Would this guy buy coins without a reason?

[leopard2]

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-price-finds-hard-floor-following-26000-btc-sell-order/

This OTC trader, Heinrich Vollmer, would not buy coins OTC at 8% over market, if he didnt have a reason.

I have always said this, large OTC deals don't hit the exchanges, but the exchanges serve as a manipulation stage. Naturally big investors like him will not use the exchanges for many reasons

Main reasons is that buy walls drive up prices (much more than the 8% premium in this case)

Heh heh, sell walls are doing a good job, fleecing the sheep, sorry. 

[BuildTheFuture]

That's gotta be a scammer, no reason to pay 8% above market.

[CMMPro]

It depends how much you are buying.

8% is only $30 above market....if you bought 10k coins in one shot do you think the market price would slip more than $30?

It sure would.

And by doing it this way the miner's have incentive to sell, and no one knows about the deal except the buyer and seller.

Also, I know many people aren't thinking about this but if they are virgin mined coins they may have a slightly higher intrinsic value than market coins that have a questionable provenance.

[leopard2]

well, all you need is check the orderbooks of common exchanges - I think a couple thousand coins will lead to an increase of more than 8%

the guy is smart, buying otc while the orderbooks get hammered with sell walls - and many others are probably doing the same, or even worse: pay guys like fallling for their agenda

not sure he is a scammer; I doubt Coindesk would advertise a scammer would they?

[piramida]

not sure he is a scammer; I doubt Coindesk would advertise a scammer would they?

Do you think they do due diligence on everyone who has a quote in an article? I seriously doubt it. This guy is a total scam = but do your own research before trading, of course.

[CryptoCarmen]

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-price-finds-hard-floor-following-26000-btc-sell-order/

This OTC trader, Heinrich Vollmer, would not buy coins OTC at 8% over market, if he didnt have a reason.

I have always said this, large OTC deals don't hit the exchanges, but the exchanges serve as a manipulation stage. Naturally big investors like him will not use the exchanges for many reasons

Main reasons is that buy walls drive up prices (much more than the 8% premium in this case)

Heh heh, sell walls are doing a good job, fleecing the sheep, sorry. 

8% in bitcoin is nothing. Price changes for much more daily.

[criptix]

Paying premium for OTC trades is a common thing. Just try to do it

[leopard2]

No don't 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=816102.msg9157393#msg9157393

[Raystonn]

Nice, Coindesk.  Once again another fine example why trustless is so important.  Not going to trust Coindesk again.

[Bulletin]

Who knows why is he doing this ?

[Jamacn]

I guess, he needs to store coins to prepare for the coming winter.

[piramida]

No don't 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=816102.msg9157393#msg9157393

The fact that newbies keep thinking he's for real even after that comment is why scams like this exist in the first place. People are stupid and lazy, and will easily fall for scammers who sound "serious".

[Eisenhower34]

not sure he is a scammer; I doubt Coindesk would advertise a scammer would they?

Do you think they do due diligence on everyone who has a quote in an article? I seriously doubt it. This guy is a total scam = but do your own research before trading, of course.

All that coindesk is doing is reporting an offer that someone has publicly given. They are not endorsing the person nor saying that he will not scam.

If he were to try to buy as much bitcoin as he is trying to buy on an exchange he would likely not see 8% slippage so it would make much more sense for him to simply buy on an exchange.

The only potential way this would not be a scam is if he is trying to buy up a lot of bitcoin  but also wants privacy. I do think he can buy up a lot of bitcoin while still having privacy without offing such a large markup, but he may want to buy his position sooner rather then later.

[CMMPro]

not sure he is a scammer; I doubt Coindesk would advertise a scammer would they?

Do you think they do due diligence on everyone who has a quote in an article? I seriously doubt it. This guy is a total scam = but do your own research before trading, of course.

All that coindesk is doing is reporting an offer that someone has publicly given. They are not endorsing the person nor saying that he will not scam.

If he were to try to buy as much bitcoin as he is trying to buy on an exchange he would likely not see 8% slippage so it would make much more sense for him to simply buy on an exchange.

The only potential way this would not be a scam is if he is trying to buy up a lot of bitcoin  but also wants privacy. I do think he can buy up a lot of bitcoin while still having privacy without offing such a large markup, but he may want to buy his position sooner rather then later.

According to the market depth at this very minute....a market buy of 2k bitcoins raises the price by 4.2%.

So much for your statement "buy on an exchange he would likely not see 8% slippage"...if it was a substantial amount of coins the slippage would far exceed his 8% premium price. (10k coins bought at market puts the price in the stratosphere.)

This is why it would be smarter in the long run for the exchanges to tell these guys to fuck off and  buy on the exchange.
It would dramatically raise the price making all of us much happier...including the miners.

But no...they keep undercutting each other and the market to make a quick buck instead of forcing them to market and making a killing...so be it, let them suffer for their stupidity.

[leopard2]

No don't  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=816102.msg9157393#msg9157393

The fact that newbies keep thinking he's for real even after that comment is why scams like this exist in the first place. People are stupid and lazy, and will easily fall for scammers who sound "serious".

I tend to disagree. If the Wallstreet Journal of Bitcoin aka Coindesk writes

"One of the largest OTC traders in the market right now is Heinrich Vollmer, a London-based trader who has been offering sellers of quantities of 10 BTC or more an 8% premium to the BitcoinAverage price throughout the past month. "

that is extremely problematic and borders on complicity. The article was written before the comments, and Coindesk has a 1000 times larger influence than personal comments in a forum.

[gragas]

wait what the fuck did I just read...

[uhoh]

"If it's too good to be true, then it probably is"

[maker88]

can someone explain how paying a premium for coins makes you a scammer? what is he scamming himself out of money? whats the big deal?

[uhoh]

can someone explain how paying a premium for coins makes you a scammer? what is he scamming himself out of money? whats the big deal?

Umm maybe because you'll send him the coins and he'll send you exactly zero dollars? The high percentage is bait to attract greedy and stupid people.

[leopard2]

The same Coindesk author who wrote that article, left a comment, saying that higher OTC prices are normal (which they probably are)

http://disqus.com/embed/comments/?base=default&disqus_version=7ba1eb42&f=coindesk&t_u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coindesk.com%2Fbitcoin-price-finds-hard-floor-following-26000-btc-sell-order%2F&t_d=Bitcoin%20Price%20Finds%20Hard%20Floor%20Following%2026%2C000%20BTC%20Sell%20Order&t_t=Bitcoin%20Price%20Finds%20Hard%20Floor%20Following%2026%2C000%20BTC%20Sell%20Order&s_o=default#

"Daniel M. Harrison • 6 days ago

Hi Alex (& Everyone) - a number of traders prefer to pay a slight premium to market for a block of a decent size, since acquiring massive volume at market price is very difficult to do without moving up the price. Also bear in mind that some miners now offer traders bitcoin on credit terms - these traders can make a profit by then using that bitcoin for arbitrage transactions with exchanges. If you have a deal whereby you are obligated to sell an exchange a certain minimum amount of bitcoin, on some days you fall short and have to pay the premium to keep the contract active. There are all sorts of reasons for purchasing above market (same as for selling below market), in other words. That said, dealing with exchanges is certainly the safest way to go, because verifying who's who in the OTC marketplace is very tricky: I think it's a valid comment you make about the importance for verification of counterparties and thank you for bringing it to my attention. I'll be sure to keep this in mind in future when discussing the various players in the marketplace! Thanks!"


It is idiotic to say that 8% over market makes someone a scammer. The problem is that Coindesk, based in London, never met the scammer (also based in London) for a personal interview, but endorsed him blindly.