[ANN][MEW]Discussion&Vote #1 - Communication Strategy - Members only

[rpietila]

Welcome to the first MEW economic* discussion and voting round.
*votepower-based


Dear sirs,

The thing to discuss and vote upon is the midterm strategic direction on where to take our communication, both internal and external. Midterm is 3-6 months. The result of the D&V round is a "Resolution". The following excerpts from our Articles of Association govern/relate to this round:

To become a member, one has to buy votes, which carry a fixed price 1 XMR per 1 vote. One Identity is allowed to buy maximum 1000 votes. Minimum is defined by MEW according to what is practical [currently: 10 votes /RP].
- - -
MEW is a direct democracy based on economic majority. The highest governing body is community vote (CV), which has the jurisdiction on all matters, unless otherwise specified, with a simple majority of votes cast ("majority"), unless otherwise specified.
- - -
MEW disregards non-member attempts to influence its action, welcoming the interested parties to become members instead.
- - -
Voting may be regarding:
- General Fund spending initiative
- Appointment or dismissal of an Executive
- Making a Resolution
- Making a Public Declaration
- Change of the Articles of Association

Voting procedure is as follows:
- voting is triggered
- matter to be voted upon is published
- 168 hours of discussion time
- final proposal to be voted upon is fixed
- 168 hours of voting time
- publishing of the result

All resolutions except spending may be passed in express order as follows: if a required majority of all outstanding votes is affirmative, the result is immediately obtained.

To give weight to the vote, it is possible to attach a conditional resignation to the vote. If the result comes against such voter, he is automatically resigned from MEW as a result and refunded. If the vote was concerning spending and the voter was against it, his refund is calculated prior to the spending takes place. It is not possible to revert such resignation except by applying for membership anew.

Members may proxy all or part of their vote-power to another member. No member may have more than 10,000 total vote-power, if this happens the excess will not be counted.

As Operational Executive, tasked to organize the voting in practice, I have made the following decision concerning how it shall be carried out:

- Discussion time is the stated 168 hours following the timestamp of this post. During this time we should optimally find a consensus on the result so that the actual voting will quickly reach the supermajority (not defined strictly, but indicates an economic near-consensus). If not, two proposals will be drafted and put to vote against each other.

- The official discussion will be made in this thread under strict supervision. No outsiders may take part of the discussion, only MEW members appearing in the official vote list may do. Members Executive David Latapie updates the list and it will be updated before the voting commences.

- It is encouraged to use any and all other communication channels for discussion as well, proprietary and public. Using them, it is possible to hear also the non-member feedback, which may be useful (remember, non-members account for 60%+ of the moneros, and 100% of the newcomers! )

- The Resolution will be in a (Whereas, Whereas, Whereas, ..., Now, therefore) format. This means that there are several items of background information for the resolution, including why it is important to make it, and why the result reached is better than the proposed alternatives. It shall be less than 1 page long in total, about half a page is good.

- Posting to this thread shall be made according to the rules. First the poster states his number of votes, and may post any additional introduction if he so wishes. Then he posts the reason of posting, which may be supporting some proposal (or part thereof), adding a new proposal (or part thereof), or "discussion" (including debunking existing proposals). If the post is about the practicalities of voting, instead of the content being discussed, use "interrupt", but sparingly. I will delete interrupts when they are addressed.

- If everyone understands that we are talking about issues instead of people, and in the end only the number of votes count, hopefully it is not needed to go any more to the depths of moderation.

[1714283269]

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[1714283269]

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[rpietila]

1,000 votes

To set up a new whole proposal.


Proposal text (#1 ver 1)

Whereas, BCT has been proven to be an energetic platform for discussion;

Whereas, almost all the members of the MEW are active in BCT already, making its use very convenient;

Whereas, the recent fall in BTC price and the decimation of altcoins has lead to our userbase and fiat resources shrinking considerably and they must be put to more important uses than setting up proprietary forums and communication tools;

Whereas, the current altcoinworld holds a great deal of people that over time could be persuaded of Monero's speciality (especially MEW, which they don't have);

Now, therefore, we decide that the MEW will base both its internal and external communication as much as is practical in BCT (not stopping the use of existing proprietary channels, however, but also not pushing the new members to use them).

[rpietila]

1,000 votes

To set up a new whole proposal.


Proposal text (#2 ver 1)

Whereas, BCT has been proven to be a great drain of time and energy for Monero users;

Whereas, directing new people to BCT is a shame due to high FUD content and low S/N ratio almost throughout;

Whereas, the possible surge of XMR, related or not related to the turnaround in BTC requires a fresh new start, free of the baggage of the past and attempts of outsiders to influence it (which is also forbidden by our rules);

Whereas, the situation at hand allows us to concentrate on there organizational activities better, due to the lack of financial resources to do something that actually costs money;

Now, therefore, we decide that the MEW will as soon as is practical, move its internal communication to dedicated forums, which also allow encryption, ease of moderated discussions and small workgroups. This move should be made in connection to the larger migration of Monero community to its dedicated forums.

[rpietila]

1,000 votes

Support for proposal #1.


Decision-making would be easy if the proposals had only pros and no cons. Here I am concerned about the correct balance between robustness and getting-things-happen. Some may hold the view that Monero is a hobby project and it's nice to see what happens. I do not have such a view - I am a person wanting to be an instrument of change in the world to the better, and also investor. My sense of urgency is therefore greater than that of someone with less stake in the project. When I played Civilization series, it took me long to think about the moves. I never thought that now is the time to take it easy. But the result was that I usually won.

So now the background is that Monero has been very active in the forum, currently holding 5/35 places in the Altcoin subforum main page. It has been also contested - 2/5 of the entries are ridicule threads and only 3/5 are supporter threads (currently: this voting, Monero Speculation, and Jojatekok's GUI wallet). With great visibility comes great responsibility. Monero's enemies have found it very lucrative to set up accounts posing as Monero supporters, to make Monero look silly, and even to accuse it of spamming the whole section.

A knee-jerk reaction by some supporters was to actually start preparations for doing it. I believe this is a worthy long-term goal. Currently, due to my failed attempts of trying to move out of BCT myself (to smaller, "quality" forums), I cannot yet support it. With the recent price action, it is likely that the number of users has shrank with the marketcap, possibly numbering only 5,000. Of this target group alone, I don't think I will find enough audience for my posting and cannot personally think of moving. I can only post the cream of the crop to one place, and if it is here, what is the reason for the other?

This thread is trying to serve as an example where quality much outweighs quantity. I hope that at present, all the advantages of a separate forum, save privacy, can be instated here as well, with much greater audience. The separate MEW website project with blogs and links should be done if a dedicated administrator can be found. Finding the right way to do these things takes time, but time for turning the tide of XMR is now. Therefore I am in favor of fully taking into advantage of BCT until we have the critical mass of users for the dedicated forum.

It also cannot be underestimated that while there is vocal ridicule concerning the way the MEW is "institutionalizing" Monero (with the hope of its quick demise as a result), it may also be that some of the $1,000,000,000s worth of people who actually read BCT, may find the governance model something they have vainly sought after until now, and decide to give it a go. Even if our primary audience is in the people that do not own any cryptocurrencies, it would be sad to forsake the opportunity of showing BCT that things can be made differently, and to make it shown brightly, we must practice it consistently for at least 3-6 months, the duration of this decision.

The IRC channel that we have, is private, but is not suitable for structured conversation, nor for presenting issues in a coherent way. I will certainly continue to use it, and encourage others to do so, as a complement.

[McHaggis]

300 votes

Support for proposal #1.


I believe that the MEW should provide the community with a good example of what should form one of the tenants of  Crypto Currency Best Practice, that is to say that all coins should be backed by a visible community that supports the developers and helps build technical and non technical improvements whilst voting on important issues in a fair way. The MEW should have a presence here so that all users can be reminded of the work it does and the amount of money that it has so far passed directly onto the developers.

Remember that it is not just the people who are in the workgroup who should be reading these threads. Anyone who sees issues being voted on and actions being taken should be able to take something from the process and press their own community to build a similar group.

If we were to remove quality discussion from this forum it would not only make it hard for new users to find the MEW in order for it to grow but also would let the weeds and discontent thrive on Bitcointalk poisoning the well for everyone.

Generally the community is getting better, remember back to when a outright ponzi scheme launched by Pirateat40 (sp) was responsible for moving the BTC price 20% over a couple of months. FUD and trolls will continue to be a problem, however the fix isn't to ignore the problem, its to change the culture surrounding crypto currency.

[NewLiberty]

110 Votes supporting proposal #1

Why change to something else unless the something else is better?
Proposal #2 is that we make something new. 
If proposal #2 were changed to move to something else that is better, I'd support #2.
Some examples of forums I would think of as better include CryptoCrypt.org and Prolific.com.

[dEBRUYNE]

100 Votes supporting proposal #1

Agreeing mainly with the arguments of the people above here.

[myagui]

10 votes supporting proposal #2.

For the reasons stated above, and adding that the Monero community will better engage a wider audience, by stepping outside of this (sometimes stinky) bubble that is bitcointalk. It is extremely difficult to organize subgroups for specialized discussion with the current communication format.
Cheers!

[lordfoo]

10 votes for Proposal #1.

If it had not been for the altcurrencies subforum I would not have known about xmr.

[whoknowsthisnose]

10 votes for Proposal #1

It is the "quick 'n dirty" solution, but we need:

1. a place for structured discussions, irc does not fit this purpose (or just for ppl staying all day in) and we need it now
2. a public place for the discussions, to newbies not be excluded and to deprive steam pressure from boiling rumors and we need it now
3. the public feedback even of non-monerians (we want to catch them  ) and we need it now

In mid-term there might be better solutions, but the development requires time and engagment, actually other issues have priority.

(my prophetic tomcat claims that the day will come, when BCT will be renamed in MonT, but he will not reveal to me when  )

[ArticMine]

1000 Votes.

Support for proposal #2

The crucial point to understand here is that while proposal #1 is a valid option in the short term it must be seen as an interim solution, with proposal #2 as the valid long term option. Proposal #2 calls for the MEW to move to dedicated forums when practical. "When practical" will be determined among other things by the creation a successful XMR forum. Given the choice between voting for the best short term option or the best long term solution I will always choose the best long term option. This follows the principle that when one takes care of the long term the short term will take care of itself, while the reverse is not the case.

The proposal I feel will have the best chance of consensus is to treat proposal #1 as an interim choice until it is practical to implement proposal #2 as the valid long term option.

[Ultros]

40 votes.

Support for proposal #2

For the reasons stated above by ArticMine.

A simple forum doesn't cost much. In-fact, many CPU-miners must have enough server-capacity to host a dozen of forums.
We need to spread before suffocating under the crumbling of trolls, or before another BCX uses XMR as an excuse to increase his renown.
I also support #2 because it's more inclusive. Having a proper forum doesn't prevent us to post on BTC while deciding to stay exclusively on BTC prevent us to flee on a safe place whenever we feel the need.

EDIT: Oh well...: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg9109547#msg9109547
https://forum.monero.cc/

[Johnny Mnemonic]

100 votes for proposal #2

I agree with ArticMine's reasoning above. Proposal #2 is the long term solution and the move will happen when the time is right.

[David Latapie]

200 votes for proposal #2 now that the official Monero forum is out (even though there is not yet any MEW section).

I believe it is an important enough even to allow people to change their vote if they so desire.

[farfiman]

10 votes for proposal #2

No need to repeat reasons- plenty above by others.

[rpietila]

1,000 votes

Interrupt (moderator action), to explain the voting process

I believe it is an important enough even to allow people to change their vote if they so desire.

Sure. This is not even voting, yet. This is just structural discussion that precedes voting and lasts for 7 days precisely for the reason that any good points would receive all the backing there is available, and any bad points would be exposed as bad. When this is over, then the voting may start, and even though there is 7 more days reserved, it is likely that in most cases the 51% required will be reached in express time.

The reason why I asked to introduce yourself with the number of votes is just the convenience to all readers.

Any support to any proposal in this stage is not binding.

The proposal texts are likely not the final ones. Existing proposals may be amended by their "owners". Anyone can propose a new text and can use an existing one as a basis (open source).

New points to "discussion" without connection to existing proposal texts are also much appreciated. Without this, the vote organizer (me) would have too much power in staging the scene as well as directing the discussion.

For practical reasons (and those alone), at present I don't support for changing the vote after the voting commences. When we get a state-of-the-art voting system that automatically calculates the votes, then I'll support it.

[dnaleor]

50 votes for proposal 2

with this addition: I think a few topics on BTCT are neccesary for exposure.

[lordfoo]

I did not realize that we were not yet at the vote stage.  Since this thread is titled "Discussion & Vote", I'm assuming that once the 168 hours are up, there will be some obvious "request for vote" post in this thread.

In any case, since the new forum is out, and also because of ArcticMine's excellent point, I'm leaning the other way (towards proposal 2).

[Shrikez]

50 votes for proposal #2.

most reasons have been mentioned already.

The sooner the official XMR forum will offer interesting, competent and helpful content the better. We should work on having search engines point to XMR forums rather sooner than later as I reckon interested "fresh" people would be rather intimidated by coming from Google to the equivalent of a medieval bazaar that is BCT, especially the altcoin section.

That does of course not exclude the necessary exposure on Bitcontalk as the historical hub of all things crypto.

[David Latapie]

The sooner the official XMR forum will offer interesting, competent and helpful content the better. We should work on having search engines point to XMR forums rather sooner than later as I reckon interested "fresh" people would be rather intimidated by coming from Google to the equivalent of a medieval bazaar that is BCT, especially the altcoin section.

That does of course not exclude the necessary exposure on Bitcontalk as the historical hub of all things crypto.

I could start creating a thread now, but since we decided for 168 hours then voting, we'd better wait the end of the vote to make any kind of official move.

Of couse, as individual, you can post whatever you want