When quoting small amounts of bitcoin, how do you call 100 satoshis?

[franky1]

It should be used the standard international prefix, which is:

deci   d   0.1
centi   c   0.01
milli   m   0.001
micro     μ   0.000001

thats top down.. people prefer bottom up
no one uses 'deci' dollar, instead thy use:

nickel=5cents
dime=10cents
quater=25cents

no one uses microtonnes, instead thy use:

ounces
grams

milli and micro are for th scienc and maths community, satoshi, bits, finneys would be for the social (average joe) community.

[okae]

i am always using the satoshi term, rest are a little bit confusing for ppl who is not related to those terms, you know, those terms can be misleading and confusing.


so my vote is for 100 satoshis.

[RodeoX]

I'd like to coin Centoshi for 100 Satoshi. 

[KingOfTrolls]

in the dollar world no one says "zero point zero one dollars" thus the whole decimal system DOES need a common name for the small stuff.
some say penny some say cent.

after all small gold measures are not measures in millitonnes or microtonnes. they are measured in grams and ounces. so far the main buzz words are 'bit' and then 'finney'

i personally say 'bit', even though right now its still hard to do a single transaction of a 'bit' unless its part of a multisend. thus not everyone is using it as a common place name or decided their preference, due to their lack of personal need to. but as bitcoin continues to develop and coins begin to spread amongst more adopters the need for a small measure name will increase.

but one thing is for sure, seeing a faucet advertised as "giving free bitcoins" yet the reality being dust(random decimal) amounts is bad and i would have to say in that scenario it would be advantageous to use a term to describe smaller measure would benefit the OP now

i use the term dust(random decimal) or sats(precise decimal) if the amount is not exactly in increments of 0.00000100. just like people dont say that $0.56 is 11 nickels and 1 cent. or 5 dimes and 6 cent, they simply say 56cents.

so there is still a need for "satoshi's" but a name for 100 sats is also needed. and i think for long term understanding and future-proofing peoples comfort zones a bottom up (satoshi -> bitcoin) is easier to manage rather than a top down (bitcoin -> satoshi) as no one wants to be saying "Point Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh One Oh Oh Bee Tee Cee" as it sounds more like something you would say in bed, not a shop

so satoshi's, bits/finneys, other measures can all work happily together. alot better that the 'oh oh oh oh' orgasm screams, that people find harder to measure with so many zero's

I agree with most of your posting. Except I don't understand the red part.

Would you care to elaborate: Do we really need a special name for 100 satoshis, instead of just calling it... "100 satoshis"?

[Waramp22]

I agree with most of your posting. Except I don't understand the red part.

Would you care to elaborate: Do we really need a special name for 100 satoshis, instead of just calling it... "100 satoshis"?

It is because people are familiar with having a unit of currency that can be used for everyday purchases, but in some cases broken down even farther to be precise. $1 = 100 cents.

In the future bitcoin will be worth so much, that we will be buying items in stores with fractions of a bitcoin. .001 - .000001 range.  Imagine buying a new computer chair tomorrow and being asked for 20999 cents? No, the chair is 210 dollars. The cents are simply irrelevant in larger purchases. Because of this, we need an alternate unit to be used when satoshis don't matter.

[51percemt]

in the dollar world no one says "zero point zero one dollars" thus the whole decimal system DOES need a common name for the small stuff.
some say penny some say cent.

after all small gold measures are not measures in millitonnes or microtonnes. they are measured in grams and ounces. so far the main buzz words are 'bit' and then 'finney'

i personally say 'bit', even though right now its still hard to do a single transaction of a 'bit' unless its part of a multisend. thus not everyone is using it as a common place name or decided their preference, due to their lack of personal need to. but as bitcoin continues to develop and coins begin to spread amongst more adopters the need for a small measure name will increase.

but one thing is for sure, seeing a faucet advertised as "giving free bitcoins" yet the reality being dust(random decimal) amounts is bad and i would have to say in that scenario it would be advantageous to use a term to describe smaller measure would benefit the OP now

i use the term dust(random decimal) or sats(precise decimal) if the amount is not exactly in increments of 0.00000100. just like people dont say that $0.56 is 11 nickels and 1 cent. or 5 dimes and 6 cent, they simply say 56cents.

so there is still a need for "satoshi's" but a name for 100 sats is also needed. and i think for long term understanding and future-proofing peoples comfort zones a bottom up (satoshi -> bitcoin) is easier to manage rather than a top down (bitcoin -> satoshi) as no one wants to be saying "Point Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh One Oh Oh Bee Tee Cee" as it sounds more like something you would say in bed, not a shop

so satoshi's, bits/finneys, other measures can all work happily together. alot better that the 'oh oh oh oh' orgasm screams, that people find harder to measure with so many zero's

I agree with most of your posting. Except I don't understand the red part.

Would you care to elaborate: Do we really need a special name for 100 satoshis, instead of just calling it... "100 satoshis"?

We really do not need a special name. Having too many names for various units of measure for bitcoin will only confuse people and will likely slow adoption and slow down the time it takes for someone to pay from the time they are presented with a price to when a TX is sent as people will spend additional time calculating how much to send.

Remember that with dollars, there are only two units of measure, dollars and cents

[Waramp22]

We really do not need a special name. Having too many names for various units of measure for bitcoin will only confuse people and will likely slow adoption and slow down the time it takes for someone to pay from the time they are presented with a price to when a TX is sent as people will spend additional time calculating how much to send.

Remember that with dollars, there are only two units of measure, dollars and cents

I agree that we only need 2 units of measure, but in this case the decimal is placed 6 spots too far to the left.

a Big Mac meal costs about $7
At $325 per bitcoin that big mac meal costs .02153846 bitcoin.
Someday in the future, at $3250 per bitcoin it will cost .00215384
Our children might be paying .00021538

The more its worth, the less sense the curent system is going to make. We need to move the decimal.

[rgenito]

There's no reason you cannot say, "that will be 2 bits and 53 cents". After all, "cent" refers to 100s and is in the common english vernacular.

And R2D221 I understand your point, and I completely agree. We could simply call it something else. Then the question is, does a unit of "mike" have a contextual reference in the world of "bitcoin"?

Per diction, these are my *personal* suggestions:

0.00000001 BTC = "1 bitcent", or even "1 satoshi" because the name is already established. Similar to how $0.01 is both referred to as "1 cent" or even "1 penny".

0.000000100 BTC = 1 bit = "1 bit"

1.00000000 BTC = "1 Bitcoin", or "1 coin", or "holy crap, an ENTIRE (bit)coin???"

And i'll agree once again, whether the name is "bits" or "mikes" or "r2d2's", whatever name it is should be related to, and contextually understood as being related to, bitcoin as the BTC (or XBT) currency.

[Superhitech]

If I was advertising to people who are new to Bitcoin I would say 100 satoshis because it sounds like a lot.

[LMGTFY]

Thanks for your comments!

Your customers will have a far better idea than me or you. I'd suggest providing a mechanism for them to choose what they're comfortable with - just like eCommerce sites offering users a choice of currency - and use a sensible default (either BTC or - probably better for small amounts - Satoshi).

Yes, in general, this would be the best idea.

However, my users won't sign-up: I want to remove this entry barrier.

Sensible minimising barriers - but there's no reason why they'd need to sign up in order to pick a system! Their choice could persist beyond the initial session by cookies, for example. (To be honest I assumed you'd want them getting to "their currency" as quickly as possible, and even in a classic eCommerce system signing in is usually seen as being a near-final step).

Instead, I intend to integrate with microwallet.org, such that users' payouts are sent to microwallet, where they can accumulate.

No sign-up means that I'll have to find one choice that's accepted by everyone.

Well, if you really are stuck with one system (and I don't think you are) then you should probably go with the  system Microwallet.org uses (Satoshis, IIRC?) - the principle of least surprise.

[KingOfTrolls]

Would you care to elaborate: Do we really need a special name for 100 satoshis, instead of just calling it... "100 satoshis"?

It is because people are familiar with having a unit of currency that can be used for everyday purchases, but in some cases broken down even farther to be precise. $1 = 100 cents.

In the future bitcoin will be worth so much, ...

Okay, if we go to the moon, let's suppose the exchange rate is one million dollar per bitcoin.

...that we will be buying items in stores with fractions of a bitcoin. .001 - .000001 range.  Imagine buying a new computer chair tomorrow and being asked for 20999 cents? No, the chair is 210 dollars.

No, the chair is 21k satoshis. I don't see any problem with that. It rolls off my tongue perfectly.

We really do not need a special name. Having too many names for various units of measure for bitcoin will only confuse people and will likely slow adoption and slow down the time it takes for someone to pay from the time they are presented with a price to when a TX is sent as people will spend additional time calculating how much to send.

Remember that with dollars, there are only two units of measure, dollars and cents

I agree that we only need 2 units of measure, ...

We only need 1 unit of measure.

...but in this case the decimal is placed 6 spots too far to the left.

The decimal is placed 8 spots too far to the left.

a Big Mac meal costs about $7
At $325 per bitcoin that big mac meal costs .02153846 bitcoin.
Someday in the future, at $3250 per bitcoin it will cost .00215384
Our children might be paying .00021538

The more its worth, the less sense the curent system is going to make. We need to move the decimal.

Yes, we really need to move the decimal. But if we do it, we should do it wisely.

And if we move it 6 places, we could just as well move it 8 places, with the advantage that we already have a very well established name for 10^-8 bitcoins (i.e. "satoshi").

Your customers will have a far better idea than me or you. I'd suggest providing a mechanism for them to choose what they're comfortable with - just like eCommerce sites offering users a choice of currency - and use a sensible default (either BTC or - probably better for small amounts - Satoshi).

Yes, in general, this would be the best idea.

However, my users won't sign-up: I want to remove this entry barrier.

Sensible minimising barriers - but there's no reason why they'd need to sign up in order to pick a system! Their choice could persist beyond the initial session by cookies, for example. (To be honest I assumed you'd want them getting to "their currency" as quickly as possible, and even in a classic eCommerce system signing in is usually seen as being a near-final step).

You are right, cookies are an option, but that makes the default value more important (when the site is used from multiple devices/computers).

I just won't get around choosing a reasonable default.

Instead, I intend to integrate with microwallet.org, such that users' payouts are sent to microwallet, where they can accumulate.

No sign-up means that I'll have to find one choice that's accepted by everyone.

Well, if you really are stuck with one system (and I don't think you are) then you should probably go with the  system Microwallet.org uses (Satoshis, IIRC?) - the principle of least surprise.

I've already glanced through the competitors, and literally no one uses what microwallet uses.

The reason: Microwallet uses whole BTC and decimal numbers, which is basically a no-go as the payouts would appear too tiny.

[LMGTFY]

Well, if you really are stuck with one system (and I don't think you are) then you should probably go with the  system Microwallet.org uses (Satoshis, IIRC?) - the principle of least surprise.

I've already glanced through the competitors, and literally no one uses what microwallet uses.

The reason: Microwallet uses whole BTC and decimal numbers, which is basically a no-go as the payouts would appear too tiny.

You're quite right - been a while since I used Microwallet. CoinBox.me also uses BTC - I guess when I used them both I mentally converted to Satoshis (which is only OK as long as they use a fixed number of decimal places). I guess then I'd still say Satoshi on the grounds that your users should be able to convert in their head once they reach Microwallet. And that excellent tool-tip suggestion from another user? Maybe use - or at least include - the BTC value so your users see what they'll see once they reach Microwallet.

[KingOfTrolls]

Well, if you really are stuck with one system (and I don't think you are) then you should probably go with the  system Microwallet.org uses (Satoshis, IIRC?) - the principle of least surprise.

I've already glanced through the competitors, and literally no one uses what microwallet uses.

The reason: Microwallet uses whole BTC and decimal numbers, which is basically a no-go as the payouts would appear too tiny.

You're quite right - been a while since I used Microwallet. CoinBox.me also uses BTC - I guess when I used them both I mentally converted to Satoshis (which is only OK as long as they use a fixed number of decimal places). I guess then I'd still say Satoshi on the grounds that your users should be able to convert in their head once they reach Microwallet.

Yes, this is what I'll probably do.

And that excellent tool-tip suggestion from another user? Maybe use - or at least include - the BTC value so your users see what they'll see once they reach Microwallet.

I think I'll do a (BTC-denominated) tool-tip for desktop and laptop, and/or a footnote for tablet and smartphone (I want to serve to both).


BTW: Thanks, this community is great - one can come here and ask and get excellent advise... for free!

[Waramp22]

I agree that we only need 2 units of measure, ...

We only need 1 unit of measure.

So now you want to get rid of bitcoin as well. What do you think would happen if you asked the general public to drop the dollars and only use cents?  

We need 2 units, only the bitcoin will not be one of them. A "bitcoin" will be so huge that only the wealthy will own them. It will be somewhat of a status symbol, kind of like being a "millionarie" in todays world. It will be more of a term to describe the protocol.


For the general public we need 2 units:

Bits/Mikes/Fins whichever we agree upon. This will be .000001 unit.
and Satoshis. 100 of which will fit into the above unit.

This is a sensible way to rollout bitcoin to the general public. As soon as you tell them that a bottle of coke costs 45 bits plus a handful of satoshis for tax, the 2 unit setup rings a bell as something familiar. If we tell them that bitcoin doesnt have a "cent" unit at all they will compare it to places like Zimbabwe that suffer from hyper inflation.

[Aditya]

One yu-bit (µBTC)

[h4xx0r]

I'd like to coin Centoshi for 100 Satoshi. 

winner winner, chicken dinner! i love it

[Waramp22]

I'd like to coin Centoshi for 100 Satoshi.  

winner winner, chicken dinner! i love it

Its good, but i think Centoshi will be easily confused with Satoshi because it sounds so similar.

Maybe if you had a Toshi and a Centoshi....

[philiveyjr]

Ive always called it micro bit.!! no clue about others..!

[LMGTFY]

I agree that we only need 2 units of measure, ...

We only need 1 unit of measure.

So now you want to get rid of bitcoin as well. What do you think would happen if you asked the general public to drop the dollars and only use cents?  

We need 2 units, only the bitcoin will not be one of them. A "bitcoin" will be so huge that only the wealthy will own them. It will be somewhat of a status symbol, kind of like being a "millionarie" in todays world. It will be more of a term to describe the protocol.


For the general public we need 2 units:

Bits/Mikes/Fins whichever we agree upon. This will be .000001 unit.
and Satoshis. 100 of which will fit into the above unit.

This is a sensible way to rollout bitcoin to the general public. As soon as you tell them that a bottle of coke costs 45 bits plus a handful of satoshis for tax, the 2 unit setup rings a bell as something familiar. If we tell them that bitcoin doesnt have a "cent" unit at all they will compare it to places like Zimbabwe that suffer from hyper inflation.

But this isn't for the general public - it's for the users of one website. And there are plenty of sites that already use Satoshi exclusively. The OP has no power to abolish BTC/"bitcoin", and I'm quite certain has no desire either.

[SpyPacked]

I can't vote 

But my choice would be 100 satoshis. I just think it's easier to remember (for me at least) how much of a Bitcoin it is.