[Poll] Free Ross OR Kill Ross <search for public opinion>

[hyphymikey]

I say give him 5 years just to make a point. But I'm pretty sure the case will be dismissed since the feds unlawfully hacked into the server.

[QuestionAuthority]

Ok, we live without society in a village without laws or taxes. We told her not to do it but she did anyway. Should we kill her retarted kid instead of supporting it and letting it become a burden on our villages food supply?

[inBitweTrust]

Ok, we live without society in a village without laws or taxes. We told her not to do it but she did anyway. Should we kill her retarted kid instead of supporting it and letting it become a burden on our villages food supply?

Law and rules can and do exist with or without the state. These laws may be social or natural, even without community guidelines or politics.
While we cannot eliminate drug addicts we can certainly reduce them by raising our standard of living and reducing violence and abuse (especially against children).
This will allow us merely to reduce heroin/meth addicts. The next step is prevention. Legalized drug use with needle exchange programs (private non-profit )to reduce disease and offer free birth control(preferably something like depo-provera where the junky doesn't need to remember taking the pill). OK , now much less incidents , but there will always be some crazy bitch , perhaps schizophrenic, perhaps she wants a child, who knows, but it will happen... what's next? After she has the child the community should monitor her and non-profits should be free to help her and the child or not, and offer to find a family who wishes to adopt a child if the junky is being grossly negligent or is tired of the responsibility. None of this needs to involve welfare , taxes, or forcing you to be involved. There are plenty of people like myself who understand the implications of the situation and are willing to donate time and money to prevent such societal problems.
 

[FattyMcButterpants]

When they determine how many gang killings were avoided because people could buy drugs online instead of involving gangs he will be given a medal for saving lives.

This was an argument that would be said prior to SR being shut down. It was generally considered that buying drugs over the internet was much safer then buying drugs on the street. SR probably did save lives of people who would have died in drug deals gone wrong.

There were also at least two sets of murders that Ross allegedly attempted to pay for. If this is true then SR is not all that different from any other drug gang. The sellers on SR would also have access to the address of their buyers so they could potentially do bad things to their buyer in the event that something were to go wrong in the sale.

You also have the fact that SR made it much easier to get addicted to drugs and made it easier for addictions to get worse both of which are things that our public policy tries to prevent

[QuestionAuthority]

Ok, we live without society in a village without laws or taxes. We told her not to do it but she did anyway. Should we kill her retarted kid instead of supporting it and letting it become a burden on our villages food supply?

Law and rules can and do exist with or without the state. These laws may be social or natural, even without community guidelines or politics.
While we cannot eliminate drug addicts we can certainly reduce them by raising our standard of living and reducing violence and abuse (especially against children).
This will allow us merely to reduce heroin/meth addicts. The next step is prevention. Legalized drug use with needle exchange programs (private non-profit )to reduce disease and offer free birth control(preferably something like depo-provera where the junky doesn't need to remember taking the pill). OK , now much less incidents , but there will always be some crazy bitch , perhaps schizophrenic, perhaps she wants a child, who knows, but it will happen... what's next? After she has the child the community should monitor her and non-profits should be free to help her and the child or not, and offer to find a family who wishes to adopt a child if the junky is being grossly negligent or is tired of the responsibility. None of this needs to involve welfare , taxes, or forcing you to be involved. There are plenty of people like myself who understand the implications of the situation and are willing to donate time and money to prevent such societal problems.
 

I love theoretical debates about perfect societies but Ross is creating junkies right now. What do we do immediately?

[inBitweTrust]

I love theoretical debates about perfect societies but Ross is creating junkies right now. What do we do immediately?

No one is suggesting a perfect society is attainable over even something that we want to achieve. I am involved in different non profits to fight against these problems. Do you need me to create a list of things you can help with?

You also have the fact that SR made it much easier to get addicted to drugs and made it easier for addictions to get worse both of which are things that our public policy tries to prevent

This is just silly. Perhaps the silk road made it easier to get a greater choice of addictive drugs , but if someone wants to get high on something addictive they are going to do so with or without the silk road with a greater amount of ease than using the silk road.

There were also at least two sets of murders that Ross allegedly attempted to pay for. If this is true then SR is not all that different from any other drug gang.

How is two hypothetical murders anywhere near the violence per capita levels of street hustling with violent gangs and dangerous police?

[QuestionAuthority]

I love theoretical debates about perfect societies but Ross is creating junkies right now. What do we do immediately?

No one is suggesting a perfect society is attainable over even something that we want to achieve. I am involved in different non profits to fight against these problems. Do you need me to create a list of things you can help with?

You also have the fact that SR made it much easier to get addicted to drugs and made it easier for addictions to get worse both of which are things that our public policy tries to prevent

This is just silly. Perhaps the silk road made it easier to get a greater choice of addictive drugs , but if someone wants to get high on something addictive they are going to do so with or without the silk road with a greater amount of ease than using the silk road.

There were also at least two sets of murders that Ross allegedly attempted to pay for. If this is true then SR is not all that different from any other drug gang.

How is two hypothetical murders anywhere near the violence per capita levels of street hustling with violent gangs and dangerous police?

I believe that a mild punishment for Ross Ulbricht will not accomplish anything. He can simply leave prison, learn from his mistakes and perfect the marketplace. Nonprofits are great but they don't eliminate the problem any more than they eliminate homelessness. The legal system can't solve the "dangerous" drug problem any more than it can stop homelessness. The drug war is a joke and isn't stopping the problem but it at least the fear of being caught might be stopping a few teenaged girls from becoming junkie moms. With SR there was no fear. You could order not just pot but deadly drugs like you were buying socks off of Amazon. I understand that we need to get involved to stop these problems and I plan to get involved any time my daughters boyfriend has her try hard drugs. Some of these girls don't have family to help them and don't know about the nonprofits that can help. They only know they love and trust their boyfriend and he loves heroin. It may surprise you to learn that I support legalized recreational marijuana and I vote for it every time it's on the ballot.

[inBitweTrust]

I believe that a mild punishment for Ross Ulbricht will not accomplish anything. He can simply leave prison, learn from his mistakes and perfect the marketplace. Nonprofits are great but they don't eliminate the problem any more than they eliminate homelessness. The legal system can't solve the "dangerous" drug problem any more than it can stop homelessness. The drug war is a joke and isn't stopping the problem but it at least the fear of being caught might be stopping a few teenaged girls from becoming junkie moms. With SR there was no fear. You could order not just pot but deadly drugs like you were buying socks off of Amazon. I understand that we need to get involved to stop these problems and I plan to get involved any time my daughters boyfriend has her try hard drugs. Some of these girls don't have family to help them and don't know about the nonprofits that can help. They only know they love and trust their boyfriend and he loves heroin. It may surprise you to learn that I support legalized recreational marijuana and I vote for it every time it's on the ballot.

Well , I agree with many of your points and the "war" on drugs needs to be fought with families , communities , and non profits all working together. I don't agree that buying off the silk road is easier than getting drugs off the street however. If you are a teenage girl, perverts are making it really easy by inviting girls over to party or just hanging out with teenage girls and offering them free drugs. When you buy drugs on the silk road you have to know how to buy and use bitcoin, you have to know how to use Tor, and you have to run a risk of your parents noticing the package filled with drugs being shipped in. Perhaps , a few teenagers decided to buy the drugs directly rather than get them from the creepy pervert that is going to rape them.... good.

The larger problem is the fact that many families have both parents working full time jobs where they cannot properly raise their children.

In the end none of our opinions matter as technology will ultimately decide what we need to focus on in combating addiction in society. OpenBazaar and Darkmarket projects will make enforcement tedious and extremely difficult. Buying drugs online will get much easier and no political policy will prevent this. We need to deal with it and combat societies problems by being better neighbors and parents instead.

[Biomech]

Ok, we live without society in a village without laws or taxes. We told her not to do it but she did anyway. Should we kill her retarted kid instead of supporting it and letting it become a burden on our villages food supply?

Law and rules can and do exist with or without the state. These laws may be social or natural, even without community guidelines or politics.
While we cannot eliminate drug addicts we can certainly reduce them by raising our standard of living and reducing violence and abuse (especially against children).
This will allow us merely to reduce heroin/meth addicts. The next step is prevention. Legalized drug use with needle exchange programs (private non-profit )to reduce disease and offer free birth control(preferably something like depo-provera where the junky doesn't need to remember taking the pill). OK , now much less incidents , but there will always be some crazy bitch , perhaps schizophrenic, perhaps she wants a child, who knows, but it will happen... what's next? After she has the child the community should monitor her and non-profits should be free to help her and the child or not, and offer to find a family who wishes to adopt a child if the junky is being grossly negligent or is tired of the responsibility. None of this needs to involve welfare , taxes, or forcing you to be involved. There are plenty of people like myself who understand the implications of the situation and are willing to donate time and money to prevent such societal problems.
 

I love theoretical debates about perfect societies but Ross is creating junkies right now. What do we do immediately?

I came down harsh because the name you use would indicate some degree of thought outside of the left/right false dichotomy. My response would have been the same as the above, but he covered it.

However, to answer your latest, I would hope that people who wish to make positive changes would realize that you cannot change the system this instant. One of the problems with modern communities is no ability to delay gratification. Changing an entrenched paradigm overnight only comes about by it's sudden and utter collapse. Which is not an unlikely outcome, but it is also undesirable. Instead, the anarchist who actually wishes to implement his theories works to educate and remove the blinders that this paradigm has put upon them. There have been mulitple forms of governance over the ages, and many of them have done better at regulating the lower end of social interaction than our sociofascist pseudodemocracy. I would in fact argue that monarchy is a better form of governance, because with a well meaning king, people are helped, and with the usual kind, one man's reach is not so great. Republics, while giving a greater degree of power to the people at large, suffer from the same vulnerability as the block chain. The dreaded 51% attack.

But the idea has been extremely well marketed with more logical fallacies, half truths, and pure, unadulterated bullshit than any other form of government. This leads people to believe that it can't be any better than this. Especially the young who've never experienced anything else. I don't have that bias any more, unfortunately. I have watched this Republic devolve into the current nightmare in a very short period of time. The more the "tax supported" solutions are implemented, the more they are "needed". When people were self reliant AS AN AXIOM of how to live, there was far less addiction, dereliction, and poverty. By a lot. Even back 20 years ago you did not have the level of sheer stupidity that we have now in the United States. The masses have bought into the big mother fallacy to the point that they believe that a village can raise something other than a village idiot, and that parents are disposable.

Changing those attitudes took generations, and will probably take generations to repeal. When striving for a higher ideal, unless you are that village idiot, you accept that it's a lifelong work. You try to point out how things might be done better by small communities with decentralized leadership. You try to point out how the rule of law from a distant citadel is incapable of solving the problems it creates, and you back it up with a large body of work and evidence in the often vain hope that people will listen. Then, if you're lucky, after a decade or so, thinking people start to listen, learn, and spread the word. But the resistance to change, even when the current paradigm is a betrayal of humanity, is immense and ongoing.

For the immediate, you try to reduce your exposure and try to teach those you know how to be self reliant and well educated on what is going on. Also, if you are an anarchist, you teach people how to legally exploit the system while not being dependent on it, as the seeds of the system's destruction are the very things you complain of.

[Bit_Happy]

When they determine how many gang killings were avoided because people could buy drugs online instead of involving gangs he will be given a medal for saving lives.

This^^^ is how the world should be, but sadly Ross is in serious trouble.
I don't think the death penalty is coming for him, but probably a very long prison term.

[QuestionAuthority]

I can't say I disagree with either one of you. When I was a young single guy in college I could have been either one of you. My attitudes changed when I became a father. I made the extreme post showing the photos because I want people to understand this is a real issue not a hypothetical one. Is the girl in the photo just some knocked up stupid bitch that let her boyfriend hook her on drugs or is she someone's daughter or sister in trouble? Perspective is everything. It's easy to want freedom for this drug dealer (or facilitator) if his release won't effect you personally. I know jailing this guy is like floating in a sea of shit and reaching over the side of the boat to pick up one turd. It seems stupid until you realize that all you can do is flush one turd at a time.

Young people don't always make the best decisions. Mainly because they're immortal. I know because I was immortal until I was about 30. I don't know how to get my kids to 30 without being overprotective. Many times the legal system overprotects people even when it can't really solve the problems. But some people think they're immortal or their just stupid and need protection. Is it the best system? Definately not. Is it a good system? Definately not but it's the only tool I have to work with today.

[Biomech]

I can't say I disagree with either one of you. When I was a young single guy in college I could have been either one of you. My attitudes changed when I became a father. I made the extreme post showing the photos because I want people to understand this is a real issue not a hypothetical one. Is the girl in the photo just some knocked up stupid bitch that let her boyfriend hook her on drugs or is she someone's daughter or sister in trouble? Perspective is everything. It's easy to want freedom for this drug dealer (or facilitator) if his release won't effect you personally. I know jailing this guy is like floating in a sea of shit and reaching over the side of the boat to pick up one turd. It seems stupid until you realize that all you can do is flush one turd at a time.

Young people don't always make the best decisions. Mainly because they're immortal. I know because I was immortal until I was about 30. I don't know how to get my kids to 30 without being overprotective. Many times the legal system overprotects people even when it can't really solve the problems. But some people think they're immortal or their just stupid and need protection. Is it the best system? Definately not. Is it a good system? Definately not but it's the only tool I have to work with today.

I see your point. For the record, I'm a few weeks shy of 46. I also have two kids and a third on the way. I still believe as strongly as I stated above, and yes, this is the system we're currently stuck with. But it needs to go, and punishing DPR for, frankly, doing the same thing that any pharmacist is doing, does not help this nebulous "society" nor serve to protect anyone. The simple fact of the matter is that getting drugs is ridculously easy, no matter the venue, and that the silk road and similar sites existed before bitcoin, and will continue. I agree with the guys who say it probably prevented more violence than it caused trouble.

Drugs get a lot of blame. Drugs,, like guns, knives, and blunt instruments are neutral. They do nothing on their own. You can't have a war on drugs, cuz they won't fight back. The war on drugs is a war on people. I do not advocate the legalization of some drugs, we already have that. In fact, the two most deadly are available in most convenience stores. I advocate and end to ALL criminalization of personal behaviours. I know whence I speak, as I've know a lotof addicts. Most who do want help don't seek it, because they are afraid of the consequence of the law. This is counterproductive.

It also leads to massive corruption and a narrowing of focus by so called law enforcement agencies. When a drug bust carries more time than capital murder, which is often the case, you know that the system is useless. I don't have any short term solutions, other than immediate repeal of all criminal penalties for the sale and possession of drugs. That one thing would reduce the violence, stigma, and danger by so much that the rest would seem a small problem. Addicts would be able to seek help without fear. People who used and were personally responsible (in my experience, the vast majority of drug users) don't run the danger of getting shot or getting a vein full of Drano. It's the only short term solution that makes any sort of sense, and the evidence of it's success lies in Holland.

[scarsbergholden]

I can't say I disagree with either one of you. When I was a young single guy in college I could have been either one of you. My attitudes changed when I became a father. I made the extreme post showing the photos because I want people to understand this is a real issue not a hypothetical one. Is the girl in the photo just some knocked up stupid bitch that let her boyfriend hook her on drugs or is she someone's daughter or sister in trouble? Perspective is everything. It's easy to want freedom for this drug dealer (or facilitator) if his release won't effect you personally. I know jailing this guy is like floating in a sea of shit and reaching over the side of the boat to pick up one turd. It seems stupid until you realize that all you can do is flush one turd at a time.

Young people don't always make the best decisions. Mainly because they're immortal. I know because I was immortal until I was about 30. I don't know how to get my kids to 30 without being overprotective. Many times the legal system overprotects people even when it can't really solve the problems. But some people think they're immortal or their just stupid and need protection. Is it the best system? Definately not. Is it a good system? Definately not but it's the only tool I have to work with today.

This is very true. It is also an example of how "entry level" drugs can get people hooked on being "high" and to be in search for stronger and stronger highs which will lead to people wanting to try harder and harder drugs until they are not able to control their addiction and it is a serious problem

[Conqueror]

New article on Coindesk:
http://www.coindesk.com/ross-ulbricht-silk-road-trial-january/

[Bitcoin Magazine]

he should get no punishment for Silk Road but didn't he try to have someone killed?

Says the agencies who have repeatedly lied to the public. Lets wait for the evidence to be presented first, before we accuse someone who advocated the non -aggression principle and wouldn't allow guns to be sold within his marketplace.

Agree, lets see the evidence.

But just because he advocated those things doesn't mean
he couldn't have taken to desperate measures during desperate times.

The government does not need to show the evidence until it goes to trial. If he decides to take some kind of a plea deal then it will not need to show evidence. I think this is a very broken way of doing things but it is how our current criminal system works

Interesting choice of words

Interesting and sad chooise or words

He should be punished for his stupidity

well thats another history more important than the current one XD

walkin' in the cold.  just keep on flyin..

[Argwai96]

New article on Coindesk:
http://www.coindesk.com/ross-ulbricht-silk-road-trial-january/

This really is too bad. I was planning on following the trial of Ross next month, I even took off a week from work to be able to pay more attention to it.

I am not sure if I think he should be found guilty or not. He does make a good point about SR only providing a forum that people can "meet" at in order to buy and sell goods, also there were some legal goods that were for sale on the site. On the other hand SR clearly violated the spirit of many laws and I am not sure the spirit of the laws that protect sites like eBay would protect SR (I am less certain about the letter of such laws).

Regardless of what happens I think it will be very interesting to see how this case plays out

[Unbelive]

What is pioneer of Freedom?

 noun
1.
a person who is among those who first enter or settle a region, thus opening it for occupation and development by others.

So you say he is first one that thinks Freedom is something worth of fight for?  Billions and billions of people that was born on earth in 100000 years were just slaves?

[FattyMcButterpants]

I can't say I disagree with either one of you. When I was a young single guy in college I could have been either one of you. My attitudes changed when I became a father. I made the extreme post showing the photos because I want people to understand this is a real issue not a hypothetical one. Is the girl in the photo just some knocked up stupid bitch that let her boyfriend hook her on drugs or is she someone's daughter or sister in trouble? Perspective is everything. It's easy to want freedom for this drug dealer (or facilitator) if his release won't effect you personally. I know jailing this guy is like floating in a sea of shit and reaching over the side of the boat to pick up one turd. It seems stupid until you realize that all you can do is flush one turd at a time.

Young people don't always make the best decisions. Mainly because they're immortal. I know because I was immortal until I was about 30. I don't know how to get my kids to 30 without being overprotective. Many times the legal system overprotects people even when it can't really solve the problems. But some people think they're immortal or their just stupid and need protection. Is it the best system? Definately not. Is it a good system? Definately not but it's the only tool I have to work with today.

I see your point. For the record, I'm a few weeks shy of 46. I also have two kids and a third on the way. I still believe as strongly as I stated above, and yes, this is the system we're currently stuck with. But it needs to go, and punishing DPR for, frankly, doing the same thing that any pharmacist is doing, does not help this nebulous "society" nor serve to protect anyone. The simple fact of the matter is that getting drugs is ridculously easy, no matter the venue, and that the silk road and similar sites existed before bitcoin, and will continue. I agree with the guys who say it probably prevented more violence than it caused trouble.

Drugs get a lot of blame. Drugs,, like guns, knives, and blunt instruments are neutral. They do nothing on their own. You can't have a war on drugs, cuz they won't fight back. The war on drugs is a war on people. I do not advocate the legalization of some drugs, we already have that. In fact, the two most deadly are available in most convenience stores. I advocate and end to ALL criminalization of personal behaviours. I know whence I speak, as I've know a lotof addicts. Most who do want help don't seek it, because they are afraid of the consequence of the law. This is counterproductive.

It also leads to massive corruption and a narrowing of focus by so called law enforcement agencies. When a drug bust carries more time than capital murder, which is often the case, you know that the system is useless. I don't have any short term solutions, other than immediate repeal of all criminal penalties for the sale and possession of drugs. That one thing would reduce the violence, stigma, and danger by so much that the rest would seem a small problem. Addicts would be able to seek help without fear. People who used and were personally responsible (in my experience, the vast majority of drug users) don't run the danger of getting shot or getting a vein full of Drano. It's the only short term solution that makes any sort of sense, and the evidence of it's success lies in Holland.

The difference between Ross and a pharmacist is that a pharmacist is simply following the instructions of someone who took an oath look after the medical interests of the patients they see while ross was looking after the interests of drug dealers who only wanted to make money and were not looking after the interests of their customers (other then the fact that they would get a good "high"

[Biomech]

I can't say I disagree with either one of you. When I was a young single guy in college I could have been either one of you. My attitudes changed when I became a father. I made the extreme post showing the photos because I want people to understand this is a real issue not a hypothetical one. Is the girl in the photo just some knocked up stupid bitch that let her boyfriend hook her on drugs or is she someone's daughter or sister in trouble? Perspective is everything. It's easy to want freedom for this drug dealer (or facilitator) if his release won't effect you personally. I know jailing this guy is like floating in a sea of shit and reaching over the side of the boat to pick up one turd. It seems stupid until you realize that all you can do is flush one turd at a time.

Young people don't always make the best decisions. Mainly because they're immortal. I know because I was immortal until I was about 30. I don't know how to get my kids to 30 without being overprotective. Many times the legal system overprotects people even when it can't really solve the problems. But some people think they're immortal or their just stupid and need protection. Is it the best system? Definately not. Is it a good system? Definately not but it's the only tool I have to work with today.

I see your point. For the record, I'm a few weeks shy of 46. I also have two kids and a third on the way. I still believe as strongly as I stated above, and yes, this is the system we're currently stuck with. But it needs to go, and punishing DPR for, frankly, doing the same thing that any pharmacist is doing, does not help this nebulous "society" nor serve to protect anyone. The simple fact of the matter is that getting drugs is ridculously easy, no matter the venue, and that the silk road and similar sites existed before bitcoin, and will continue. I agree with the guys who say it probably prevented more violence than it caused trouble.

Drugs get a lot of blame. Drugs,, like guns, knives, and blunt instruments are neutral. They do nothing on their own. You can't have a war on drugs, cuz they won't fight back. The war on drugs is a war on people. I do not advocate the legalization of some drugs, we already have that. In fact, the two most deadly are available in most convenience stores. I advocate and end to ALL criminalization of personal behaviours. I know whence I speak, as I've know a lotof addicts. Most who do want help don't seek it, because they are afraid of the consequence of the law. This is counterproductive.

It also leads to massive corruption and a narrowing of focus by so called law enforcement agencies. When a drug bust carries more time than capital murder, which is often the case, you know that the system is useless. I don't have any short term solutions, other than immediate repeal of all criminal penalties for the sale and possession of drugs. That one thing would reduce the violence, stigma, and danger by so much that the rest would seem a small problem. Addicts would be able to seek help without fear. People who used and were personally responsible (in my experience, the vast majority of drug users) don't run the danger of getting shot or getting a vein full of Drano. It's the only short term solution that makes any sort of sense, and the evidence of it's success lies in Holland.

The difference between Ross and a pharmacist is that a pharmacist is simply following the instructions of someone who took an oath look after the medical interests of the patients they see while ross was looking after the interests of drug dealers who only wanted to make money and were not looking after the interests of their customers (other then the fact that they would get a good "high"

So, quantitatively, no difference at all. Just a different market demographic.

Also, pharmacists and doctors both are more often looking after the interest of their actual customers (the insurance companies) than their patients. It's not general, but it is wide spread. By your argument, a "street pharmacist" is by far the more honorable of the two, as they are neither using the Nuremberg defence or actively suppressing the true effects of their product.

[DhaniBoy]

if he is a victim of the media twisting facts, then he should be set free from all charges, it should be investigated with truth, so that we can determine which is completely wrong or completely innocent, I hope the judge can determine punishment in accordance with the mistake, if indeed he was wrong ...