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Author Topic: Bitcoin Island  (Read 9638 times)
benjamindees
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May 16, 2012, 08:08:08 PM
 #1

Bitcoin has always been exciting to me for the crowdfunding opportunities it enables.  With all the talk about seasteading and charter cities around here over the last year, I ran across this interesting opportunity, and decided to throw together a little project to see if the Bitcoin community is interested in taking a small step in that direction.

http://bitcoinisland.org




This property is currently bidding at around $125,000 with less than a week to go.  So I think 40,000 BTC is a reasonable goal.  If most Bitcoin users contribute, that's just a few Bitcoins per person.  And we get an island!  I can't say whether this will be possible or worthwhile, but it's worth a shot.  If we can get close, I have an investor who may be able to put us over the top.


FAQ:

Is the island in international waters?
 Unfortunately, no.

Where is it located?
 http://maps.google.com/maps?q=11.802401%2C-83.661222

What plans do you have for development?
 No specific plans.  Perhaps a block of condos, or a self-sufficient eco-resort?  Maybe something more unorthodox, like a test facility for seastead development.
 The island will go wherever the market takes it.

What does this have to do with Bitcoin?
 Bitcoin will be used on the island, the property will be rented for Bitcoins, and the island will help to further Bitcoin economic development.

Where can I contribute?
 1SLAND4JQt2mhypA6cR7TSh2UunW4NU4y

What reason do we have to believe that you won't take the Bitcoins and run?
 I would need an island to run to before doing that.

FAQ Update 1
FAQ Update 2

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phorensic
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May 16, 2012, 08:12:51 PM
 #2

Wouldn't you have to be a Nicaraguan citizen to buy that?  Are you prepared to live in Nicaragua?  There's good cigar tobacco down there, that's all I know haha.
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May 16, 2012, 08:14:26 PM
 #3

Words cannot describe how awesome this would be. No idea how it is practical or useful. But awesome, nonetheless.

Though, the google map link is pointing to the middle of the carribean...?
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May 16, 2012, 08:17:17 PM
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It puts an "A" marker in the middle of the ocean, the green arrow is what you wanna zoom in on.
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May 16, 2012, 08:18:32 PM
 #5

Quote
A reserve price is the minimum price the seller will accept. This price is hidden from bidders. To win, a bidder must have the highest bid and have met or exceeded the reserve price.

http://www.zimbio.com/Belize/articles/maC-c-o6X8d/5101+00+Private+5+Acre+Caribbean+Tropical
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May 16, 2012, 08:56:45 PM
 #6

Bitcoin will be used on the island,

And how would that work exactly? You know.. internet? Im guessing the nearest cell tower is a bit far.

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May 16, 2012, 08:59:35 PM
 #7

If it isn't in international waters beyond the authority of an existing government, it serves no purpose in seasteading whatever.  Nice thought though.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 16, 2012, 09:02:16 PM
 #8

Bitcoin will be used on the island,

And how would that work exactly? You know.. internet? Im guessing the nearest cell tower is a bit far.
I thought the same thing.  No Internet at all there = bummer.  Would have to somehow do a bi-directional sattelite setup and those SUCK.
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May 16, 2012, 09:02:44 PM
 #9

Bitcoin will be used on the island,

And how would that work exactly? You know.. internet? Im guessing the nearest cell tower is a bit far.

Internet access for a large group of users is relatively easy anywhere on earth except the poles, and even that isn't insurmoutable.  Still won't be as cheap as a mid-city broadband account, but the data for a minor bitcoin node shared by the group isn't an overwhelming burden.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 16, 2012, 09:03:31 PM
 #10

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And how would that work exactly? You know.. internet? Im guessing the nearest cell tower is a bit far.

Telestar-14 can hit it.



http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/maps/t14_nam.html

PEW PEW.  Bitcoins from SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Scott J
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May 16, 2012, 09:03:55 PM
 #11

Can you imagine?  Grin

I would love for this community to crowd source something like this.  

If we had a clear business plan then I don't see why it isn't possible  Cool

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May 16, 2012, 09:04:27 PM
 #12

I have considered something like this for a long time.

Crowd funding something.

The idea would be to have a type of club where you purchase membership by contributing Bitcoins.

The Bitcoin wallet where all of the Bitcoins sit would require a key from each member in order for it to be spent.

Once the right opportunity comes along and enough BTC is accumulated, then the members of the club all enter their keys and the BTC gets transferred.

The main thing I cannot figure out is if one person wants to sabotage the project they can get their key and hold it over everyone else to either destroy the club or to use it as a bargaining chip to get the money released. The only solutions to this would be situations where not everyone who contributed gets what they want.

http://www.bitpools.com
Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
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Gerald Davis


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May 16, 2012, 09:06:02 PM
 #13

I have considered something like this for a long time.

Crowd funding something.

The idea would be to have a type of club where you purchase membership by contributing Bitcoins.

The Bitcoin wallet where all of the Bitcoins sit would require a key from each member in order for it to be spent.

Once the right opportunity comes along and enough BTC is accumulated, then the members of the club all enter their keys and the BTC gets transferred.

The main thing I cannot figure out is if one person wants to sabotage the project they can get their key and hold it over everyone else to either destroy the club or to use it as a bargaining chip to get the money released. The only solutions to this would be situations where not everyone who contributed gets what they want.

Simple solution just make it an n of m multi-sig address.  Set n to be something reasonable which still makes members feel safe like say 80%.
Shadow383
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May 16, 2012, 09:24:16 PM
 #14

Shove it on GLBSE and if you can provide enough reason to trust you and some kind of business plan we will raise the money.

The main problem I see is that it would be empty for the majority of the year so you will need to be inventive to come up with a way to make money from it to keep shareholders happy.
This.
I'd throw a 10BTC your way just because I'd love to see something like this happen, but I don't think the community is likely to pitch in $200k on your word that you're using the money for an island...
Elwar
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May 16, 2012, 09:31:25 PM
 #15

I have considered something like this for a long time.

Crowd funding something.

The idea would be to have a type of club where you purchase membership by contributing Bitcoins.

The Bitcoin wallet where all of the Bitcoins sit would require a key from each member in order for it to be spent.

Once the right opportunity comes along and enough BTC is accumulated, then the members of the club all enter their keys and the BTC gets transferred.

The main thing I cannot figure out is if one person wants to sabotage the project they can get their key and hold it over everyone else to either destroy the club or to use it as a bargaining chip to get the money released. The only solutions to this would be situations where not everyone who contributed gets what they want.

Simple solution just make it an n of m multi-sig address.  Set n to be something reasonable which still makes members feel safe like say 80%.

Yes, I thought of that. But the 20% that do not agree would be forced to have their money spent on something they do not want. I suppose it could work if you set up a way to send the money back to those who do not want what the final decision is. Perhaps the 80% threshold gets hit and then the BTC gets transferred toward the purchase and the other 20% goes to those addresses that did not agree on the final decision.

http://www.bitpools.com
Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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May 16, 2012, 09:40:25 PM
 #16

I have considered something like this for a long time.

Crowd funding something.

The idea would be to have a type of club where you purchase membership by contributing Bitcoins.

The Bitcoin wallet where all of the Bitcoins sit would require a key from each member in order for it to be spent.

Once the right opportunity comes along and enough BTC is accumulated, then the members of the club all enter their keys and the BTC gets transferred.

The main thing I cannot figure out is if one person wants to sabotage the project they can get their key and hold it over everyone else to either destroy the club or to use it as a bargaining chip to get the money released. The only solutions to this would be situations where not everyone who contributed gets what they want.

Simple solution just make it an n of m multi-sig address.  Set n to be something reasonable which still makes members feel safe like say 80%.

Yes, I thought of that. But the 20% that do not agree would be forced to have their money spent on something they do not want. I suppose it could work if you set up a way to send the money back to those who do not want what the final decision is. Perhaps the 80% threshold gets hit and then the BTC gets transferred toward the purchase and the other 20% goes to those addresses that did not agree on the final decision.

Very easy to do that and do it completely anonymously but it does require a little trust that the refund will be honored.
1) Setup an multi-sig address for the initial contributors (lets say there are 20 of them)
2) Everyone must contribute from an address which can receive payments back (i.e. no ewallets other than ones like StrongCoin).
3) So all 20 initial contributors have paid into the multi-sig address (16 are required to sign a tx).

Now if new contributors come along you simply create a new multi-sig address (i.e. 18 of 22) have the new contributors make their pledge deposit, and have current contributors sign a tx to forward funds to the new address.   

When a potential purchase is found call a vote.  Vote can be verified by having members sign their vote w/ private key of their deposit address.

The options are:
Vote Yes
Vote No (refund if vote passes)
Vote No (contribute anyways if vote passes)

If the vote fails to gain 80% approval then nothing happens.
If the vote does gain 80% approval then create a multi-sig tx paying from all the addresses which agree and refunding all the addresses which don't.  All members can verify the tx and sign it.  Once it has 80% of signatures the tx is valid and funds will be dispersed.

The trust comes with the last step.  Members "could" once they have 80% of signatures forward all funds (even of those who object) and refund nothing.  Since they have 80% of the keys the minority can't prevent that.  I don't believe multi-sig can remove that element of trust.
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May 16, 2012, 10:13:20 PM
 #17

I have considered something like this for a long time.

Crowd funding something.

The idea would be to have a type of club where you purchase membership by contributing Bitcoins.

The Bitcoin wallet where all of the Bitcoins sit would require a key from each member in order for it to be spent.

Once the right opportunity comes along and enough BTC is accumulated, then the members of the club all enter their keys and the BTC gets transferred.

The main thing I cannot figure out is if one person wants to sabotage the project they can get their key and hold it over everyone else to either destroy the club or to use it as a bargaining chip to get the money released. The only solutions to this would be situations where not everyone who contributed gets what they want.

Simple solution just make it an n of m multi-sig address.  Set n to be something reasonable which still makes members feel safe like say 80%.

Yes, I thought of that. But the 20% that do not agree would be forced to have their money spent on something they do not want. I suppose it could work if you set up a way to send the money back to those who do not want what the final decision is. Perhaps the 80% threshold gets hit and then the BTC gets transferred toward the purchase and the other 20% goes to those addresses that did not agree on the final decision.

Very easy to do that and do it completely anonymously but it does require a little trust that the refund will be honored.
1) Setup an multi-sig address for the initial contributors (lets say there are 20 of them)
2) Everyone must contribute from an address which can receive payments back (i.e. no ewallets other than ones like StrongCoin).
3) So all 20 initial contributors have paid into the multi-sig address (16 are required to sign a tx).

Now if new contributors come along you simply create a new multi-sig address (i.e. 18 of 22) have the new contributors make their pledge deposit, and have current contributors sign a tx to forward funds to the new address.  

When a potential purchase is found call a vote.  Vote can be verified by having members sign their vote w/ private key of their deposit address.

The options are:
Vote Yes
Vote No (refund if vote passes)
Vote No (contribute anyways if vote passes)

If the vote fails to gain 80% approval then nothing happens.
If the vote does gain 80% approval then create a multi-sig tx paying from all the addresses which agree and refunding all the addresses which don't.  All members can verify the tx and sign it.  Once it has 80% of signatures the tx is valid and funds will be dispersed.

The trust comes with the last step.  Members "could" once they have 80% of signatures forward all funds (even of those who object) and refund nothing.  Since they have 80% of the keys the minority can't prevent that.  I don't believe multi-sig can remove that element of trust.


This would be the perfect way to implement something like this, but I think there won't be time to handle this particular case in this way.

Coming back to the island, the whole idea sounds really grandiloquent (maybe too much?), would be wonderful but may be easily the riskier thing I read on this forum (and this is something to say). It would be really nice to have a more detailed, better thought plan...
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May 16, 2012, 10:28:59 PM
 #18

Be careful, there doesn't appear to be a beach on this island. Seems like that would be a critical feature.

Since the island wouldn't be separable from the rules and regulations of Nicaragua anyway, it would be much more useful to just buy a resort already on the mainland beach someplace tropical. Internet would be easier, supplies would be easier, and arriving vacationers would have an easier time getting there. You could still allow people to pay for everything there in bitcoins.
benjamindees
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May 16, 2012, 10:37:29 PM
 #19

FAQ Update:

Wouldn't you have to be a Nicaraguan citizen to buy that?  Are you prepared to live in Nicaragua?

"Current owners are American and have owned the island for 6 years.  There are no restrictions for foreigners in owning the island, and the Nicaraguan Government fully recognizes foreign ownership."

And, yes, I'm willing to relocate in order to oversee development.

internet? Im guessing the nearest cell tower is a bit far.

The nearest city of Bluefields (15 miles away) has a fiber link.  I'm sure wireless can be arranged.

reserve price

Yes, there is a reserve.  I have a guess as to what it is.  And I think a target of 40,000 BTC will get us close enough.  No guarantees on this obviously, since we can always be outbid.

The main problem I see is that it would be empty for the majority of the year so you will need to be inventive to come up with a way to make money from it

This is the reason I've chosen a market-based approach to development rather than a corporate model.  With Bitcoin, I'm sure the community can find a way to make the best use of the available resources.

It would be really nice to have a more detailed, better thought plan...

The plan is to buy the island, rent out the current facilities for Bitcoins, and go from there.  If that means attracting a developer to break ground on a skyscraper, great.  If it means building a small fishing village and exporting lobster and coconuts, that's fine too.  I think there is lots of potential either way.

Personally, I'm open to just about anything as long as a reasonable balance between development and the natural surroundings can be maintained.  I foresee a development process that is open, transparent and inclusive of the entire Bitcoin community, but aimed toward the economic needs of the market and neither democratic nor directed.

I know that's not very detailed, but that's intentional.  I see many different ways this could end up being a boon to the Bitcoin community.  Which way it goes has more to do with you than with me.  Pitch in a few Bitcoins and we'll find out together.

there doesn't appear to be a beach on this island. Seems like that would be a critical feature.

Most beaches dredge or import sand anyways.  That's not a big issue.

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May 16, 2012, 10:41:57 PM
 #20

Voltron assemble!

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