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Author Topic: Why blockchains might want to consider using AT "Turing complete" txs  (Read 21341 times)
CIYAM
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October 13, 2014, 03:22:43 PM
Last edit: October 14, 2014, 02:40:26 AM by CIYAM
 #1

Many may not be aware of Automated Transactions or AT (http://ciyam.org/at) but it is a "Turing complete" VM for transactions that can have "state" and perform "other transactions in a trustless and deterministic manner".

It was developed by myself in C++ and at least one Java version of it will be launched this week in a "testnet".

What it does is basically the same as Ethereum *except* that AT has been designed to be added to *any blockchain system*.

This means that the idea of "atomic cross-chain transfers" (that people may have heard about) would not only be possible between Bitcoin/Litecoin clones but *any blockchain*.

AT is open source (MIT License) and has been very thoroughly tested (every op code has unit tests - around 6 months of work by three people was put into doing this).

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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virtfund
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October 13, 2014, 03:31:54 PM
 #2

Interesting!
vbcs
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October 13, 2014, 06:54:21 PM
 #3

I am very glad we are going to do this! We have already succeed adding it into a blockchain and will be released the following days. More to come Smiley Exciting project!!


Here is just a preview Smiley . I know some might not understand what is this, but I will still post it. Enjoy


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October 13, 2014, 07:08:39 PM
 #4

So, Ethereum will be obsolete even before it comes out?

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October 13, 2014, 07:18:10 PM
 #5

That's up to you to decide. We mostly care for the tech Smiley and we believe any coin should have this functionality.

Later steps (not very soon) on this huge project will be to create a c based compiler for translating high level languages into AT code, so anyone without *machine code* knowledge can easily create programs.

Also we are going to release a new coin with a new proof ( at some point in the future, to fully exploit the power of AT), and we also want to integrate it to a btc based blockchain.  

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October 13, 2014, 07:50:48 PM
 #6

Many may not be aware of Automated Transactions or AT (http://ciyam.org/at) but it is a "Turing complete" VM for transactions that can have "state" and perform "other transactions in a trustless and deterministic manner".

It was developed by myself in C++ and at least one Java version of it will be launched this week in a "testnet".

What it does is basically the same as Ethereum *except* that AT has been designed to be added to *any blockchain system*.

This means that the idea of "atomic cross-chain transfers" (that people may have heard about) would not only be possible between Bitcoin/Litecoin clones but *any blockchain*.

AT is open source (MIT License) and has been very thoroughly tested (every op code has unit tests - around 6 months of work by three people was put into doing this).


Nice work, this project looks awesome! It was helpful for me too look at some of the Use Cases you implemented, can't wait too see where this goes.
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October 13, 2014, 08:09:46 PM
 #7

Atomic cross chain trading according to this is where two parties owns coins in separate cryptocurrenices and they to want to exchange them without having to trust a third party (centralized exchange).
Let's say I am holding some bitcoins and I want to make an anon transaction using an anon coin (cryptonote,darkcoin..whatever).
Both has AT integrated into the core so AT gives me the ability to make this cross chain trading.
As a user how I'm gonna find that I can purchase some anon coins and how many coins (in here I mean the price that I'm gonna purchase them)?
Also, is there an escrow or something after all ?
Is there an Open-Bazaar-like decentralized exchange on top of it which could provide to the users some infos about this trading and possible an escrow service (or is this planned somehow)?
Also I assume that supports assets trading, right?

Thanks
Vrontis

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October 13, 2014, 08:47:13 PM
 #8

Vrontis, you should be aware that this *system* is to provide Turing completeness programs/scripts/contracts (call them as you like) to any coin that uses AT. Thus anyone will be able to create his program, so how this can be extend, I guess it depends on the programmers and their imagination. Regarding the cross-chain txs the specs are not yet fully defined, so I am not able to answer properly your questions. You will have to wait until the specs are ready.

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October 13, 2014, 09:17:29 PM
 #9

Vrontis, you should be aware that this *system* is to provide Turing completeness programs/scripts/contracts (call them as you like) to any coin that uses AT. Thus anyone will be able to create his program, so how this can be extend, I guess it depends on the programmers and their imagination. Regarding the cross-chain txs the specs are not yet fully defined, so I am not able to answer properly your questions. You will have to wait until the specs are ready.

Well, yes.. I have pushed it a little further but this cross chain trading capability of AT blew my mind   Grin
 

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October 13, 2014, 09:38:29 PM
 #10

nice job ciyam, great to see this coming to fruition after so many months. Smiley

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CIYAM
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October 14, 2014, 02:26:31 AM
Last edit: October 14, 2014, 02:43:16 AM by CIYAM
 #11

Let's say I am holding some bitcoins and I want to make an anon transaction using an anon coin (cryptonote,darkcoin..whatever).
Both has AT integrated into the core so AT gives me the ability to make this cross chain trading.

Yes - if both blockchains use AT then atomic cross-chain transfers will be possible.

As a user how I'm gonna find that I can purchase some anon coins and how many coins (in here I mean the price that I'm gonna purchase them)?

That is another problem which would need to be addressed. For now we are focused on the *most fundamental* issues (in the short term I guess you could probably use an "asset" to accomplish this assuming at least one of the blockchains has "coloured coins").

Also, is there an escrow or something after all ?

Escrow is another "use case" for AT (it does end up with the problem of "oracles" though if you don't just mean solving the "who goes first" issue).

Is there an Open-Bazaar-like decentralized exchange on top of it which could provide to the users some infos about this trading and possible an escrow service (or is this planned somehow)?
Also I assume that supports assets trading, right?

AT is much like a "foundation" upon which other things will be able to be written.

Also AT will be able to handle all sorts of tx types (for those blockchains that have things like "messages" and "coloured coins").

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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October 14, 2014, 04:02:51 AM
 #12

This is a really great project. I remember when you announced it and things went back and forth whether you would build it or not.

And here it is! Congratulations.

NEM
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October 14, 2014, 10:29:42 AM
 #13

Who is hosting the AT?

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October 14, 2014, 03:19:15 PM
 #14

Why use AT instead of OT?
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October 14, 2014, 03:36:32 PM
Last edit: October 15, 2014, 03:25:33 AM by CIYAM
 #15

Why use AT instead of OT?

OT is a different concept as it uses more of a "federated server approach".

AT is directly tied to blockchains (so needs no such *federation*).

So with AT you will be able to do "trustless" transfers "across blockchains" without *any server in between* (only time will tell which model people prefer - it is not trying to *directly compete with OT* as for some things it might be better to use a "federated server approach").

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
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October 15, 2014, 09:59:28 AM
 #16

Wow!

To Qora.  That caught me by surprise. 

Isn't their code still not open-sourced?

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October 15, 2014, 10:27:12 AM
 #17

Wow!

To Qora.  That caught me by surprise. 

Isn't their code still not open-sourced?

Qora is indeed closed source and should be avoided. The reason behind keeping it closed source is because they don't want anyone to copy it.
CIYAM
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October 15, 2014, 10:53:53 AM
 #18

If close source projects want to use AT that is of no concern to me (license is MIT not GNU).

If they make their version of AT *incompatible* with others then it would basically just either make it harder or maybe even impossible for that blockchain to participate in atomic cross-chain transfers (which wouldn't be likely to help with making their blockchain very popular).

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
CIYAM
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October 15, 2014, 11:14:31 AM
 #19

Is it safe to assume that the AT devs will get at least a sneak-peek of the Qora source code (if not full access) during integration?

Note that I am not directly involved with the Qora project - but I guess it would only make sense that those who are would (that is entirely between Quora and themselves though).

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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mining is so 2012-2013


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October 15, 2014, 11:24:49 AM
 #20

If close source projects want to use AT that is of no concern to me (license is MIT not GNU).

If they make their version of AT *incompatible* with others then it would basically just either make it harder or maybe even impossible for that blockchain to participate in atomic cross-chain transfers (which wouldn't be likely to help with making their blockchain very popular).


I see your point.  I am also really impressed about how you handled yourself.  You gave back all the NXT when you parted ways.  In cryptoland that just doesn't happen that often.  

Just 2 days ago I was talking about how I thought CIYAM was one of the most valuable resources in NXT and how I thought you would come through with your project.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654845.msg9191130#msg9191130

With CfB phasing out, and you gone, to me that just leaves James as the only person left that can code something new and interesting.  

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