

Just to continue the discussion, assuming you are correct for a second this figure isn't per person using the currency is it?

World population: 7 billion (ref http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/). Lets assume that half of them use fiat currency, so 3.5 billion
Estimated bitcoin population: 500k (ref http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/197tqx/estimating_the_amount_of_bitcoin_users/)

Ratio: 7000 fiat users to each bitcoin user. So current bitcoin electricity consumption has to be 7000 times less than current fiat electricity consumption in order to be on par.

So, at a million times less energy consumption bitcoin would indeed consume less. So lets see this evidence?

Cheers, Paul.

Welcome to my ignore list. You spent way too much energy on that troll. Someone should alert the EPA.

[monsterer]

In the future it is likely that all electrical costs will be used create the product of heat with PoW as a nice consequence that helps subsidize the energy bill or ASIC appliance.

But why fudge around the problem? Converting heat into power efficiently is one of science's great unsolved problems.

[inBitweTrust]

But why fudge around the problem? Converting heat into power efficiently is one of science's great unsolved problems.

Read the links that I provided you. This has been discussed to death.

In short, ASIC's are 99.9% efficient at converting electricity to heat. Additionally, ASICs are very inexpensive to make if the initial investment, tape out , and testing costs are amortized over mass produced  consumer products instead of a few thousand miners.

If the economics don't continue to evolve in this direction to being greener we can change a few lines of code.

[Elwar]

When Bitcoin becomes mainstream, the environmentalists will need to worry more about finding their next meal than how Bitcoin is for the environment.

Considering they will be the last few that still believe in fiat as they tend to believe whatever their centralized controllers want them to believe.

[monsterer]

Welcome to my ignore list. You spent way too much energy on that troll. Someone should alert the EPA.

I didn't realise it was possible to troll your own post.

[inBitweTrust]

I didn't realise it was possible to troll your own post.

You have to understand we have had a recent wave of FUD which has been motivated recently by new investors trying to subtly promote their alt they invested in.

Many of us are tired of the Spam and Fud hurting everyone in the community.

If you are sincere than read those links and discuss very specific objections that haven't been answered before.

[monsterer]

In short, ASIC's are 99.9% efficient at converting electricity to heat.

Heat is the least useful form of energy, though. The best solution is to produce less by consuming less electricity in the first place.

[Elwar]

[inBitweTrust]

In short, ASIC's are 99.9% efficient at converting electricity to heat.

Heat is the least useful form of energy, though. The best solution is to produce less by consuming less electricity in the first place.

Huh? Are you insinuating humans don't need to heat things and many of those things aren't heated with electricity?

[monsterer]

You have to understand we have had a recent wave of FUD which has been motivated recently by new investors trying to subtly promote their alt they invested in.

Many of us are tired of the Spam and Fud hurting everyone in the community.

Well, I am a bitcoin holder with two bitcoin related sites so I have nothing to gain and everything to lose by pushing the price of BTC down. On the contrary, I want to see bitcoin succeed which I why I believe the current algorithm needs to change.

[Elwar]

I why I believe the current algorithm needs to change.

Good luck with your alt.

[inBitweTrust]

Well, I am a bitcoin holder with two bitcoin related sites so I have nothing to gain and everything to lose by pushing the price of BTC down. On the contrary, I want to see bitcoin succeed which I why I believe the current algorithm needs to change.

Ok, since you are sincere in wanting bitcoin to be better than read those links and come up with specific objections to help the community and yourself.

I'm sure your want to weigh all possible solutions to find the best and most realistic solution and not merely promote PoS and DPoS FUD, right?

[monsterer]

Huh? Are you insinuating humans don't need to heat things and many of those things aren't heated with electricity?

Purely from the 2nd law of thermodynamics.