Bitcoin Forum
December 12, 2017, 05:22:56 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Poll
Question: Would you be interested in a Bitcoin Credit Union?
Yes - 21 (63.6%)
No - 11 (33.3%)
Other (post below) - 1 (3%)
Total Voters: 33

Pages: « 1 2 [3]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Would you be interested in a Bitcoin Credit Union?  (Read 3120 times)
Elwar
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2310


www.bitpools.com


View Profile WWW
October 10, 2014, 02:02:09 PM
 #41

If you never intend to touch fiat at all you don't need to apply to be a credit union. Credit unions don't deal with commodities. You can just set that up as a club or non profit for tax purposes. Maybe apply for a 501c. Are you planning on being for profit or nonprofit?

The credit union is necessary to get a routing number to be used for direct deposit.

http://www.bitpools.com
Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
1513056176
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513056176

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513056176
Reply with quote  #2

1513056176
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1513056176
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513056176

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513056176
Reply with quote  #2

1513056176
Report to moderator
QuestionAuthority
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1722


You lead and I'll watch you walk away.


View Profile
October 10, 2014, 02:18:21 PM
 #42

If you never intend to touch fiat at all you don't need to apply to be a credit union. Credit unions don't deal with commodities. You can just set that up as a club or non profit for tax purposes. Maybe apply for a 501c. Are you planning on being for profit or nonprofit?

The credit union is necessary to get a routing number to be used for direct deposit.

So you are planning on accepting deposits in fiat? I guess I got confused by franky1s post. A bank or credit unions routing number or numbers are used to identify a financial institution usually for the ACH and wire transfer system. The hurdles you will jump through to be a bank will require lots of employees and attorneys. If you are crossing state lines you will need to comply with interstate banking and branching laws which will add more employees. If you're going to deal with international customers too you may need to hire everyone on this forum to help. That's the reason these startups go out and secure big money investors first.

Seriously, I'm not sure you could ever accomplish that without being more expensive than Circle or Coinbase.

Elwar
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2310


www.bitpools.com


View Profile WWW
October 10, 2014, 03:09:43 PM
 #43

If you never intend to touch fiat at all you don't need to apply to be a credit union. Credit unions don't deal with commodities. You can just set that up as a club or non profit for tax purposes. Maybe apply for a 501c. Are you planning on being for profit or nonprofit?

The credit union is necessary to get a routing number to be used for direct deposit.

So you are planning on accepting deposits in fiat? I guess I got confused by franky1s post. A bank or credit unions routing number or numbers are used to identify a financial institution usually for the ACH and wire transfer system. The hurdles you will jump through to be a bank will require lots of employees and attorneys. If you are crossing state lines you will need to comply with interstate banking and branching laws which will add more employees. If you're going to deal with international customers too you may need to hire everyone on this forum to help. That's the reason these startups go out and secure big money investors first.

Seriously, I'm not sure you could ever accomplish that without being more expensive than Circle or Coinbase.

The main focus would be on the ACH to access the Electronic Payments Network which allows a "depository institution" as defined in § 19(b) of the Federal Reserve Act, 12 U.S.C. § 461(b), this includes "insured credit unions".

“Federal credit union” means a cooperative association organized in accordance with the provisions of this chapter for the purpose of promoting thrift among its members and creating a source of credit for provident or productive purposes;

The term “insured credit union” means any credit union the member accounts of which are insured in accordance with the provisions of subchapter II of the Federal Credit Union Act.

For a credit union maintaining less than $50 million in deposits it is not too difficult to maintain insurance on users accounts. Especially since the Bitcoin credit union would never hold any fiat in accounts. It would immediately transfer any funds into bitcoins or to another bank account for deposit.

http://www.bitpools.com
Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
QuestionAuthority
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1722


You lead and I'll watch you walk away.


View Profile
October 10, 2014, 03:23:25 PM
 #44

If you never intend to touch fiat at all you don't need to apply to be a credit union. Credit unions don't deal with commodities. You can just set that up as a club or non profit for tax purposes. Maybe apply for a 501c. Are you planning on being for profit or nonprofit?

The credit union is necessary to get a routing number to be used for direct deposit.

So you are planning on accepting deposits in fiat? I guess I got confused by franky1s post. A bank or credit unions routing number or numbers are used to identify a financial institution usually for the ACH and wire transfer system. The hurdles you will jump through to be a bank will require lots of employees and attorneys. If you are crossing state lines you will need to comply with interstate banking and branching laws which will add more employees. If you're going to deal with international customers too you may need to hire everyone on this forum to help. That's the reason these startups go out and secure big money investors first.

Seriously, I'm not sure you could ever accomplish that without being more expensive than Circle or Coinbase.

The main focus would be on the ACH to access the Electronic Payments Network which allows a "depository institution" as defined in § 19(b) of the Federal Reserve Act, 12 U.S.C. § 461(b), this includes "insured credit unions".

“Federal credit union” means a cooperative association organized in accordance with the provisions of this chapter for the purpose of promoting thrift among its members and creating a source of credit for provident or productive purposes;

The term “insured credit union” means any credit union the member accounts of which are insured in accordance with the provisions of subchapter II of the Federal Credit Union Act.

For a credit union maintaining less than $50 million in deposits it is not too difficult to maintain insurance on users accounts. Especially since the Bitcoin credit union would never hold any fiat in accounts. It would immediately transfer any funds into bitcoins or to another bank account for deposit.

Maybe that's your loophole. Since your not going to hold fiat for any great length of time. Credit unions still need to comply with banking laws and AML/KYC. You really need to get the advice of an attorney that specializes in banking law before going any further. That will save you money, headaches and jail time in the future.

One question though, why would you even consider opening a business like this in the fascist USA? You're not in the US, you don't need to bank here, the laws are meant to support the status quo, cripple new entry and innovation, the whole government is corrupt and the people are blind to it. Is Germany a worse place to have a financial institution?

franky1
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1876



View Profile
October 10, 2014, 04:00:29 PM
 #45

you dont need to hire an expensive financial attorney in the early "idea" phase. just ask to have a meeting with a credit union organiser (its free) and they have gone through all the red tape and know what is needed and what is not. then once you know exactly how to best obtain a direct deposit number for individuals to use for their employers. then you can go into phase 2 of attorneys and paperwork.

i still think the fastest way to achieve individual account numbers is the prepaid visa card route or partner with an existant credit union

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Don't take any information given on this forum on face value. Please do your own due diligence & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. If you wish to seek legal FACTUAL advice, then seek the guidance of a LEGAL specialist.
BTCfan668
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 88


View Profile
October 10, 2014, 11:06:08 PM
 #46

If you never intend to touch fiat at all you don't need to apply to be a credit union. Credit unions don't deal with commodities. You can just set that up as a club or non profit for tax purposes. Maybe apply for a 501c. Are you planning on being for profit or nonprofit?

The credit union is necessary to get a routing number to be used for direct deposit.

So you are planning on accepting deposits in fiat? I guess I got confused by franky1s post. A bank or credit unions routing number or numbers are used to identify a financial institution usually for the ACH and wire transfer system. The hurdles you will jump through to be a bank will require lots of employees and attorneys. If you are crossing state lines you will need to comply with interstate banking and branching laws which will add more employees. If you're going to deal with international customers too you may need to hire everyone on this forum to help. That's the reason these startups go out and secure big money investors first.

Seriously, I'm not sure you could ever accomplish that without being more expensive than Circle or Coinbase.

The main focus would be on the ACH to access the Electronic Payments Network which allows a "depository institution" as defined in § 19(b) of the Federal Reserve Act, 12 U.S.C. § 461(b), this includes "insured credit unions".

“Federal credit union” means a cooperative association organized in accordance with the provisions of this chapter for the purpose of promoting thrift among its members and creating a source of credit for provident or productive purposes;

The term “insured credit union” means any credit union the member accounts of which are insured in accordance with the provisions of subchapter II of the Federal Credit Union Act.

For a credit union maintaining less than $50 million in deposits it is not too difficult to maintain insurance on users accounts. Especially since the Bitcoin credit union would never hold any fiat in accounts. It would immediately transfer any funds into bitcoins or to another bank account for deposit.
You would need insurance on the amount you have in customers' accounts until you use the money to buy the bitcoin.

You also need to understand that a direct deposit is little different then accepting a check (the fraud risk is reduced however) as direct deposits can be reversed for a number of reasons. A direct deposit can be charged back and can be "nsf". These are pretty rare, and really only happen with smaller businesses but even then they don't happen very often because most businesses make paying their employees a top priority.

The biggest risk is getting a direct deposit that is initiated by the customer. A few banks allow this, ING direct (which is now owned by capital one) was one of the first banks that started this, but others have jumped on the bankwaggon. I understand that there is no balance requirement for a direct deposit to be sent, but it will be reversed by the issuing bank in the event of NSF in the sending account.
bornil267645
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 406


AltoCenter.com


View Profile WWW
October 11, 2014, 01:54:50 AM
 #47

I think we have Coinbase for that. But don't be fed up. This is the sort of initial thinking that might lead to the biggest community in the world. So keep on expressing your thoughts. Smiley

Eisenhower34
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 894



View Profile
October 11, 2014, 02:29:10 AM
 #48

If you never intend to touch fiat at all you don't need to apply to be a credit union. Credit unions don't deal with commodities. You can just set that up as a club or non profit for tax purposes. Maybe apply for a 501c. Are you planning on being for profit or nonprofit?

The credit union is necessary to get a routing number to be used for direct deposit.

So you are planning on accepting deposits in fiat? I guess I got confused by franky1s post. A bank or credit unions routing number or numbers are used to identify a financial institution usually for the ACH and wire transfer system. The hurdles you will jump through to be a bank will require lots of employees and attorneys. If you are crossing state lines you will need to comply with interstate banking and branching laws which will add more employees. If you're going to deal with international customers too you may need to hire everyone on this forum to help. That's the reason these startups go out and secure big money investors first.

Seriously, I'm not sure you could ever accomplish that without being more expensive than Circle or Coinbase.

The main focus would be on the ACH to access the Electronic Payments Network which allows a "depository institution" as defined in § 19(b) of the Federal Reserve Act, 12 U.S.C. § 461(b), this includes "insured credit unions".

“Federal credit union” means a cooperative association organized in accordance with the provisions of this chapter for the purpose of promoting thrift among its members and creating a source of credit for provident or productive purposes;

The term “insured credit union” means any credit union the member accounts of which are insured in accordance with the provisions of subchapter II of the Federal Credit Union Act.

For a credit union maintaining less than $50 million in deposits it is not too difficult to maintain insurance on users accounts. Especially since the Bitcoin credit union would never hold any fiat in accounts. It would immediately transfer any funds into bitcoins or to another bank account for deposit.
You would need insurance on the amount you have in customers' accounts until you use the money to buy the bitcoin.

You also need to understand that a direct deposit is little different then accepting a check (the fraud risk is reduced however) as direct deposits can be reversed for a number of reasons. A direct deposit can be charged back and can be "nsf". These are pretty rare, and really only happen with smaller businesses but even then they don't happen very often because most businesses make paying their employees a top priority.

The biggest risk is getting a direct deposit that is initiated by the customer. A few banks allow this, ING direct (which is now owned by capital one) was one of the first banks that started this, but others have jumped on the bankwaggon. I understand that there is no balance requirement for a direct deposit to be sent, but it will be reversed by the issuing bank in the event of NSF in the sending account.
Another risk is that the employer overpays the employee. This is somewhat common and the employer can simply reverse the amount of the overpayment from the employee's account; this is something the employee agrees to when they sign up for direct deposit.

This sounds a lot like coinbase but with extra regulatory costs and risks. I would suggest creating a service similar to coinbase with similar risk controls and your service will take off.

If someone wanted to use their entire paycheck (or any other amount) to buy bitcoin they could simply setup an automatic purchase with coinbase
Elwar
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2310


www.bitpools.com


View Profile WWW
October 11, 2014, 06:57:01 AM
 #49

Without people being paid in Bitcoin we will forever be in the mindset of "buying bitcoins". At some point we will need to transition from buying bitcoins to buying fiat for the few things Bitcoin does not provide.

I am not, and would not think of, doing this alone as a business. I am in IT, just to apply yuo need someone with CPA or banking experience as the director and the members elect a board. I can help facilitate but cannot do it on my own, there would need to be community support of 500 to 3000 people showing an interest.

http://www.bitpools.com
Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
tanaka
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 87


View Profile
October 11, 2014, 12:52:15 PM
 #50

Anything that would make bitcoin progress, I will support!

Why should you support something like this? It will surely create chaos anytime soon. Smiley

Jamie_Boulder
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 378


View Profile WWW
October 11, 2014, 01:58:59 PM
 #51

I personally love the idea however from a regulation standpoint I can see it being VERY difficult to pick up off the ground.

crazy-pilot
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 463



View Profile
October 11, 2014, 05:50:59 PM
 #52

Without people being paid in Bitcoin we will forever be in the mindset of "buying bitcoins". At some point we will need to transition from buying bitcoins to buying fiat for the few things Bitcoin does not provide.

I am not, and would not think of, doing this alone as a business. I am in IT, just to apply yuo need someone with CPA or banking experience as the director and the members elect a board. I can help facilitate but cannot do it on my own, there would need to be community support of 500 to 3000 people showing an interest.

I don't think this will ever happen, especially in developed countries. In theory people could use bitcoin as their main currency in third world countries that have very unstable economies.

I think the costs are simply too high in order for a bitcoin CU to be a viable option. (and there are too many cheaper alternatives)

funtotry
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


Ever wanted to run your own casino? PM me for info


View Profile
October 12, 2014, 02:24:28 AM
 #53

If you never intend to touch fiat at all you don't need to apply to be a credit union. Credit unions don't deal with commodities. You can just set that up as a club or non profit for tax purposes. Maybe apply for a 501c. Are you planning on being for profit or nonprofit?

The credit union is necessary to get a routing number to be used for direct deposit.

So you are planning on accepting deposits in fiat? I guess I got confused by franky1s post. A bank or credit unions routing number or numbers are used to identify a financial institution usually for the ACH and wire transfer system. The hurdles you will jump through to be a bank will require lots of employees and attorneys. If you are crossing state lines you will need to comply with interstate banking and branching laws which will add more employees. If you're going to deal with international customers too you may need to hire everyone on this forum to help. That's the reason these startups go out and secure big money investors first.

Seriously, I'm not sure you could ever accomplish that without being more expensive than Circle or Coinbase.

The main focus would be on the ACH to access the Electronic Payments Network which allows a "depository institution" as defined in § 19(b) of the Federal Reserve Act, 12 U.S.C. § 461(b), this includes "insured credit unions".

“Federal credit union” means a cooperative association organized in accordance with the provisions of this chapter for the purpose of promoting thrift among its members and creating a source of credit for provident or productive purposes;

The term “insured credit union” means any credit union the member accounts of which are insured in accordance with the provisions of subchapter II of the Federal Credit Union Act.

For a credit union maintaining less than $50 million in deposits it is not too difficult to maintain insurance on users accounts. Especially since the Bitcoin credit union would never hold any fiat in accounts. It would immediately transfer any funds into bitcoins or to another bank account for deposit.
You would need insurance on the amount you have in customers' accounts until you use the money to buy the bitcoin.

You also need to understand that a direct deposit is little different then accepting a check (the fraud risk is reduced however) as direct deposits can be reversed for a number of reasons. A direct deposit can be charged back and can be "nsf". These are pretty rare, and really only happen with smaller businesses but even then they don't happen very often because most businesses make paying their employees a top priority.

The biggest risk is getting a direct deposit that is initiated by the customer. A few banks allow this, ING direct (which is now owned by capital one) was one of the first banks that started this, but others have jumped on the bankwaggon. I understand that there is no balance requirement for a direct deposit to be sent, but it will be reversed by the issuing bank in the event of NSF in the sending account.
Another risk is that the employer overpays the employee. This is somewhat common and the employer can simply reverse the amount of the overpayment from the employee's account; this is something the employee agrees to when they sign up for direct deposit.

This sounds a lot like coinbase but with extra regulatory costs and risks. I would suggest creating a service similar to coinbase with similar risk controls and your service will take off.

If someone wanted to use their entire paycheck (or any other amount) to buy bitcoin they could simply setup an automatic purchase with coinbase
Exactly. If you were to setup some kind of service that automatically buys bitcoin when a person gets their paycheck then you would need to buy the corresponding bitcoin on an exchange somehow. You would need to pay exchange fees and would encounter slippage (just like coinbase does). A much better solution would be to compete with coinbase.

One disadvantage you would have over coinbase is that no one would be selling their bitcoin to you (which would allow you to save on slippage and exchange fees) so from the start you will have higher costs for providing the same service.

Kluge
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218


Michael, send me some coins before I hitman you


View Profile
October 12, 2014, 02:29:55 AM
 #54

I'd very strongly suggest trying to get in touch with an exec from BancVue if serious. They can help you out a ton with start-up, logistics, and shared branching. Trying to get a sit-down around the time of a trade show would probably be your best bet. https://www.bancvue.com/about/upcoming-events.html

Don't mix your coins someone said isn't legal
Pages: « 1 2 [3]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!