How to keep safe from Bearwhales!

[Coinapult]

Regarding fees: We apply a small spread, typically 1-2% on the exchange price quoted. When Locking you are taken to a confirmation page where you can choose to accept the exchange rate, or not. I am not sure where the idea of an 8% fee came from, which would be high indeed! When we say 1-2%, that is to cover all eventualities. The most you will pay is 2% but usually the rate quoted is lower.

In coinapult's defense, I can verify the spread is indeed 2% as I just verified -

https://api.coinapult.com/api/ticker?filter=small

Granted this is a larger spread than bitstamp, circle or coinbase.  Coinbases is 0.3% , coinapult still fulfills a important role in countries outside the US .

Hi inBitweTrust, Coinbase charges a 1% fee on top of their spread to buy and sell. Correct?

Coinapult charges no fees, pure spread.

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[Coinapult]

Because they don't want to call it "selling with no option to withdraw", which is what it really is.

Exchanges let you withdraw either fiat or bitcoin.  Locking services only let you withdraw bitcoin.  I am not sure why there would be demand for this kind of crippled service, when exchanges already exist and do more.

As someone who is a longterm bitcoin bull, I see no use for this feature either, outside of a tool for day traders , but than again other exchanges have lower fees. If you don't want to ride on the volatility roller coaster than just cash out and hold the fiat yourself instead of with a third party.

This being said, coinapult is an important provider for interacting with banks outside the US.

Locks will also be supported in Coinapult's SMS wallet.  The unbanked can't access exchanges, but many have SMS capabilities.

[AdamSmith]

What fee they charge to lock in the rate?

[inBitweTrust]

Hi inBitweTrust, Coinbase charges a 1% fee on top of their spread to buy and sell. Correct?

Coinapult charges no fees, pure spread.

Sure, but that is the fee to ach it to your bank account, just like the fee for a wire transfer with your service.
If someone wanted lock their BTC to a certain fiat price and keep that fiat with a third party than why not simply use an exchange?

BTC-e charges a 0.2% fee
bitstamp is 0.5% to 0.2%
kraken is 0.35% to 0.1%

So if I were to "lock" and "unlock" on btc right now I would pay
7.52 usd with coinapult
1.89 fee x2 + 2 dollar spread = 5.78 with bitstamp
0.74 x 2 fee + 0.14 dollar spread = 1.62 with btc-e
1.31 x 2 fee + 7.27 dollar spread = 9.89 with kraken (yours is better than kraken)

Am I missing something here ?

 Hmmm... perhaps the locks and unlocks is just another way to spin what a normal exchange does and the real decision on which exchange to use has more to
deal with a trust issue , and how easy it is to get cash into the exchange, and the fees. I would certainly trust an exchange more with holding fiat if I knew who the owners were.... thus
I would trust coinapult and bitstamp above btc-e.

[QuestionAuthority]

Hi inBitweTrust, Coinbase charges a 1% fee on top of their spread to buy and sell. Correct?

Coinapult charges no fees, pure spread.

Sure, but that is the fee to ach it to your bank account, just like the fee for a wire transfer with your service.
If someone wanted lock their BTC to a certain fiat price and keep that fiat with a third party than why not simply use an exchange?

BTC-e charges a 0.2% fee
bitstamp is 0.5% to 0.2%
kraken is 0.35% to 0.1%

So if I were to "lock" and "unlock" on btc right now I would pay
7.52 usd with coinapult
1.89 fee x2 + 2 dollar spread = 5.78 with bitstamp
0.74 x 2 fee + 0.14 dollar spread = 1.62 with btc-e
1.31 x 2 fee + 7.27 dollar spread = 9.89 with kraken (yours is better than kraken)

Am I missing something here ?

 Hmmm... perhaps the locks and unlocks is just another way to spin what a normal exchange does and the real decision on which exchange to use has more to
deal with a trust issue , and how easy it is to get cash into the exchange, and the fees. I would certainly trust an exchange more with holding fiat if I knew who the owners were.... thus
I would trust coinapult above btc-e. Who operates bitstamp?

Really? You would trust them more if you knew who the owners were?

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/us-sec-fines-erik-voorhees-unregistered-bitcoin-ipos/

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82866.msg7114155#msg7114155

[inBitweTrust]

Really? You would trust them more if you knew who the owners were?

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/us-sec-fines-erik-voorhees-unregistered-bitcoin-ipos/

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82866.msg7114155#msg7114155

I'm merely suggesting that if one depends upon an centralized exchange, one should at least know who the owners are.

From what I understand about reading those two links Eric was attacked by the SEC and thus has been slow to deliver on FeedZeBirds?
This could be because he used all the money between lawyers/fines , or he has been caught up in paperwork and projects, or potentially it was a scam from the get go.
I would tend to think it is the first 2 reasons and seems like he is merely stretching himself too thin over different projects, but I can also empathize with you because I haven't seen any recent updates in a while concerning the project either so at minimum he needs to improve upon his relationship with investors.

[QuestionAuthority]

Really? You would trust them more if you knew who the owners were?

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/us-sec-fines-erik-voorhees-unregistered-bitcoin-ipos/

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82866.msg7114155#msg7114155

I'm merely suggesting that if one depends upon an centralized exchange, one should at least know who the owners are.

From what I understand about reading those two links Eric was attacked by the SEC and thus has been slow to deliver on FeedZeBirds?
This could be because he used all the money between lawyers/fines , or he has been caught up in paperwork and projects, or potentially it was a scam from the get go.
I would tend to think it is the first 2 reasons and seems like he is merely stretching himself too thin over different projects, but I can also empathize with you because I haven't seen any recent updates in a while concerning the project either so at minimum he needs to improve upon his relationship with investors.

The biggest problem that I see is a willingness to break the law and not attempt to be compliant. How can you trust a business that is willing to skirt regulation? I can sympathize with individuals that feel the legal system is unjust and possibly even ignore the law. The only person they're hurting if caught is themselves. Businesses don't have that luxury. They need to be above board all the time because they are risking the money of customers. The two founders of that company came from BitInstant. Bitinstant skirted the law. Was that the doing of one individual, a company policy or a shared cultural view of all employees? There's no way to know. Just realize who you're getting into bed with before you do it.

[inBitweTrust]

The biggest problem that I see is a willingness to break the law and not attempt to be compliant. How can you trust a business that is willing to skirt regulation? I can sympathize with individuals that feel the legal system is unjust and possibly even ignore the law. The only person they're hurting if caught is themselves. Businesses don't have that luxury. They need to be above board all the time because they are risking the money of customers. The two founders of that company came from BitInstant. Bitinstant skirted the law. Was that the doing of one individual, a company policy or a shared cultural view of all employees? There's no way to know. Just realize who you're getting into bed with before you do it.

Erik Voorhees from what I understand is either an anarchist or libertarian and has never hid that fact. Our "kind" doesn't care so much for laws and regulations as much as ethics. Investors should be cognizant that there are risks and rewards to dealing with anarchists as avoiding regulation presents opportunities and risks of state actors attacking you.

I have no problem investing capital in anarchists I know. I think he has just taken on too much and has good intentions to deliver, but I suppose time will tell.

[QuestionAuthority]

The biggest problem that I see is a willingness to break the law and not attempt to be compliant. How can you trust a business that is willing to skirt regulation? I can sympathize with individuals that feel the legal system is unjust and possibly even ignore the law. The only person they're hurting if caught is themselves. Businesses don't have that luxury. They need to be above board all the time because they are risking the money of customers. The two founders of that company came from BitInstant. Bitinstant skirted the law. Was that the doing of one individual, a company policy or a shared cultural view of all employees? There's no way to know. Just realize who you're getting into bed with before you do it.

Erik Voorhees from what I understand is either an anarchist or libertarian and has never hid that fact. Our "kind" doesn't care so much for laws and regulations as much as ethics. Investors should be cognizant that there are risks and rewards to dealing with anarchists as avoiding regulation presents opportunities and risks of state actors attacking you.

I have no problem investing capital in anarchists I know. I think he has just taken on too much and has good intentions to deliver, but I suppose time will tell.

That's it, as long as you're willing to risk your money along with him. It's all good. Just don't expect a company like Circle to get into bed with them. It probably won't happen. We could debate the ethics of risking the money of uninformed people for profit but I'd rather not. Good luck. Circle is such a great company and works so fast they will crush them anyway.

[inBitweTrust]

That's it, as long as you're willing to risk your money along with him. It's all good. Just don't expect a company like Circle to get into bed with them. It probably won't happen. We could debate the ethics of risking the money of uninformed people for profit but I'd rather not. Good luck.

Yes, and that is also why BTC-E is priced so cheaply for fees. The end user is trading lack of regulation for lower fees.

 With regards to leaving any fiat within either a regulated or unregulated exchange: I would suggest neither as one may steal your funds directly(or get hacked) and the other one will steal your funds indirectly through capital gains.

With regards to my opinion investing in any crypto-assets like what you are suggesting: I think this is very risky and would like o see more IPO's where the funds are held in a multisig account where some of the controlling members are trusted individuals outside of the business with no conflicts of interest.

[Coinapult]

What fee they charge to lock in the rate?

Hi AdamSmith,

There is no fee using Locks.  For transactions up to 50 BTC we keep the bid-ask spread between 2 and 4%. This means each transaction will be 1-2% away from our index price, which closely mirrors prices at the major exchanges. Most of the time the spread will be near the minimum, only venturing near the maximum when the market becomes abnormally illiquid.

Unlike exchanges, Coinapult guarantees the price quoted for 15 minutes.  The point is, you'll know the price before you act.

[Coinapult]

Hi inBitweTrust, Coinbase charges a 1% fee on top of their spread to buy and sell. Correct?

Coinapult charges no fees, pure spread.

Sure, but that is the fee to ach it to your bank account, just like the fee for a wire transfer with your service.
If someone wanted lock their BTC to a certain fiat price and keep that fiat with a third party than why not simply use an exchange?

BTC-e charges a 0.2% fee
bitstamp is 0.5% to 0.2%
kraken is 0.35% to 0.1%

So if I were to "lock" and "unlock" on btc right now I would pay
7.52 usd with coinapult
1.89 fee x2 + 2 dollar spread = 5.78 with bitstamp
0.74 x 2 fee + 0.14 dollar spread = 1.62 with btc-e
1.31 x 2 fee + 7.27 dollar spread = 9.89 with kraken (yours is better than kraken)

Am I missing something here ?

 Hmmm... perhaps the locks and unlocks is just another way to spin what a normal exchange does and the real decision on which exchange to use has more to
deal with a trust issue , and how easy it is to get cash into the exchange, and the fees. I would certainly trust an exchange more with holding fiat if I knew who the owners were.... thus
I would trust coinapult and bitstamp above btc-e.

To clarify your first sentence, Coinapult doesn't handle wire transfers with retail customers. It's Bitcoin in and Bitcoin out, so there is no wire fee.

In response to your exchange fee analysis, you're right, Locks may not be the best deal for people that have already incurred the cost in time and effort to establish an exchange account.  However, how many people have you tried to get interested in Bitcoin that gave up during the multi-step and often multi-week process of setting up an exchange account?  Likely many. 

With Coinapult, you can email new users bitcoin and they can immediately Lock.  In less than 2 minutes, they can experience Bitcoin transactions without having to learn a completely new currency and without having to deal with Bitcoin's volatility.  The less barriers new users perceive to using the blockchain, the faster adoption will take place.

One advantage veterans may find in wallets like Electrum that have the Locks plug-in enabled is convenience.  Significant funds are held on exchanges because waiting 3-6 confirmations before market action can be taken can be too expensive, especially when there is high volume on the network.  With Electrum + Locks, you receive a guaranteed price quote before you send funds.  Don't forget that time is money