..

[jonald_fyookball]

correct me if I'm wrong but wont the last block reward be a single satoshi? (plus fees)

[shorena]

correct me if I'm wrong but wont the last block reward be a single satoshi? (plus fees)

There. Is. No. Last. Block.

But to answer your question: Yes the last reward that is not from Fees will be 1 Satoshi.

[Bitcoin Magazine]

correct me if I'm wrong but wont the last block reward be a single satoshi? (plus fees)

There. Is. No. Last. Block.

But to answer your question: Yes the last reward that is not from Fees will be 1 Satoshi.

so by the time this happens, bitcoin will be a worthless currency and transaction fees will be enormous 

[jonald_fyookball]

correct me if I'm wrong but wont the last block reward be a single satoshi? (plus fees)

There. Is. No. Last. Block.

never said there was. 

[Beliathon]

Is there a possibility that LESS than 21 million coins will ever be mined?

Yes, all things are possible.

Probable?

Actually, yes, I think it is rather probable. Given our technology curve could very well create an abundance society which makes currency obsolete before 2140.

[fryarminer]

correct me if I'm wrong but wont the last block reward be a single satoshi? (plus fees)

There. Is. No. Last. Block.

But to answer your question: Yes the last reward that is not from Fees will be 1 Satoshi.

so by the time this happens, bitcoin will be a worthless currency and transaction fees will be enormous  

Hahaha!! That's one way of putting it.
Hopefully there will be more reward in fees than the lousy Satoshi of new BTC!

Reality is that there will be so many transactions that the transaction fees will far surpass the fresh BTC very early along. (As in within the next 50 years, my guess.)

[DannyHamilton]

Wow!

Just wow!

There is so much misinformation and misunderstanding and just plain incorrect statements in this thread, I don't even know where to start correcting them all.

Everyone who *thinks* they know how this works and has made a statment based on their belief needs to go get educated before they answer any more questions for anyone on this forum.  You are just spreading misinformation and confusion.

This includes:
Devin Chow
R2D221
lucky88888
shorena
jbreher
trader001
franky1
chenka563
Fioraver
sandykho47
fryarminer
Bitcoin Magazine

Some of you were just a little bit wrong.  Some of you seem to have made up entire protocols in your imagination and are now pretending like your imaginary protocol is Bitcoin.

[fryarminer]

I wonder how much the last Satoshi will be worth, and if it will be made into a coin as a collector's item? Maybe a great great grandkid of Mike Caldwell will make a famous coin!  

[fryarminer]

Wow!

Just wow!

There is so much misinformation and misunderstanding and just plain incorrect statements in this thread, I don't even know where to start correcting them all.

Everyone who *thinks* they know how this works and has made a statment based on their belief needs to go get educated before they answer any more questions for anyone on this forum.  You are just spreading misinformation and confusion.

This includes:
Devin Chow
R2D221
lucky88888
shorena
jbreher
trader001
franky1
chenka563
Fioraver
sandykho47
fryarminer
lightfoot
Bitcoin Magazine

Some of you were just a little bit wrong.  Some of you seem to have made up entire protocols in your imagination and are now pretending like your imaginary protocol is Bitcoin.

SWEET!! IM A RETARD!!

What did I say that was wrong?

[DannyHamilton]

correct me if I'm wrong but wont the last block reward be a single satoshi? (plus fees)

In general, the block reward is the total amount the miner receives.

It consists of the sum of block subsidy plus the sum of the transaction fees of all the transactions included in the block.

Therefore, there will be no last reward, unless bitcoin eventually dies, and in that case it is impossible to know how big the last reward will be.

I assume that you are actually asking about the last subsidy.

If that's what you meant to say, then you are not wrong.

As a matter of fact the last 210,000 block subsidies will all likely be 1 satoshi each.

[DannyHamilton]

What did I say that was wrong?

When you said this:

I wonder what size mining countries (as opposed to the mining farms we see today) and what expense will be seen - all to mine those last 4 years of satoshis!

"YES I MINED A SATOSHI!!!"

You implied that the only thing the miner would receive for solving a block would be a single satoshi.

The miner won't say: "Yes, I mined a satoshi!"

They'll say: "Yes, I mined lots of transaction fees!"

[QuestionAuthority]

Why the hell does anyone care what's going to happen in 2140? Are you a vampire planning your future retirement?

To me that's like watching your child being born and as the head pops out you try to figure out when the baby's grandchildren are going to die.

[fryarminer]

What did I say that was wrong?

When you said this:

I wonder what size mining countries (as opposed to the mining farms we see today) and what expense will be seen - all to mine those last 4 years of satoshis!

"YES I MINED A SATOSHI!!!"

You implied that the only thing the miner would receive for solving a block would be a single satoshi.

The miner won't say: "Yes, I mined a satoshi!"

They'll say: "Yes, I mined lots of transaction fees!"

Ok, yeah, I guess I wasn't concentrating on the transaction fees. But I can still say someone bragging about mining a Satoshi!

[DannyHamilton]

Ok, yeah, I guess I wasn't concentrating on the transaction fees.
- snip -

Like I said:

"Some of you were just a little bit wrong.  Some of you seem to have made up entire protocols in your imagination and are now pretending like your imaginary protocol is Bitcoin."

In your case: just a little bit wrong.

[Skoupi]

Why the hell does anyone care what's going to happen in 2140? Are you a vampire planning your future retirement?

There are many reasons. Country regulators for example care about what would happen after the last bitcoin has been mined.

[jbreher]

Hi Danny - I've learned a lot from your posts over the years. So much that I consider your statements semi-authoritative, pending evidence to the contrary.

There is so much misinformation and misunderstanding and just plain incorrect statements in this thread, I don't even know where to start correcting them all.

Everyone who *thinks* they know how this works and has made a statment based on their belief needs to go get educated before they answer any more questions for anyone on this forum.  You are just spreading misinformation and confusion.

This includes:
...
jbreher
...

I wonder if you might take the time to set me straight. I have made a couple of assertions in this thread. From a brief review, all I can detect that clashes with your statements is my use of the term 'reward' to indicate the coinbase reward, where you use the term 'subsidy' (you use the term 'reward' to refer to the sum of your 'subsidy' plus our shared understanding of 'transaction fees'):

between the last fraction of a coin reward, and the transaction fees, it should cover the energy costs

I thought my usage made the distinction clear, so it must be the term itself for which I am being called out? If so, where is the authoritative glossary of 'approved' bitcoin terms? If not, what other errors have I committed?

Thanks!

[QuestionAuthority]

Why the hell does anyone care what's going to happen in 2140? Are you a vampire planning your future retirement?

There are many reasons. Country regulators for example care about what would happen after the last bitcoin has been mined.

Ok, here's a likely outcome: Bitcoin is the way of the future and businesses take over development, perfect the PoW security system and house huge transaction servers to completely erase transaction delay.

Here's another one: WWIII happens 100 years from now and we are all thrown into the dark ages.

And another: The child is just becoming a toddler and an ogre kills it as it's taking its first baby steps.

I just don't think there is any use in looking at that right now. Anything the powers that be like Andreas say to regulators will be the letter of the currently written code (which is subject to change within the next 120 or so years). I still think the most likely outcome is that businesses around the world control transaction processing. It will probably be more decentralized than it is today.

[shorena]

Hi Danny - I've learned a lot from your posts over the years. So much that I consider your statements semi-authoritative, pending evidence to the contrary.

There is so much misinformation and misunderstanding and just plain incorrect statements in this thread, I don't even know where to start correcting them all.

Everyone who *thinks* they know how this works and has made a statment based on their belief needs to go get educated before they answer any more questions for anyone on this forum.  You are just spreading misinformation and confusion.

This includes:
...
jbreher
...

I wonder if you might take the time to set me straight. I have made a couple of assertions in this thread. From a brief review, all I can detect that clashes with your statements is my use of the term 'reward' to indicate the coinbase reward, where you use the term 'subsidy' (you use the term 'reward' to refer to the sum of your 'subsidy' plus our shared understanding of 'transaction fees'):

between the last fraction of a coin reward, and the transaction fees, it should cover the energy costs

I thought my usage made the distinction clear, so it must be the term itself for which I am being called out? If so, where is the authoritative glossary of 'approved' bitcoin terms? If not, what other errors have I committed?

Thanks!

Not that I can answer for Danny, but his corrections often remind me off my Math Profs. A lack of precision can be considered false and I value these corrections especially since english is not my first language and I indeed missuse words in a way that lacks said precision. I dont think its a specific list of words that is acceptable, but any words that are able to express the different concepts of fees and the subsidy for the fees while bitcoin is still young.


@ jonald_fyookball: Sorry I missread. Probably because I read "last block" a few times before.

[DannyHamilton]

- snip -
I wonder if you might take the time to set me straight.
- snip -

jbreher,

Much like fryarminer your mistake is rather slight.  It might even be considered to be excessive by some for me to say that you were "incorrect".

Specifically when you said:

Is there a possibility that LESS than 21 million coins will ever be mined? Probable?

No. Well, not in the sense that all the bitcoins (slightly less than 21 Mill) will be mined. If nobody else is going to mine them, my descendants will.

Due to a bug in some mining software early on, there were some blocks where the block subsidy was not claimed by the miner when they solved and broadcast the block.  Those bitcoins were therefore not "mined" and now cannot ever be mined.

Although it's generally unlikely, there is always the possibility that some miner in the future could also choose (either intentionally or accidentally) to broadcast a block that does not pay them the full subsidy that they are due.

As such, it is already guaranteed that LESS than the originally intended number of bitcoins will be mined, and there is a possibility that LESS than the intended remaining amount of bitcoins yet to be mined will be.

[jbreher]

Due to a bug in some mining software early on, there were some blocks where the block subsidy was not claimed by the miner when they solved and broadcast the block.  Those bitcoins were therefore not "mined" and now cannot ever be mined.

Mea culpa. Knew it, forgot about it, didn't think to account for it. Thanks.