crazy idea: use bitcoin to fund construction of a solar/wind/etc power plant

[BTCat]

Today you can buy anything with Bitcoin and it's the next craziest thing. But you can't buy Facebook with all btc in circulation.

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[lucky88888]

if your serious about this idea, there's money to be made!

Just crowd fund it through an asset exchange. But you gotta prove yourself before investors will fund you.
eg. nxt asset exchange, xcp asset exchange. (http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/)

[bornil267645]

well your idea is BIG both literally and figuratively. But that's the point, who knows, you could be one step away from the next big thing.

[arklan]

to be clear: i have zero expertise in anything related to this and very little general managerial experience. i've worked quality assurance in the game industry, have a basic level of skill with fiberglass and such, and right now am driving for Uber, as a glorified taxi.

this spawned from the 3 acres or so my in laws live on in north texas (45 minutes north of dallas) that they don't put to any use. i was thinking it'd be great to set up some solar to cover our own needs, then the thinking just kept growing. biggest problem we have is broadband internet... JUST a little out of range of cable company coverage. no DSL, even. i'm connected via a 3g cellular connection right now...

i'd love to be a part of something like this, even if limited in scale. there's rivers and lakes around me too. no idea on regulatory stuff. was just bouncing the idea.

small is certainly the way to go. test it out, then expand and such. if land on a river proves too costly, and toxic manufacturing is a concern, perhaps mirrors to boil water to turn a steam turbine? god knows it gets sunny as hell around here... still 90 degrees out today.

again, i'm just talking right now. thought the idea might get some interesting discussion. as for acting, that's down the line a wee bit.

[Newar]

I'm usually not that blunt, but this has been tried before and it went to shit:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77469.msg861305#msg861305

Basically you are betting that you will be offsetting your initial cost of installing the plant against electricity cost of your mining competitors. Thing is, the major farms are getting such low electricity as they buy in bulk, they are way ahead of you.

Basic example:

You: 100'000 for a smallish plant, completed in x weeks, months.

Your competition: With 100'000 they can get electricity for 230kW for about a year at 5 cents.
Your competition is mining _now_ whilst you need to build that plant.

Please crunch your numbers before attempting this. Include network difficulty and exchange rate numbers too.

Also, internet speed is not that important for mining. The stratum protocol uses little bandwith. Depending on distance and topography you also could use a wifi antenna to reach several kilometers.

[inBitweTrust]

I'm usually not that blunt, but this has been tried before and it went to shit:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77469.msg861305#msg861305

Basically you are betting that you will be offsetting your initial cost of installing the plant against electricity cost of your mining competitors. Thing is, the major farms are getting such low electricity as they buy in bulk, they are way ahead of you.

Basic example:

You: 100'000 for a smallish plant, completed in x weeks, months.

Your competition: With 100'000 they can get electricity for 230kW for about a year at 5 cents.
Your competition is mining _now_ whilst you need to build that plant.

Please crunch your numbers before attempting this. Include network difficulty and exchange rate numbers too.

Also, internet speed is not that important for mining. The stratum protocol uses little bandwidth. Depending on distance and topography you also could use a wifi antenna to reach several kilometers.

Hmmm... at those 5cent rates the breakeven for electricity alone would be around 5 years with micro hydro . The problem I see with Diablo mining company is they went solar which far slower of a payback than micro-hydro and more maintenance. The problem is micro hydro is that you either need a piece of land with a small river or spring and a 300 meter + drop in elevation (High velocity , low volume) or a 3-6 meter drop and large amounts of continuous water (Low velocity /high volume) so this limits the available locations.

    The thread indicates-" Between 158% and 183% of the original investment has been repaid." so i don't think it was a total failure of a project even with the big mistake of using solar.


There could be other motivations for this project -
1) Wanting to increase mining decentralization
2) Wanting to give opportunity for an average user to have a fairer distribution in earnings as a partner vs cloud mining
3) Wanting to provide green mining solutions to encourage others to follow suit and set a standard for bitcoin for years to come

This being said, if anyone wanted to put together this project you may as well try to at least accomplish these aspects:

1) Have a suitable location already where land wouldn't need to be purchased to lower costs until it is scaled up.
2) Design a system that reused the waste heat from all the asic miners in a productive means. I.E. heating water for homes, heating a warehouse, ect...
3) Absolutely do the math and determine the best return(which means solar is probably out unless you build a multi-million dollar solar tower)
4) If the land is single purpose use make sure it is being utilized for something else as well

[Newar]

[...]
    The thread indicates-" Between 158% and 183% of the original investment has been repaid." so i don't think it was a total failure of a project even with the big mistake of using solar.
[..]

Note that those are DiabloD3's (thread OP) comments. Diablo Mining Company has never built anything. Because of issues like "zero expertise in anything related to this and very little general managerial experience" for starters. Any "return" was thanks to the BTC rate rising from IPO time to close down time and measured in USD. People who just held the BTC instead of investing in DMC were a lot better off. Total failure is a good description of that venture.

But I agree, as an enthusiast's project with the land and hydro requirements (and some places you need the rights to use that water too) and not expecting any or very little return - sure why not.

I like this one: http://www.zotloeterer.com/welcome/ If I could, I would.

[inBitweTrust]

Note that those are DiabloD3's (thread OP) comments. Diablo Mining Company has never built anything. Because of issues like "zero expertise in anything related to this and very little general managerial experience" for starters. Any "return" was thanks to the BTC rate rising from IPO time to close down time and measured in USD. People who just held the BTC instead of investing in DMC were a lot better off. Total failure is a good description of that venture.

But I agree, as an enthusiast's project with the land and hydro requirements (and some places you need the rights to use that water too) and not expecting any or very little return - sure why not.

I like this one: http://www.zotloeterer.com/welcome/ If I could, I would.

Good points. Any such proposal should be comprehensive in nature to increase profits and differentiate yourself from the rest of the miners. Some people choose to pay more for green power sources. This would allow small profits to be realized while at the same time help the community and set a good example.

One should never expect anything but small profits on mining regardless, the market is too competitive.

Imagine the good press the community would receive and the myths that we would dispel from environmentalists or PoS /DPOs proponents who constantly smear PoW as being incredibly wasteful and bad for the environment.

A permaculture farm , with ASICS and everything powered by microhydro, that used the heat to dehydrate organic fruits, that are both sold and given away to charities to fight hunger which was owned and controlled by a co-opt decentraly. Now that would be awesome.

Please, someone steal these ideas and run with them .... I may do so myself on my land as I have most of those things already.

[serje]

I think a wind turbine will be the most efficient one if you can find a place where the wind blows all the time

near the coast or something like that


water turbine if you have a waterfall near you just go for it


more I don't know, I'm just thinking this would be great places where you will get a lot of energy

[inBitweTrust]

I like this one: http://www.zotloeterer.com/welcome/ If I could, I would.

Wow, I have seen 4 different categories of microhydro but this is a completely new one! Interesting product but a lack of prices and exclusive patents scare me ... their kit probably costs a fortune.

[iluvpie60]

to be clear: i have zero expertise in anything related to this and very little general managerial experience. i've worked quality assurance in the game industry, have a basic level of skill with fiberglass and such, and right now am driving for Uber, as a glorified taxi.

this spawned from the 3 acres or so my in laws live on in north texas (45 minutes north of dallas) that they don't put to any use. i was thinking it'd be great to set up some solar to cover our own needs, then the thinking just kept growing. biggest problem we have is broadband internet... JUST a little out of range of cable company coverage. no DSL, even. i'm connected via a 3g cellular connection right now...

i'd love to be a part of something like this, even if limited in scale. there's rivers and lakes around me too. no idea on regulatory stuff. was just bouncing the idea.

small is certainly the way to go. test it out, then expand and such. if land on a river proves too costly, and toxic manufacturing is a concern, perhaps mirrors to boil water to turn a steam turbine? god knows it gets sunny as hell around here... still 90 degrees out today.

again, i'm just talking right now. thought the idea might get some interesting discussion. as for acting, that's down the line a wee bit.

If you honestly have 3 acres of land you should look into planting rare trees. Some trees after grown for a few to 5 or 6 years are worth hundreds to thousands of dollars per tree. Depending on where you live that is infinitely more lucrative than hosting mining for someone(and a hell of a lot easier). Seriously, you can make some major bank. People do bamboo farming(labor intensive though) and they make 100k+ a year on a few acres, just by selling it because bamboo is used in furniture and other eating utensils more and more. A rare white oak or yew tree or whatever the hell is rare these days is seriously an easy way to make bank if it is unused property. only thing u gotta worry about is caging things off from deer who eat the things while they are small trees, but if u can protect everything for a year u are good. good luck.

[serje]

to be clear: i have zero expertise in anything related to this and very little general managerial experience. i've worked quality assurance in the game industry, have a basic level of skill with fiberglass and such, and right now am driving for Uber, as a glorified taxi.

this spawned from the 3 acres or so my in laws live on in north texas (45 minutes north of dallas) that they don't put to any use. i was thinking it'd be great to set up some solar to cover our own needs, then the thinking just kept growing. biggest problem we have is broadband internet... JUST a little out of range of cable company coverage. no DSL, even. i'm connected via a 3g cellular connection right now...

i'd love to be a part of something like this, even if limited in scale. there's rivers and lakes around me too. no idea on regulatory stuff. was just bouncing the idea.

small is certainly the way to go. test it out, then expand and such. if land on a river proves too costly, and toxic manufacturing is a concern, perhaps mirrors to boil water to turn a steam turbine? god knows it gets sunny as hell around here... still 90 degrees out today.

again, i'm just talking right now. thought the idea might get some interesting discussion. as for acting, that's down the line a wee bit.

If you honestly have 3 acres of land you should look into planting rare trees. Some trees after grown for a few to 5 or 6 years are worth hundreds to thousands of dollars per tree. Depending on where you live that is infinitely more lucrative than hosting mining for someone(and a hell of a lot easier). Seriously, you can make some major bank. People do bamboo farming(labor intensive though) and they make 100k+ a year on a few acres, just by selling it because bamboo is used in furniture and other eating utensils more and more. A rare white oak or yew tree or whatever the hell is rare these days is seriously an easy way to make bank if it is unused property. only thing u gotta worry about is caging things off from deer who eat the things while they are small trees, but if u can protect everything for a year u are good. good luck.

rather than trees you better plant truffles

i know i know ... many of you will say it's not possible to plant truffles ... well it is because you just have to buy the right trees that have the truffles at their roots ... wait a few years then sell the truffles

[Elwar]

Or just buy a power plant.

[BIGbangTheory]

This would not work in the way you intended. You appear to be trying to be figuring out a way to get "free" or reduced cost electricity. Any kind of setup that allows you to sell excess electricity back to the grid will not achieve this goal. Your cost of electricity that is used by your miners will be the amount you could get for the electricity by selling it back to the grid. The net effect would actually probably be that you have higher electric costs as you will have to pay for the solar panals

[inBitweTrust]

This would not work in the way you intended. You appear to be trying to be figuring out a way to get "free" or reduced cost electricity. Any kind of setup that allows you to sell excess electricity back to the grid will not achieve this goal. Your cost of electricity that is used by your miners will be the amount you could get for the electricity by selling it back to the grid. The net effect would actually probably be that you have higher electric costs as you will have to pay for the solar panals

Technically with microhydro you don't need to sell any back to the grid, but I agree in your premise if you are only considering solar or wind which has transient production times.

[Newar]

I like this one: http://www.zotloeterer.com/welcome/ If I could, I would.

Wow, I have seen 4 different categories of microhydro but this is a completely new one! Interesting product but a lack of prices and exclusive patents scare me ... their kit probably costs a fortune.

http://www.green-trust.org/wordpress/tag/hydro/

This particular unit (14′ diameter), with 5′ head of water and a .7 m³/s flow, can produce approximately 120 kWh daily. That’s enough power for 4 average US homes. At a kit cost of approximately $45k USD, that’s about a 7 year payback if maxed to capacity, and no subsidies are available. That does not include installation and concrete costs, or any permit fees.

[inBitweTrust]

This particular unit (14′ diameter), with 5′ head of water and a .7 m³/s flow, can produce approximately 120 kWh daily. That’s enough power for 4 average US homes. At a kit cost of approximately $45k USD, that’s about a 7 year payback if maxed to capacity, and no subsidies are available. That does not include installation and concrete costs, or any permit fees.

With a 160 meter head and 0.087 m3/s of volume you can generate 100 kWh with a ~3 k usd turgo turbine.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Pelton-water-turbine-generator/1836459433.html

So you may need this product for certain areas or applications , but it would be wiser to select an area which didn't necessitate it.

As you can see, there are many designs with a wide price range depending upon your environment.

[BJay87]

Or just buy a power plant.

You mean build a power plant.

[Newar]

This particular unit (14′ diameter), with 5′ head of water and a .7 m³/s flow, can produce approximately 120 kWh daily. That’s enough power for 4 average US homes. At a kit cost of approximately $45k USD, that’s about a 7 year payback if maxed to capacity, and no subsidies are available. That does not include installation and concrete costs, or any permit fees.

With a 160 meter head and 0.087 m3/s of volume you can generate 100 kWh with a ~3 k usd turgo turbine.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Pelton-water-turbine-generator/1836459433.html

So you may need this product for certain areas or applications , but it would be wiser to select an area which didn't necessitate it.

As you can see, there are many designs with a wide price range depending upon your environment.

I would think a location with 5 feet head is easier to find than a 160 meter head location. Flow requirements seem similar. I agree, every situation is different. Looks like the 3k is just the generator? In the 45k are several things included (see their site), basically all you have to do is build the basin.

[inBitweTrust]

I would think a location with 5 feet head is easier to find than a 160 meter head location. Flow requirements seem similar. I agree, every situation is different. Looks like the 3k is just the generator? In the 45k are several things included (see their site), basically all you have to do is build the basin.

Yes, 2 k for the generator. 3 k shipped.

The Z O T L Ö T E R E R GWVPP-kit consists of:

(1) Planning papers for getting the authorisation and for building the rotation tank.

(2) Single licence.

(3) Coarse screen, weir gate and inflow gate.

So the kit for 45k is basically the generator alone, some screen, and valves which the link I provided includes too.

The 3k is just the start of the costs, one has to add concrete, the piping , extra valves, installation, copper cabling , ect.... So it would more likely be 10k for everything.

The product you are suggesting would run at least 55k and is better for areas of little to no elevation and a tremendous amount of water. You would need 900gallons per second of water just to produce 40kwh with that unit!

 So if you had access to a large lake attached to a river than this may work. Otherwise high velocity , low volume is better.