[ANN] MT.GOX - SEPA Withdrawals Are Back Again!

[miernik]

2% fee with a minimum of 1%

And what is "2% fee with a minimum of 1%" BTW? That also doesn't make sense! 2% is of course larger then 1%, so I have no idea what did you mean here? Is that a disguised 3%?

And BTW, your polish bank (Bank Zachodni WBK), charges only these 5 PLN for SEPA. All the %'s is only your (and/or the people's who you give the transfers to submit them to Bank Zachodni WBK maybe) profit.

And BTW: will you waive the withdrawal fee if the customer has an account also at the same bank as you?
http://www.bzwbk.pl/
Anyone with a passport and perhaps a second ID, can go to any branch in Poland and open one.

And they sell prepaid VISA cards with no ID asked, which have an account number (inside BZWBK) to fund them.
I can send you such card (in EUR) for 3 BTC (there is a bit of profit in that, but not much taking into account my time and risk if the card is lost in post) shipped worldwide if you want.
Withdrawing from an MtGox account to such card's number should be free of charge (at least it is from Intersango who have an account at the same polish bank).

[1714057985]

1714057985

[1714057985]

1714057985

[defxor]

I can find a lot of interesting information about SEPA if I search, and if I follow links posted here.

Yet, my bank tells me that while they mostly support SEPA they take it upon themselves to block transfers to certain SEPA countries (my bank specifically does not allow transfers to Romania, Bulgaria and Lichtenstein). I've sent a question to the ECB asking if that's allowed but I don't expect a respons for another few weeks at least.

While researching this I found a list, somewhere, with the names of banks and whether they were participating in some or all of three different aspects of SEPA. In my country, only the two very largest banks seemed to participate in all three, my bank was only listed under one of the headings (credit transfer).

http://epc.cbnet.info/content/adherence_database

Thus I'm not at all sure all the info linked to can be said to always apply.

[davout]

Yet, my bank tells me that while they mostly support SEPA they take it upon themselves to block transfers to certain SEPA countries (my bank specifically does not allow transfers to Romania, Bulgaria and Lichtenstein). I've sent a question to the ECB asking if that's allowed but I don't expect a respons for another few weeks at least.

They are definitely not allowed to do that.

[davout]

1. 1 to 5 Business Day. Yes we all agree on this point that SEPA transfer as to be done in 1 business day or 24h. However, experience taught us that it can take, depending of the bank and circumstances (Public Holidays and so on) up to 5 business day. Also if the an Intermediary bank is involved in the process, and this happen fairly often, this will take at least 3 days : 24h for our Bank, 24h for the Intermediary Bank and the day after that for your Bank.

How could you come up with such bullshit? This doesn't even make any sense! The term "next business day" already accounts for public holidays, so you can't explain a "5 business day" delay with holidays in between, this is absurd. Transfers submitted to the bank on Friday before the cut-off hour (23:30 in BZWBK), appear in the receiving bank on Monday afternoon, period!

[...]

I get SMS exactly at the moment I receive a SEPA transfer, you are welcome to test from obscure banks by sending me a 0.01 EUR SEPA noting the day and time it was submitted to the bank, and I'll tell you exactly when it was credited to my account. I've done many of such tests, and read SEPA STEP2 documentation at https://www.ebaclearing.eu/ so I know very well what I am talking about.

Great info !

[Mt.Gox Support]

Believe what you want to believe... Still with experience we seems transfer taking more than one day, so in order to be in the safe side, and while we totally agree with you guys on the fact that it should normally take no more than 24h, we prefer to announce a 1 to 5 business day on SEPA, because, once again, we seens some taking more than 24h. Hope I am clear on this one.

Now this said, we made succeed to cut a better deal with our bank and also this will make it easier for everybody, the new fees implied are now : 1% fee with minimum of 5.5 PLN.

Thanks

[2weiX]

Believe what you want to believe... Still with experience we seems transfer taking more than one day, so in order to be in the safe side, and while we totally agree with you guys on the fact that it should normally take no more than 24h, we prefer to announce a 1 to 5 business day on SEPA, because, once again, we seens some taking more than 24h. Hope I am clear on this one.

Now this said, we made succeed to cut a better deal with our bank and also this will make it easier for everybody, the new fees implied are now : 1% + 5.5PLN.

Thanks

withdraw wizard still shows 2%, tho.

[kloinko1n]

...the new fees implied are now : 1% + 5.5PLN.

Come on guys. Keep on nagging, I'm sure they can go still a bit lower 

[miernik]

Come on guys. Keep on nagging, I'm sure they can go still a bit lower  

Come on, let the poor chap typing in the transfers in Poland keep the 1% and 0.50 PLN (The 5 PLN is charged for SEPA by Bank Zachodni WBK for all accounts). Would you like to sit there whole day and type in transfers for free? LOL
He has to eat also, you know what would happen if he'd starve? Would you like him to develop malnutrition? Don't be so cruel, give him the cash. He already lost half of his income, because you didn't like to pay 2%, and now he has to type in at least a 1000 EUR of SEPA per day just to eat. And where is the money for a house, phones, parties, trips to Bitcoin conference, cars, planes, presents for girls, come on...

[paraipan]

Come on guys. Keep on nagging, I'm sure they can go still a bit lower  

Come on, let the poor chap typing in the transfers in Poland keep the 1% and 0.50 PLN (The 5 PLN is charged for SEPA by Bank Zachodni WBK for all accounts). Would you like to sit there whole day and type in transfers for free? LOL
He has to eat also, you know what would happen if he'd starve? Would you like him to develop malnutrition? Don't be so cruel, give him the cash. He already lost half of his income, because you didn't like to pay 2%, and now he has to type in at least a 1000 EUR of SEPA per day just to eat. And where is the money for a house, phones, parties, trips to Bitcoin conference, cars, planes, presents for girls, come on...

yeah, i would gladly pay 10 or 15 PLN for every SEPA transfer i make before being taxed a percentage, what difference does it make to type 1 or 5 zeroes ? I would love to use mtgox services but this is unacceptable, at last we still have exchangers out there that think for their customers interest.

[kloinko1n]

Come on guys. Keep on nagging, I'm sure they can go still a bit lower  

Come on, let the poor chap typing in the transfers in Poland keep the 1% and 0.50 PLN (The 5 PLN is charged for SEPA by Bank Zachodni WBK for all accounts). Would you like to sit there whole day and type in transfers for free? LOL
He has to eat also, you know what would happen if he'd starve? Would you like him to develop malnutrition? Don't be so cruel, give him the cash. He already lost half of his income, because you didn't like to pay 2%, and now he has to type in at least a 1000 EUR of SEPA per day just to eat. And where is the money for a house, phones, parties, trips to Bitcoin conference, cars, planes, presents for girls, come on...

And how about my own 'malnutrition'?
MtGox has cost me about USD 300 (or was it 400?) because they allowed themselves to get 'hacked'.
After a short "we will investigate it", I never heard back about it.
I have my serious doubts about them, and am still very weary to use *any* exchange any more.
Thanks a lot.

[Mt.Gox Support]

Believe what you want to believe... Still with experience we seems transfer taking more than one day, so in order to be in the safe side, and while we totally agree with you guys on the fact that it should normally take no more than 24h, we prefer to announce a 1 to 5 business day on SEPA, because, once again, we seens some taking more than 24h. Hope I am clear on this one.

Now this said, we made succeed to cut a better deal with our bank and also this will make it easier for everybody, the new fees implied are now : 1% + 5.5PLN.

Thanks

withdraw wizard still shows 2%, tho.

Sorry for that, we forget to modify one of the default text. This has now been fixed, and thank you for letting us now.

[defxor]

FYI, I've now received a response from the ECB to questions I raised about my bank and its policy of not allowing SEPA transfers to all participating countries.

The provision of SEPA payments is not mandatory for banks at the moment. The recently adopted Regulation 260/2012 establishing technical and business requirements for credit transfers and direct debits in euro will, however, make pan-European payments in euro mandatory from 1 February 2012 for banks and other payment service providers in euro area Member States, and from 31 October 2016 for non-euro area Member States.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2012:094:0022:0037:EN:PDF
 
Best regards,
 
EUROPEAN CENTRAL BANK
Directorate Communications
Press and Information Division

What I think it says is that my bank has a lot of leeway since my country, while being an EU member, hasn't adopted the euro as national currency. Posting this here since it might offer some more information as to why MtGox, like myself, has seen SEPA transfers taking longer than next business day.

[Mt.Gox_Natalie]

FYI, I've now received a response from the ECB to questions I raised about my bank and its policy of not allowing SEPA transfers to all participating countries.

The provision of SEPA payments is not mandatory for banks at the moment. The recently adopted Regulation 260/2012 establishing technical and business requirements for credit transfers and direct debits in euro will, however, make pan-European payments in euro mandatory from 1 February 2012 for banks and other payment service providers in euro area Member States, and from 31 October 2016 for non-euro area Member States.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2012:094:0022:0037:EN:PDF
 
Best regards,
 
EUROPEAN CENTRAL BANK
Directorate Communications
Press and Information Division

What I think it says is that my bank has a lot of leeway since my country, while being an EU member, hasn't adopted the euro as national currency. Posting this here since it might offer some more information as to why MtGox, like myself, has seen SEPA transfers taking longer than next business day.

Thank you for your understanding of our situation.  Our colleague in Poland has informed us that pending SEPA withdrawals up to last week have already been processed on Monday.

[2weiX]

works a advertised.
took 2 business day (with a holiday in between).

[defxor]

What I think it says is that my bank has a lot of leeway since my country, while being an EU member, hasn't adopted the euro as national currency. Posting this here since it might offer some more information as to why MtGox, like myself, has seen SEPA transfers taking longer than next business day.

... and now finally my bank has gotten back to me after performing an in-depth investigation of the regulatory framework:

1) They still claim (and I believe them) that they're allowed to pick and choose which SEPA countries to allow transfers to. They are required to accept transfers from all, though.

2) Since 1st of January all SEPA transfers must indeed be completed end of next business day. They will change their terms of services after having had this pointed out to them. (Thanks to everyone in this thread).

[2weiX]

MtGox's Polish bank only processes SEPA withdrawals twice a week.
That's something I got from mtgox support and was never included anywhere else.

So if you decide to withdraw on Tuesday and the bank only processes on Mon and Fri, you'll get your money sometime middle od next week...

My last withdrawals:

5/20 received 5/28 received on the 6th business day after withdrawal
5/23 "confirmed"
5/23 "confirmed"
5/26 "confirmed"

So plusminus a little, it still works as advertised, but I would imagine there's still room for improvement.

Maybe they're strapped for Euros, I dunno.

[miernik]

MtGox's Polish bank only processes SEPA withdrawals twice a week.

If its Bank Zachodni WBK (and I strongly think it is, because that's where they have PLN), then its bullshit: Bank Zachodni WBK processes SEPA every working day at 23:30 polish time, and they appear at the other bank next working day around noon. I know, I have myself an account there since 12 years.

[bitdragon]

I'm very cautious about using MTGOX withdrawals after the agony of last year.
6th day is an improvement but still way too long. Going through a chap in Germany, I get it next day pronto with no fees other than the ECB exchange rate. If payment is initiated in the evening, it adds one more day.

MtGox's Polish bank only processes SEPA withdrawals twice a week.

If its Bank Zachodni WBK (and I strongly think it is, because that's where they have PLN), then its bullshit: Bank Zachodni WBK processes SEPA every working day at 23:30 polish time, and they appear at the other bank next working day around noon. I know, I have myself an account there since 12 years.

Are you looking for some MTGOX codes by any chance in exchange for a SEPA payment ?
I will split it in half with a MTGOX withdrawal and see which one comes first

[miernik]

Are you looking for some MTGOX codes by any chance in exchange for a SEPA payment ?
I will split it in half with a MTGOX withdrawal and see which one comes first

I don't trade at MtGox at all, although I have their Yubikey, I somehow don't trust their support if something happens (they're slow), so there are plenty of other exchanges with far better support: http://www.intersango.com/ http://www.bitstamp.net/ http://www.bitcoin-24.com/   - all these have SEPA, so there is no reason for me to touch MtGox, and increase their almost-monopoly (on volume) with my volume.

I buy coins at Intersango, and so far there is no EUR Bitinstant or something to deposit MTGOX EUR codes in Intersango. Maybe I can take some MTGOX USD code to deposit via Bitinstant to Bitstamp.net but just a little to test.

If you want to do a test today, I could just buy 1 coin from you via #bitcoin-otc IRC channel, and send you a SEPA from Bank Zachodni WBK this evening just so you see in your bank when it arrives and tell the group (start check your account tomorrow 12:00 - 14:00). You are sure there is no holiday tomorrow in your country (if there is then the test doesn't make sense)?

[bitdragon]

we can do a SEPA for 1 coin?
great. I am in SepaSwitzerland with a beautiful Euro Account.

No holiday tomorrow and I get an email when funds are deposited.

I have never used bitcoin-OTC yet so this could be a try, or I have a bitmarket.eu account with an open order to sell.
You could just buy 1 and send me 3.9 Euros ?

I did not know about bitcoin-24.com; do you know who is behind them?
and bitstamp is in beautiful Slovenia