To Roth or not to Roth?

[stochastic]

If you're under 50 I would suggest no Roth.  I look at Argentina and actually think that could happen in the US.  When they run out of money they'll be looking to take it from somewhere.

Don't put all your eggs in one basket.  Gold is cheap now.  

They will confiscate the gold before they do the Roths.

[silverbox]

If you're under 50 I would suggest no Roth.  I look at Argentina and actually think that could happen in the US.  When they run out of money they'll be looking to take it from somewhere.

Don't put all your eggs in one basket.  Gold is cheap now.  

They will confiscate the gold before they do the Roths.

Harder to hide your IRA then your gold

[tvbcof]

If you're under 50 I would suggest no Roth.  I look at Argentina and actually think that could happen in the US.  When they run out of money they'll be looking to take it from somewhere.

Don't put all your eggs in one basket.  Gold is cheap now.  

They will confiscate the gold before they do the Roths.

The 'barrier to entry' for confiscating physical gold is much higher than appropriating some data on some computer.  And I can donate my gold to entities who I believe are worthy if I see that coming.

I suspect that a great number of pensions have already been confiscated (and I don't buy the party line that pension fund managers are clueless boobs who didn't know what crap the MBSs were.)  The main thing left now is how to break it to the (would-be) pensioners that they are looking at some cold winters in their waning years.

[FreeMoney]

Some pretty heavy shit would have to be going to for them to confiscate IRAs or gold. But when they want to confiscate IRAs it will be 100% success, no chance to keep it. When they want gold it'll pretty much be people turning it in voluntarily for some kind of payment.

[BrightAnarchist]

Bringing back up an old thread... but time is taking its toll. I now am nearing the point where a very large % of my liquid assets are now in BTC. I didn't plan it this way exactly; it just happened. Probably because I'm a BTC addict and cannot stop buying them.

I guess at this point for diversity's sake I probably shouldn't keep buying them ( although it's hard not to ) and maintain my ol' stash of shitty treasury bills earning their 0.000000000000001% interest...

[jzcjca00]

Most bitcoiners don't realize that your choices are not just Roth IRA versus Bitcoin, but that it is currently possible to hold bitcoins directly in a Roth IRA.  Anyone can set up a self-directed IRA, which invests in an IRA LLC that you manage, which invests directly in bitcoins.  You do not need SecondMarket or any other third party.

It does take some effort and expense to set it up, so it's probably not worth doing unless you have at least $10,000 to invest.  There are a bunch of idiotic rules you have to follow.  For example, you cannot transfer or sell personally-owned bitcoins to the IRA LLC.  It can only trade with unrelated third parties.

It also doesn't matter whether you're in a higher tax bracket now or when you retire.  The important thing is that, with a Roth IRA, as long as you carefully follow all the rules and don't withdraw until age 59 1/2, you don't have to pay taxes on the earnings.  So if you invest $10,000 of after-tax money now, and if Bitcoin goes up by a factor of 100, you can withdraw that $1 million without paying any capital gains taxes!

More info on self-directed IRA LLCs at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=396783.0

[kellrobinson]

You're not allowed to withdraw contributions early from your Roth or you will pay a penalty, but you can take out gains at any time without penalty or even paying taxes on them.  There's a form you have to fill out on your federal taxes so the only downside to redeeming gains is a bit of paperwork.

[notme]

You're not allowed to withdraw contributions early from your Roth or you will pay a penalty, but you can take out gains at any time without penalty or even paying taxes on them.  There's a form you have to fill out on your federal taxes so the only downside to redeeming gains is a bit of paperwork.

I think you have that backward.  I thought you were allowed to withdraw contributions but not gains.  You already paid taxes on the contributions.

[cp1]

Bringing back up an old thread... but time is taking its toll. I now am nearing the point where a very large % of my liquid assets are now in BTC. I didn't plan it this way exactly; it just happened. Probably because I'm a BTC addict and cannot stop buying them.

I guess at this point for diversity's sake I probably shouldn't keep buying them ( although it's hard not to ) and maintain my ol' stash of shitty treasury bills earning their 0.000000000000001% interest...

Ha, must be nice.  All in at $5/BTC

[mmortal03]

You're not allowed to withdraw contributions early from your Roth or you will pay a penalty, but you can take out gains at any time without penalty or even paying taxes on them.  There's a form you have to fill out on your federal taxes so the only downside to redeeming gains is a bit of paperwork.

I think you have that backward.  I thought you were allowed to withdraw contributions but not gains.  You already paid taxes on the contributions.

Yeah, you can withdraw contributions (the principal) at any time without penalty, but not gains:

http://www.mymoneyblog.com/can-i-really-withdraw-my-roth-ira-contributions-at-any-time-without-tax-or-penalty.html

[Elwar]

The Roth IRA will be taxed by the time you retire if the US is still a country. If the US is still a country your Roth will be denominated in worthless Federal Reserve Notes.

Get away from any investment that leaves you holding Federal Reserve Notes other than using them as wallpaper or fire starter.

[jzcjca00]

Get away from any investment that leaves you holding Federal Reserve Notes other than using them as wallpaper or fire starter.

That's one great thing about an IRA LLC.  The assets are denominated in bitcoins, and as manager of the LLC, you are responsible for their security.  You can keep the private keys wherever you want.  Makes it a bit harder for the government to confiscate.  

[miaviator]

lol ok.  If your paying zero taxes, roth is the way to go..

I assumed you were at least making enuf to be paying taxes, lol.

This is America.  We can make mid six figures and pay -10% taxes as long as we obey US laws and have a damn good accountant.

It's the American way.

[BeatMyBit]

I thought about opening a IRA and then I found out you can only deposit a certain % of your reported income per year...I'll stick to my pile of BTCs the gov doesnt know about yet.

[jzcjca00]

I thought about opening a IRA and then I found out you can only deposit a certain % of your reported income per year...I'll stick to my pile of BTCs the gov doesnt know about yet.

You only run into a problem when you eventually want to purchase something or exchange those bitcoins for dollars.  When the tax man comes sniffing around, you're going to really wish you'd thought about the consequences sooner.  You will probably wind up paying lots of capital gains taxes rather than risk jail time.

You can put $5500 (or $6500 if you're over 50) per year into a Roth, up to 100% of your taxable income.  If the price of bitcoin really explodes, you could someday save $100,000 in taxes.