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Question: Consider you are running a commercial website that needs to quote small amounts of bitcoin, how would you call 100 satoshis?
100 satoshis - 49 (44.1%)
0.000001 BTC - 4 (3.6%)
0.001 mBTC - 2 (1.8%)
1 µBTC - 16 (14.4%)
1 bit - 33 (29.7%)
Something else (Please state your ideas in this thread!!) - 7 (6.3%)
Total Voters: 111

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Author Topic: When quoting small amounts of bitcoin, how do you call 100 satoshis?  (Read 8356 times)
KingOfTrolls (OP)
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October 22, 2014, 10:14:26 AM
 #141

Anyhoo, I will sum up the future of Bitcoin. For any of you early adopters out there, consider this your cheat sheet to know where the future of Bitcoin develops:

* "Bitcoin" is still the technology.

* 1 bit will be the "base unit".

* the smallest unit will be "1 bit cent", also known as "1 satoshi" to honor Satoshi Nakamoto. (sort of like 0.01 USD is referred to as a "1 cent", and also its proper name "1 penny", respectively)

* Some people will understand that "1 bitcoin = very rich". The term "Bitcoinaire" may even come up.

* XBT is the abbreviation -- it fits beautifully with "Bitcoin" and "bits", even though that wouldn't be intellectually 100% correct.

* Exchanges, traders, accountants, etc. will understand the price of Bitcoin as "$400 / XBT"

* Laymen will look at the price of Bitcoin as "2500 bits / dollar" (US Dollar) ... bookkeepers and accountants will be familiar with this as well, if necessary.

You try to predict the future with a high degree of accuracy, and you state your prediction with a high degree of certainity.

This is what I call "hubris"... Cheesy

I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, it's hard for your average user, and your average adopter, to understand what a "SAT" is, especially in the world of Bitcoin. If you go ahead and tell them, "oh, it's short for Satoshi! The guy who worked a lot on Bitcoin in the beginning had the first name Satoshi. He's anonymous and stuff. But don't ask about that".

...well, that's just adding more confusion. (Even if you make the explanation shorter). I'm not saying this because it is what I believe, I am saying it because it is the reactions and feelings of the layman (and even very technically-minded people).

Will newbies and average users understand? Yes.

Will they remember that "1 sat" is the base unit for Bitcoin? As most people forgot things very quickly, my *intentional* interactions with the layman show that they just don't remember "Satoshi" or "Sat". They entirely remember "bits". Things I have heard include:

"Oh ya... a 'bit', right?"

"Um, it was 1 'yoshi' right?" (to which I reply: "no, 1 SA-toshi")

On my website I have explainers about what a "bitcoin" is and what a "satoshi" is, and I'm in regular communication (via email, web-form, etc.) with my site's users.
As a matter of fact I haven't heard any such questions or understanding problems about "satoshi".
(The website has been running for two years, the faucet was added one week ago.)

Anyways, this isn't about "What is easier: sats or bits?" — this is about "What is easier: sats or bits&sats?"

Many "bits" adherents seem to forget that when using "bits" we still have to explain what a satoshi is, because sooner or later, the users will want to know what the smallest denomination of bitcoin is.
More specifically I'd have to add a third explainer about "bits" in addition to the two explainers that I already have (about satoshi and bitcoin).

Obviously I'm not too lazy to write up these explainers, but I'm rather worried that this would add unnecessary complexity to my website (which is targeted towards newbies) and bitcoin as a whole.

Thus I conclude, even if bits is easier to understand than sats (which I doubt), then adding this unit to the system would still make it more difficult for newbies to understand.

But I cannot understand why the new base unit should be 100 SAT instead of 1 SAT.
Bits advocates a standardised, conventional, universal, currency format, accurate to 2 decimal places. Sats has merit, but getting the world to change to a new format is a big ask, it's probably not going to happen.

It is true that many world currencies use two decimal places. However, you shouldn't fall for the composition fallacy.

Humans are already used to the fact that different currencies have different divisibility, and the ISO 4217 standard even includes a mechanism to catalogue those using the "exponent" attribute.

Also, using plain integers to measure value is not a "new format" at all:
There is good evidence that the human brain prefers to use integers and intuitively uses integers even when presented with a decimal number. That's the reason why 2.34 $ is pronounced "two dollars and thirtyfour cents" and not "two point three four dollars".
Therefore, as humans already use integers to mentally visualise values, it will be easy to transition to "two hundred and thirtyfour sats" (given that the exchange rate is appropriate).

By the way, speaking about standardisation, are you aware of ISO/IEC 80000-13? Roll Eyes
The unit "bit" is already standardised!

Other reasons are more subjective; imo it feels right, it sounds right, it looks right; it's a core feature of the Bitcoin technology; at this stage it's value is pretty small, not too big, just right for this stage of the adoption curve. It's easy to say. It sounds digital, and thus self-contextual. It's user friendly.

That's right: The unit "bit" has some merits, and no one will prevent you from using it. I can see that a subset of the bitcoin community will use "bits".

However, we were talking about the base unit here. And it is a necessary condition for a unit to be universally accepted before it can become the base unit.

After nearly one year of discussion, the opposition against "bits" is as strong as ever, so I cannot see how it could become universally accepted in any foreseeable future.
On the other hand, the unit "satoshi" seems to be universally accepted, even by those who would actually prefer a different unit. Both "bits" advocates and "bits" opponents will agree that the smallest denomination of bitcoin should be called "satoshi".

Thus it stands a good chance to become the new base unit.
bitcoinpiece
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October 22, 2014, 02:01:46 PM
 #142

Anyhoo, I will sum up the future of Bitcoin. For any of you early adopters out there, consider this your cheat sheet to know where the future of Bitcoin develops:

* "Bitcoin" is still the technology.

* 1 bit will be the "base unit".

* the smallest unit will be "1 bit cent", also known as "1 satoshi" to honor Satoshi Nakamoto. (sort of like 0.01 USD is referred to as a "1 cent", and also its proper name "1 penny", respectively)

* Some people will understand that "1 bitcoin = very rich". The term "Bitcoinaire" may even come up.

* XBT is the abbreviation -- it fits beautifully with "Bitcoin" and "bits", even though that wouldn't be intellectually 100% correct.

* Exchanges, traders, accountants, etc. will understand the price of Bitcoin as "$400 / XBT"

* Laymen will look at the price of Bitcoin as "2500 bits / dollar" (US Dollar) ... bookkeepers and accountants will be familiar with this as well, if necessary.

In response to KingOfTrolls:
I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, it's hard for your average user, and your average adopter, to understand what a "SAT" is, especially in the world of Bitcoin. If you go ahead and tell them, "oh, it's short for Satoshi! The guy who worked a lot on Bitcoin in the beginning had the first name Satoshi. He's anonymous and stuff. But don't ask about that".

...well, that's just adding more confusion. (Even if you make the explanation shorter). I'm not saying this because it is what I believe, I am saying it because it is the reactions and feelings of the layman (and even very technically-minded people).

Will newbies and average users understand? Yes.

Will they remember that "1 sat" is the base unit for Bitcoin? As most people forgot things very quickly, my *intentional* interactions with the layman show that they just don't remember "Satoshi" or "Sat". They entirely remember "bits". Things I have heard include:

"Oh ya... a 'bit', right?"

"Um, it was 1 'yoshi' right?" (to which I reply: "no, 1 SA-toshi")

It is too confusing. How can a 50 year old man process this in their mind.
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October 22, 2014, 03:02:10 PM
 #143

On my website ...

After nearly one year of discussion, the opposition against "bits" is as strong as ever, so I cannot see how it could become universally accepted in any foreseeable future.
You have taken your position and are using sats on your website, great, good luck with that. You just don't seem to see how biased you are to that position you have made, biased, and deaf to any argument.

Just look at your statement "the opposition against "bits" is as strong as ever". Do you mean your own personal opposition? because it clearly isn't true for the community in general as there is a very clear and strong shift to bits.

You have also greatly over complicated things, (something the SI folks do so well). You bog yourself down and wonder how on earth you are going to explain that 1 bit = 100 satoshis. It's not rocket science. People get it.

Anyway no hard feelings, each to his own. Enjoy using sats, you're free to choose what you want, no need for all the BS to justify yourself.
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October 22, 2014, 03:53:27 PM
 #144

Anyhoo, I will sum up the future of Bitcoin. For any of you early adopters out there, consider this your cheat sheet to know where the future of Bitcoin develops:

* "Bitcoin" is still the technology.

* 1 bit will be the "base unit".

* the smallest unit will be "1 bit cent", also known as "1 satoshi" to honor Satoshi Nakamoto. (sort of like 0.01 USD is referred to as a "1 cent", and also its proper name "1 penny", respectively)

* Some people will understand that "1 bitcoin = very rich". The term "Bitcoinaire" may even come up.

* XBT is the abbreviation -- it fits beautifully with "Bitcoin" and "bits", even though that wouldn't be intellectually 100% correct.

* Exchanges, traders, accountants, etc. will understand the price of Bitcoin as "$400 / XBT"

* Laymen will look at the price of Bitcoin as "2500 bits / dollar" (US Dollar) ... bookkeepers and accountants will be familiar with this as well, if necessary.

In response to KingOfTrolls:
I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, it's hard for your average user, and your average adopter, to understand what a "SAT" is, especially in the world of Bitcoin. If you go ahead and tell them, "oh, it's short for Satoshi! The guy who worked a lot on Bitcoin in the beginning had the first name Satoshi. He's anonymous and stuff. But don't ask about that".

...well, that's just adding more confusion. (Even if you make the explanation shorter). I'm not saying this because it is what I believe, I am saying it because it is the reactions and feelings of the layman (and even very technically-minded people).

Will newbies and average users understand? Yes.

Will they remember that "1 sat" is the base unit for Bitcoin? As most people forgot things very quickly, my *intentional* interactions with the layman show that they just don't remember "Satoshi" or "Sat". They entirely remember "bits". Things I have heard include:

"Oh ya... a 'bit', right?"

"Um, it was 1 'yoshi' right?" (to which I reply: "no, 1 SA-toshi")

It is too confusing. How can a 50 year old man process this in their mind.

Hey hey that's a very good point actually, we have to keep it simple!
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October 22, 2014, 04:10:11 PM
 #145

100 satoshi will sound the most known, i recommend doing that  Grin
sakira
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October 22, 2014, 04:53:55 PM
 #146

yes i also agree with 100 satoshi, memorable, and easy on the mention Smiley

sometimes the layman, they are always one mention as examples 10k satoshi and 10k  bitcoin. when what they mean is 10k satoshi Smiley
and I often heard them Smiley
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October 22, 2014, 05:00:07 PM
 #147

Just look at your statement "the opposition against "bits" is as strong as ever". Do you mean your own personal opposition? because it clearly isn't true for the community in general as there is a very clear and strong shift to bits.

He said on page 8 of a thread entitled "When quoting small amounts of bitcoin, how do you call 100 satoshis?"
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October 22, 2014, 06:09:22 PM
 #148

I think the SI base-unit for mass is the kg, further adding to the confusion.

Just no. The base unit for mass in the SI system is the gram. Defined as the mass of 1 ml of water at STP.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
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October 22, 2014, 06:17:41 PM
 #149

I think the SI base-unit for mass is the kg, further adding to the confusion.

Just no. The base unit for mass in the SI system is the gram. Defined as the mass of 1 ml of water at STP.

No, the SI base unit for mass is the kilogram, and it's the only base unit not defined by a fundamental physical property - though that may change very soon.

This space intentionally left blank.
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October 22, 2014, 08:52:43 PM
 #150

1 bit = 100 satoshi.
pequelore
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October 23, 2014, 02:54:40 AM
 #151

1 bit = 100 satoshi.

Is "bit" the official term?
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October 23, 2014, 02:55:57 AM
 #152

I think the SI base-unit for mass is the kg, further adding to the confusion.

Just no. The base unit for mass in the SI system is the gram. Defined as the mass of 1 ml of water at STP.

No, the SI base unit for mass is the kilogram, and it's the only base unit not defined by a fundamental physical property - though that may change very soon.

Mea culpa. my (mis)education has led me astray.

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October 23, 2014, 05:04:03 AM
 #153

1 bit = 100 satoshi.

Is "bit" the official term?

No, but it does appear to have some of the big players behind it.

Since Coinbase adoption, I have mostly stopped following it. Apparently many wallets support it as well.

It is also apparent that Americans find the Metric system confusing for some reason. Though in grade 2, it was taught with props: 10 cubes make a stick of 10, 10 sticks make a sheet of 100. 10 sheets of 100 make a cube of 1000. Actually that is not explaining the Metric system per se: that was explaining how Arabic numerals work. I think all the metric names for orders of magnitude were covered in grade 3.

Edit: removed duplicate 2011 discussion link.

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October 23, 2014, 05:34:48 AM
 #154


Ha, I never knew this.  Thanks.

Did you consider adding Gavin's recent endorsement of "bits" to your list?
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October 23, 2014, 05:50:49 AM
 #155

No, too lazy Cheesy

I think http://zibcoin.org/ just converted me to "zib".

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October 23, 2014, 06:02:10 AM
 #156


Lol, yeah, I remember commenting on that back in March.

Good luck zibcoin! Smiley
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October 23, 2014, 06:49:36 AM
 #157

I'd probably say 100 satoshis, and 0.000001 BTC in brackets or so.

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October 23, 2014, 06:58:24 AM
 #158

I call it as it is 100 satoshi or the more common term now a days is "dust"
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October 25, 2014, 02:03:47 PM
 #159

1 bit = 100 satoshi.

Is "bit" the official term?

No, but it does appear to have some of the big players behind it.

Since Coinbase adoption, I have mostly stopped following it. Apparently many wallets support it as well.

It is also apparent that Americans find the Metric system confusing for some reason. Though in grade 2, it was taught with props: 10 cubes make a stick of 10, 10 sticks make a sheet of 100. 10 sheets of 100 make a cube of 1000. Actually that is not explaining the Metric system per se: that was explaining how Arabic numerals work. I think all the metric names for orders of magnitude were covered in grade 3.

Edit: removed duplicate 2011 discussion link.

Good point phillipsjk...looks like bits "won" Smiley As teukon mentioned, Gavin (senior bitcoin developer) also adopted "bits". Other services I have found that entirely use "bits" as the smaller unit:

http://gambit.com -- tons of fun games, play for bits.
http://breadwallet.com -- best iOS wallet, hands down.
https://wallofcoins.com -- get cash for your bitcoin fast.

Good closing for this post, especially with all of the Bitcoin peeps understanding what "bits" is Smiley

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October 25, 2014, 04:19:45 PM
 #160

No, idea. I usually just called it whatever they called it.
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