..

[Hyena]

Dramatic zoom... made me lol

Being angry and bitter because you didn't get rich overnight with your 1 BTC investment.

get rich overnight with your 1 BTC investment.

1 BTC investment.

1 BTC

Even at its ATH 1 BTC wasn't much of an investment but rather toying around with pocket money.

[sgbett]

True, but all goods, services, your wage and taxes are priced in fiat,
if you don't express btc in fiat you don't even know what your purchasing power is.
What is the purchasing power of 1 btc? Oh right, you need fiat number even to comprehend the meaning of 1 btc.

Your analogies are trivial and unrelated to my point in lame attempt to somehow justify the bitcoin.

This is because for now fiat is more important. But things change.
The difference is that if poeple really wanted fiat in the first place bitcoin would not exist.
So what you want is purchasing power and means to keep it or transfer it.
Now we use fiat to price things, we will see how long that will hold.

What you guys fail to understand bitcoin is not a currency itself, it is just a tool for transacting currency. When you send someone 1 btc, or when you buy something  with bitcoin, what you're doing is you're sending him 320 dollars via bitcoin, you're sending him purchasing power of dollar.
Bitcoin is not independent of fiat.  Actually, fiat is what gives bitcoin a value.

That is correct, however BTC is also priced in GPB, EUR etc

You can argue that as the global currency everything is priced in USD. So GBP only buys you stuff because it has a dollar exchange rate. Its tenuous, but this is *your* logic...

Now the man in the street in the UK does not care about the USD value of his GBP. He just uses GBP.

Interestingly, if that same man travels to the USA, or to Europe. They convert their native currency to the local currency, so as they may transact, but in their head they typically do a quick reckoning whenever they see a local price to convert it to their native price so that they may get an intuitive understanding of what the local price actually means to them.

So the act of converting between one abstract currency to another is inherent. Now imagine the man in the street isn't on holiday, but has moved to the USA. How long before he starts thinking in dollars?

All of this demonstrates quite adequately that whilst your point that BTC has a dollar value is correct. What it also proves, which you won't like at all, is that if you consider the internet a "country" and BTC as its native currency (which is exactly what it is - read the white paper) then you have a situation where an economy will develop. That nascent economy has developed, whether you like it or not. You can argue from the rooftops that it is going to fail, but you cannot deny its existence.

The more you shout and the more the bitcoin economy develops, the more crazy you sound.

[Hyena]

The more you shout and the more the bitcoin economy develops, the more crazy you sound.

Same goes to the journalists. I'm already seeing a stupidly repeating pattern of "big news" on every price swing as it happened the first time EVER! I wonder how long it takes until those journalists start to feel DeJaVu when writing yet another news with a headline "Bitcoin price plummets after..." if it's not a news it just makes the journalist look dumb.

[NotLambchop]

...
Interestingly, if that same man travels to the USA, or to Europe. They convert their native currency to the local currency, so as they may transact, but in their head they typically do a quick reckoning whenever they see a local price to convert it to their native price so that they may get an intuitive understanding of what the local price actually means to them.

So the act of converting between one abstract currency to another is inherent. Now imagine the man in the street isn't on holiday, but has moved to the USA. How long before he starts thinking in dollars?
...
if you consider the internet a "country" and BTC as its native currency ....

Interestingly, none of that's true. neither is interneta country nor is BTC its native currency.
Internet merchants price their wares in real money, including those allowing the option of paying with BTC.
Those prices are in constant flux, adjusted to BTC's dollar exchange rate at the moment of purchase.

So you still have to "do a quick reckoning" when buying with BTC.

[sgbett]

...
Interestingly, if that same man travels to the USA, or to Europe. They convert their native currency to the local currency, so as they may transact, but in their head they typically do a quick reckoning whenever they see a local price to convert it to their native price so that they may get an intuitive understanding of what the local price actually means to them.

So the act of converting between one abstract currency to another is inherent. Now imagine the man in the street isn't on holiday, but has moved to the USA. How long before he starts thinking in dollars?
...
if you consider the internet a "country" and BTC as its native currency ....

Interestingly, none of that's true. neither is interneta country nor is BTC its native currency.
Internet merchants price their wares in real money, including those allowing the option of paying with BTC.
Those prices are in constant flux, adjusted to BTC's dollar exchange rate at the moment of purchase.

So you still have to "do a quick reckoning" when buying with BTC.

"So it is now, so it will always be." seems to be your basic argument then?

I'm just as aware of the current situation as you are, but sometimes here on the speculation board, people speculate about the future!

tl;dr needs moar ponehs

[NotLambchop]

^
If you still don't get the ponies, I'll spell it out for you:
The reason I go heavy on pone pr0nz here is Bitcoin preachers and bronies have so much in common.  You both dream of candy-colored, infinitely hospitable worlds where logic and common sense count for shit.  Both seem... at best infantile, and, at times, repulsive, to us filthy casuals

So now you know.

*Oh, almost forgot your Pony~ request.  Here.

[piramida]

You both dream of candy-colored, infinitely hospitable worlds where logic and common sense count for shit.

Hey that is exactly the world I live in *now* and I hate every moment! I dream about a much better one Bitcoin won't make it happen unfortunately, just look around - we need something much more serious to return to normal.

[sgbett]

^
If you still don't get the ponies, I'll spell it out for you:
The reason I go heavy on pone pr0nz here is Bitcoin preachers and bronies have so much in common.  You both dream of candy-colored, infinitely hospitable worlds where logic and common sense count for shit.  Both seem... at best infantile, and, at times, repulsive, to us filthy casuals

So now you know.

*Oh, almost forgot your Pony~ request.  Here.

I suggest a possible future where bitcoin is used as internet cash and you find this somehow abhorrent!?

>Emotional.
>Flinging insults.
>Caplock.

I'd say you're a touch overinvested

2/3 not bad!

[NotLambchop]

^
You do appear infantile and, at times, repulsive to us mundanes.
That's simply a fact--neither emotional nor [intentionally] insulting.

[NotLambchop]

You both dream of candy-colored, infinitely hospitable worlds where logic and common sense count for shit.

Hey that is exactly the world I live in *now* and I hate every moment! I dream about a much better one Bitcoin won't make it happen unfortunately, just look around - we need something much more serious to return to normal.

Perhaps it's you, and not reality, that's at fault?
*But I agree, Bitcoin is not the tinders of teh next revolution.

[mmitech]

I come back to these forums every few months just to look.

Always the same angry losers that lost money due to their own incompetence and impatience.

..and the same paid troll outsourcers in Pakistan and India spamming their nonsense.

I'm sorry, MatTheCat and others like him. But if you buy into ANYTHING anticipating a 1000% return and didn't consider that you could potentially lose 50% or more over the short term, I don't know what to tell you. You have no business investing at all. You might as well be in a casino. Casinos exist for people like you.

Apparently I'm a "bulltard", "cultist" and "bagholder". I'll keep doing what I do, which is to acquire as many BTC as possible through arbitrage and Bitcoin related businesses.

You guys keep doing what you do: Being angry and bitter because you didn't get rich overnight with your 1 BTC investment.

I'll be back in a few months. Enjoy the ride, everyone.

You got it wrong, this market IS the casino, if you think bitcoin is investing, you're delusional. And you have your priorities all mixed up, the goal is to acquire the most fiat possible, not btc.
Would you rather have 10 000 btc worth $5, or 5 btc worth $10 000?

you do not want fiat you want purchasing power.
Would you rather have 5$ in fiat or btc in a world where a house cost 5$
or 10000 $ in fiat or btc in a world where a house cost 20 000$?
this market is the casino as much as anything else, even wages... you just change the odds and possible outcome.

True, but all goods, services, your wage and taxes are priced in fiat,
if you don't express btc in fiat you don't even know what your purchasing power is.
What is the purchasing power of 1 btc? Oh right, you need fiat number even to comprehend the meaning of 1 btc.

Your analogies are trivial and unrelated to my point in lame attempt to somehow justify the bitcoin.

Yeah but nobody has a car/tv/telephone/computer...

I really never understand you replies !!!

[sgbett]

I come back to these forums every few months just to look.

Always the same angry losers that lost money due to their own incompetence and impatience.

..and the same paid troll outsourcers in Pakistan and India spamming their nonsense.

I'm sorry, MatTheCat and others like him. But if you buy into ANYTHING anticipating a 1000% return and didn't consider that you could potentially lose 50% or more over the short term, I don't know what to tell you. You have no business investing at all. You might as well be in a casino. Casinos exist for people like you.

Apparently I'm a "bulltard", "cultist" and "bagholder". I'll keep doing what I do, which is to acquire as many BTC as possible through arbitrage and Bitcoin related businesses.

You guys keep doing what you do: Being angry and bitter because you didn't get rich overnight with your 1 BTC investment.

I'll be back in a few months. Enjoy the ride, everyone.

You got it wrong, this market IS the casino, if you think bitcoin is investing, you're delusional. And you have your priorities all mixed up, the goal is to acquire the most fiat possible, not btc.
Would you rather have 10 000 btc worth $5, or 5 btc worth $10 000?

you do not want fiat you want purchasing power.
Would you rather have 5$ in fiat or btc in a world where a house cost 5$
or 10000 $ in fiat or btc in a world where a house cost 20 000$?
this market is the casino as much as anything else, even wages... you just change the odds and possible outcome.

True, but all goods, services, your wage and taxes are priced in fiat,
if you don't express btc in fiat you don't even know what your purchasing power is.
What is the purchasing power of 1 btc? Oh right, you need fiat number even to comprehend the meaning of 1 btc.

Your analogies are trivial and unrelated to my point in lame attempt to somehow justify the bitcoin.

Yeah but nobody has a car/tv/telephone/computer...

I really never understand you replies !!!

at various points in history, all of the above were once true.

"Nobody" wanting BTC right now does not mean nobody ever will.
Goods being priced in dollars now does not mean they always will be.

All bear posts state only one possible outcome, instead of accepting that the future is uncertain. My position in BTC absolutely re-enforces the fact that I don't assume its going to the moon, it assumes failure and insures me *just in case* it goes to the moon.

[glub0x]

...
The difference is that if poeple really wanted fiat in the first place bitcoin would not exist.
...

And if people wanted Bitcoin, altcoins would not exist.

That is true.
Now it seems that not enough poeple are intrested in altcoin rather than bitcoin as there marketcap is a drop in the ocean. (yet?)
Satoshi was quite pissed about the way usd worked. It seems to me that if he was happy with it, bitcoin would not exist.
Also most of the people supporting bitcoin mainly at early stages looked to me like usd haters.


I know in which currency i price my bread. I already changed this one time.
I can change again.
This is just words, a unit of account. I am ready to change for btc, the world isn't...yet.
Maybe it won't happen this is true, maybe bitcoin will succeed in other ways, i'm open to that aswell... maybe it will fail it is all priced in.
Now saying that things are priced in fiat so you want fiat is just very silly to me. If so we would still use whatever was the first currency (bones?)...

[Rat_Poison]

I come back to these forums every few months just to look.

Always the same angry losers that lost money due to their own incompetence and impatience.

..and the same paid troll outsourcers in Pakistan and India spamming their nonsense.

I'm sorry, MatTheCat and others like him. But if you buy into ANYTHING anticipating a 1000% return and didn't consider that you could potentially lose 50% or more over the short term, I don't know what to tell you. You have no business investing at all. You might as well be in a casino. Casinos exist for people like you.

Apparently I'm a "bulltard", "cultist" and "bagholder". I'll keep doing what I do, which is to acquire as many BTC as possible through arbitrage and Bitcoin related businesses.

You guys keep doing what you do: Being angry and bitter because you didn't get rich overnight with your 1 BTC investment.

I'll be back in a few months. Enjoy the ride, everyone.

You got it wrong, this market IS the casino, if you think bitcoin is investing, you're delusional. And you have your priorities all mixed up, the goal is to acquire the most fiat possible, not btc.
Would you rather have 10 000 btc worth $5, or 5 btc worth $10 000?

you do not want fiat you want purchasing power.
Would you rather have 5$ in fiat or btc in a world where a house cost 5$
or 10000 $ in fiat or btc in a world where a house cost 20 000$?
this market is the casino as much as anything else, even wages... you just change the odds and possible outcome.

True, but all goods, services, your wage and taxes are priced in fiat,
if you don't express btc in fiat you don't even know what your purchasing power is.
What is the purchasing power of 1 btc? Oh right, you need fiat number even to comprehend the meaning of 1 btc.

Your analogies are trivial and unrelated to my point in lame attempt to somehow justify the bitcoin.

Yeah but nobody has a car/tv/telephone/computer...

I really never understand you replies !!!

at various points in history, all of the above were once true.

"Nobody" wanting BTC right now does not mean nobody ever will.
Goods being priced in dollars now does not mean they always will be.

All bear posts state only one possible outcome, instead of accepting that the future is uncertain. My position in BTC absolutely re-enforces the fact that I don't assume its going to the moon, it assumes failure and insures me *just in case* it goes to the moon.

Classic bagholder fallacy.

Invention A was wild success, therefore, Invention B will also be wild success!

All the inventions you referenced added utility and enriched people's lives to a great extent. Bitcoin doesn't provide any utility for hardly anyone, which is why nobody aside from the fanatics are buying it, and they're only buying in the hopes of becoming rich quick.

[sgbett]

^
You do appear infantile and, at times, repulsive to us mundanes.
That's simply a fact--neither emotional nor [intentionally] insulting.

Except for it not being a fact, its an opinion. Confusing fact and opinion explains a lot about how you reason.

Here is a fact: You post pony pics.
Here is an opinion: BTC might fail.

Saying BTC *will* fail shows a lack of basic understanding about the uncertain nature of the future. You aren't prescient, and if BTC "fails" it won't make you so retrospectively.

[sgbett]

I come back to these forums every few months just to look.

Always the same angry losers that lost money due to their own incompetence and impatience.

..and the same paid troll outsourcers in Pakistan and India spamming their nonsense.

I'm sorry, MatTheCat and others like him. But if you buy into ANYTHING anticipating a 1000% return and didn't consider that you could potentially lose 50% or more over the short term, I don't know what to tell you. You have no business investing at all. You might as well be in a casino. Casinos exist for people like you.

Apparently I'm a "bulltard", "cultist" and "bagholder". I'll keep doing what I do, which is to acquire as many BTC as possible through arbitrage and Bitcoin related businesses.

You guys keep doing what you do: Being angry and bitter because you didn't get rich overnight with your 1 BTC investment.

I'll be back in a few months. Enjoy the ride, everyone.

You got it wrong, this market IS the casino, if you think bitcoin is investing, you're delusional. And you have your priorities all mixed up, the goal is to acquire the most fiat possible, not btc.
Would you rather have 10 000 btc worth $5, or 5 btc worth $10 000?

you do not want fiat you want purchasing power.
Would you rather have 5$ in fiat or btc in a world where a house cost 5$
or 10000 $ in fiat or btc in a world where a house cost 20 000$?
this market is the casino as much as anything else, even wages... you just change the odds and possible outcome.

True, but all goods, services, your wage and taxes are priced in fiat,
if you don't express btc in fiat you don't even know what your purchasing power is.
What is the purchasing power of 1 btc? Oh right, you need fiat number even to comprehend the meaning of 1 btc.

Your analogies are trivial and unrelated to my point in lame attempt to somehow justify the bitcoin.

Yeah but nobody has a car/tv/telephone/computer...

I really never understand you replies !!!

at various points in history, all of the above were once true.

"Nobody" wanting BTC right now does not mean nobody ever will.
Goods being priced in dollars now does not mean they always will be.

All bear posts state only one possible outcome, instead of accepting that the future is uncertain. My position in BTC absolutely re-enforces the fact that I don't assume its going to the moon, it assumes failure and insures me *just in case* it goes to the moon.

something sgbett didn't say

refutation of the thing sgbett didn't say.

I did not say bitcoin *will* do anything. I said that you cannot categorically say it will not.

[mmitech]

at various points in history, all of the above were once true.

"Nobody" wanting BTC right now does not mean nobody ever will.
Goods being priced in dollars now does not mean they always will be.

All bear posts state only one possible outcome, instead of accepting that the future is uncertain. My position in BTC absolutely re-enforces the fact that I don't assume its going to the moon, it assumes failure and insures me *just in case* it goes to the moon.

OK now I understand what you meant with the car/tv/telephone/computer.... the difference is that these things didn't exist, we were introduced to new things that has really changed the way we do thing, but bitcoin was introduced to replace something that we already have ( maybe broken)...well I agree that Bitcoin is more than a currency, but people already rely on their official currency, and currently Bitcoin is used mostly as an asset and is way far from being a currency, even if it would be used as a currency I don't see it dominating the world, because usually changing a currency require way more than mathematics and hashpower.


Take the Euro as an example, countries went from their currency to euro over night but preparation took years to enforce, and even after that, people took years to get use to it and kept converting value of things to their old currency, now when we say the world currency...just imagine that, one thing that I know for sure: "people agreed to not agree" .

[NotLambchop]

...
I know in which currency i price my bread. I already changed this one time.
...
Now saying that things are priced in fiat so you want fiat is just very silly to me. If so we would still use whatever was the first currency (bones?)...

If we still used bones for buying bread, I would certainly want bones.  Because without those bones, I'd starve.

Fiat came a long way from the days of cowry shells, and developed a support industry far more advanced and convenient than BTC.
But even allowing that BTC is a superior system:
Esperanto was created to be a perfect international language, and, arguably, it is.  Over a century after its invention, just 100,000 to 2,000,000 people speak it today (according to wikip).
And no nation has ever outlawed Esperanto, and no sinister cabals worked toward its demise...

[NotLambchop]

^
You do appear infantile and, at times, repulsive to us mundanes.
That's simply a fact--neither emotional nor [intentionally] insulting.

Except for it not being a fact, its an opinion. Confusing fact and opinion explains a lot about how you reason.

Here is a fact: You post pony pics.
Here is an opinion: BTC might fail.

Saying BTC *will* fail shows a lack of basic understanding about the uncertain nature of the future. You aren't prescient, and if BTC "fails" it won't make you so retrospectively.

I have never suggested that Bitcoin will fail.
I, being a mundane and a filthy casual, find you infantile and, occasionally, repulsive.  That alone is sufficient to make my claim factual.
You show a lack of reading comprehension and inability to logic that clearly requires some remedial schooling.
It's never to late to start learning, sgbett.
Excelsior!
 

[raid_n]

... I don't see it dominating the world, because usually changing a currency require way more than mathematics and hashpower.

You should start thinking about bitcoin from a programmer's/developer's perspective.
The openness of bitcoin lets me integrate it into whatever I want to.
It won't be governments driving adoption, it will be software and services using it.