The "you cant kill Bitcoin argument"

[mmitech]

I was having an argument in the speculation sub-forum when someone said "the only way to stop Bitcoin would be to ban the entire internet"... see I often hear that, but being in IT as a profession that statement give me a real hard time, so I thought it is time to discuss it, maybe there is something I am not aware off !!

So if Bitcoin becomes a real threat to governments, and if they agree on banning it and killing it, one way to go would be just changing regulation (FCC) for internet service providers and force them to ban the port that Bitcoin uses (8333 now), this would mean certain death to Bitcoin.


I want to hear your opinion, and how do you think this could be prevented ?

[Meuh6879]

Tor is already implemented in bitcoin core.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Running_Bitcoin

(-onion command line)

[Robert Paulson]

I was having an argument in the speculation sub-forum when someone said "the only way to stop Bitcoin would be to ban the entire internet"... see I often hear that, but being in IT as a profession that statement give me a real hard time, so I thought it is time to discuss it, maybe there is something I am not aware off !!

So if Bitcoin becomes a real threat to governments, and if they agree on banning it and killing it, one way to go would be just changing regulation (FCC) for internet service providers and force them to ban the port that Bitcoin uses (8332 now), this would mean certain death to Bitcoin.


I want to hear your opinion, and how do you think this could be prevented ?

change the port to 80, use SSL.
now bitcoin is indistinguishable from any SSL website, good luck banning it.

[shorena]

I was having an argument in the speculation sub-forum when someone said "the only way to stop Bitcoin would be to ban the entire internet"... see I often hear that, but being in IT as a profession that statement give me a real hard time, so I thought it is time to discuss it, maybe there is something I am not aware off !!

So if Bitcoin becomes a real threat to governments, and if they agree on banning it and killing it, one way to go would be just changing regulation (FCC) for internet service providers and force them to ban the port that Bitcoin uses (8332 now), this would mean certain death to Bitcoin.


I want to hear your opinion, and how do you think this could be prevented ?

change the port to 80, use SSL.
now bitcoin is indistinguishable from any SSL website, good luck banning it.

This, or use Tor. What we today understand as the Internet will have to cease existing in order to stop any specific service or protcoll. Youd have to ban encrypted data in general in order to be able to inspect and filter every package. Thats what certain corporate networks do along with restricted hard- and software.

[mmitech]

Tor is already implemented in bitcoin core.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Running_Bitcoin

(-onion command line)

but even if you use a proxy, we are talking about blocking it at ISP level.

[mmitech]

I was having an argument in the speculation sub-forum when someone said "the only way to stop Bitcoin would be to ban the entire internet"... see I often hear that, but being in IT as a profession that statement give me a real hard time, so I thought it is time to discuss it, maybe there is something I am not aware off !!

So if Bitcoin becomes a real threat to governments, and if they agree on banning it and killing it, one way to go would be just changing regulation (FCC) for internet service providers and force them to ban the port that Bitcoin uses (8332 now), this would mean certain death to Bitcoin.


I want to hear your opinion, and how do you think this could be prevented ?

change the port to 80, use SSL.
now bitcoin is indistinguishable from any SSL website, good luck banning it.

yes, changing to port 80 would solve this, but this also means that Bitcoin and a webserver cant run at the same server.

[mmitech]

I was having an argument in the speculation sub-forum when someone said "the only way to stop Bitcoin would be to ban the entire internet"... see I often hear that, but being in IT as a profession that statement give me a real hard time, so I thought it is time to discuss it, maybe there is something I am not aware off !!

So if Bitcoin becomes a real threat to governments, and if they agree on banning it and killing it, one way to go would be just changing regulation (FCC) for internet service providers and force them to ban the port that Bitcoin uses (8332 now), this would mean certain death to Bitcoin.


I want to hear your opinion, and how do you think this could be prevented ?

change the port to 80, use SSL.
now bitcoin is indistinguishable from any SSL website, good luck banning it.

This, or use Tor. What we today understand as the Internet will have to cease existing in order to stop any specific service or protcoll. Youd have to ban encrypted data in general in order to be able to inspect and filter every package. Thats what certain corporate networks do along with restricted hard- and software.

my understanding is: using Tor means connecting to a service that is blocked in your country through a node where that content is allowed, but if you block it on ISP level no one will be able to connect to that service (bitcoin).

[mmitech]

found the answer, this is not a threat, things have changed since version 7.0 even IPv6 is supported 

[shorena]

What does "block bitcoin at ISP level" mean? Bitcoin is not a single IP or Server an ISP can block and as long as me and the nodes I connect to use Tor the ISP might be able to detect the use of Tor (AFAIK not even that is possible) but has no ideawhat the traffic actually is. Could be recepies for cake, could be bitcoin, to the ISP its basically noise. Thats why I said youd have to dissallow encryption and thats not an Internet thats a corporate network with limited services.

[mmitech]

What does "block bitcoin at ISP level" mean? Bitcoin is not a single IP or Server an ISP can block and as long as me and the nodes I connect to use Tor the ISP might be able to detect the use of Tor (AFAIK not even that is possible) but has no ideawhat the traffic actually is. Could be recepies for cake, could be bitcoin, to the ISP its basically noise. Thats why I said youd have to dissallow encryption and thats not an Internet thats a corporate network with limited services.

block port I meant, i thought it only connect using 8333 but I was wrong.

[solex]

Firechat shows the power of mesh networks. The potential of mesh networking for Bitcoin message transmission has been mentioned before.

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/525921/the-latest-chat-app-for-iphone-needs-no-internet-connection/

[wumpus]

Although it makes things more difficult, you don't really need the P2P protocol. You can send block and transaction data over *any* medium. Some suggestions I've heard are to post them (at least the block headers + links) on forums, in pastebins, or host http servers that serve the data yourself. Other ways of transferring would be though faux-video streams in video chat services. Or given absence of the internet, even broadcasting the block chain through radio. Possibly using a satellite (see http://www.coindesk.com/jeff-garzik-announces-partnership-launch-bitcoin-satellites-space/). Or indeed, mesh networks.

Of course a client would have to be written that can collect the data this way, but it is no technical barrier.

I wouldn't say it is impossible to kill politically, i mean given global North-Korea levels of tyranny, like taking away all technology from the common people, could of course foil bitcoin pretty much. But if that happens we'll have other things to worry about than bitcoin.

[dillpicklechips]

In some ways as long as there are programmers who believe in bitcoin it will continue to evolve resisting any attacks that come. I really can't think of a scenario where bitcoin completely stops. Even if the price crashed to near zero and the difficulty was too high for amateur mining, a simple code fix and everything keeps going from where it left off.

[amaclin]

you cant kill Bitcoin

it will die itself, because the cost of supporting decentralized technology is too high comparing with the alternatives

[e4xit]

you cant kill Bitcoin

it will die itself, because the cost of supporting decentralized technology is too high comparing with the alternatives

Presuming that you are talking about the current financial system then that is just incorrect. Presuming that you are talking about some other cyptocurrency that nobody uses or supports, then, good luck with that line of thinking. There is no other (current) viable solution to the Byzantine generals problem, which is the primary reason that bitcoin (or any "cryptocurrency") has got anywhere. Without that, all other flavours of crypto are useless (unless build on top of bitcoin).

[amaclin]

Presuming that you are talking about the current financial system then that is just incorrect. Presuming that you are talking about some other cyptocurrency that nobody uses or supports, then, good luck with that line of thinking. There is no other (current) viable solution to the Byzantine generals problem, which is the primary reason that bitcoin (or any "cryptocurrency") has got anywhere. Without that, all other flavours of crypto are useless (unless build on top of bitcoin).

I am talking about decentralized vs centralized systems.
The cost for immutable transactions in any crypto-currencies is too high.
And we can not decrease it.
When the hashrate will stop growing it will be easy to collect old switched off asics, turn them on for an hour and gain 51%
Sorry. No way.

[dnydublin12]

I was having an argument in the speculation sub-forum when someone said "the only way to stop Bitcoin would be to ban the entire internet"... see I often hear that, but being in IT as a profession that statement give me a real hard time, so I thought it is time to discuss it, maybe there is something I am not aware off !!

So if Bitcoin becomes a real threat to governments, and if they agree on banning it and killing it, one way to go would be just changing regulation (FCC) for internet service providers and force them to ban the port that Bitcoin uses (8332 now), this would mean certain death to Bitcoin.


I want to hear your opinion, and how do you think this could be prevented ?

change the port to 80, use SSL.
now bitcoin is indistinguishable from any SSL website, good luck banning it.

SSL doesnt run on port 80.

http://stason.org/TULARC/security/ssl-talk/3-4-What-ports-does-SSL-use.html#.VDlkM_ldXKA

But less pedantically, if people wanted to ban it, it would be much easier. Ban the entry and exit points and ban the ownership/dealing of it. Not to say it would be completely eradicated but would be limited to niche uses and a currency to succeed needs widespread adoption.

I don't think it will be banned though, just evolved and more regulated than currently. In general cryptocurrency is a good thing and will succeed in the longer term I think, nothing to be feared.

[vancsj]

Presuming that you are talking about the current financial system then that is just incorrect. Presuming that you are talking about some other cyptocurrency that nobody uses or supports, then, good luck with that line of thinking. There is no other (current) viable solution to the Byzantine generals problem, which is the primary reason that bitcoin (or any "cryptocurrency") has got anywhere. Without that, all other flavours of crypto are useless (unless build on top of bitcoin).

I am talking about decentralized vs centralized systems.
The cost for immutable transactions in any crypto-currencies is too high.
And we can not decrease it.
When the hashrate will stop growing it will be easy to collect old switched off asics, turn them on for an hour and gain 51%
Sorry. No way.

You are assuming bitcoin running with high market cap && low velocity in circlation, then it's true, bitcoin costs too much. But consider the situation after velocity rising, things will be totally different.

When the hashrate stopped growing, there will not be old swiched off asics, ascics will be running until they are broken.

[vancsj]

People are always talking about governments kill bitcoin....come on, if bitcoin realized what it promoised, those governments who want to kill bitcoin will be voted out before they can do.

[vancsj]

BTW I don't think Bitcoin is undefeatable, you can always destroy it by 51% attack. And that's why I think it is amazing: you can choose.