why do people agree to pay taxes?

[Nicolas Dorier]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

well i think its needed or there will be chaos

with taxes the country has money and they can help build there country without taxes i dont know what source of money they would have!

This is correct. The government needs money in order to function. There are certain things that would never be appropriate for private enterprises to do (like make and enforce laws) and certain things that it would make more sense for the government to do (instead of a private enterprise) to do, like schools for example.

What is your point for such claims ? Enforcement of laws, we don't need them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTYkdEU_B4o
Nobody have yet gave a single logical argument about why this system would not work.

What is your point for schools ? Murray Rothbard have compelling argument about why private education would be better and cheaper than public one.
Here is one book I did not read. (http://mises.org/sites/default/files/Education%20Free%20and%20Compulsory_3.pdf)
And his point in "For a New Liberty", that I already read. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALSCIo05yJI

TL;DR :
Public education is always stretched in war between people that want more art, some more math, some more religion, some more whatever, more teacher, better condition etc...
The problem is that the compromise is not really compelling to anyone.
A solution would be private school, curriculum included, that would let everyone decide by themself which school their children should go, based on their own judgement. (instead of a half backed compromise)
This would embrace human diversity over uniformity.
Each school would have an incentive to choose a curriculum that please their customers.
This would make school competition fierce. Obsession toward efficiency would drive the price of schooling down.
Taxes would not finance the school, which would make the poor and rich alike better disposed to spend it in schools they chose with their own preferences.

I can't make justice to Rothbard in 5 lines on the book he wrote, but this is the general idea.

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[picolo]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

well i think its needed or there will be chaos

with taxes the country has money and they can help build there country without taxes i dont know what source of money they would have!

This is correct. The government needs money in order to function. There are certain things that would never be appropriate for private enterprises to do (like make and enforce laws) and certain things that it would make more sense for the government to do (instead of a private enterprise) to do, like schools for example.

Education is too important to leave the government take care of it, it will use it for political gains and you will end up having to pay a high price with no competition and no innovation

[panju1]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

well i think its needed or there will be chaos

with taxes the country has money and they can help build there country without taxes i dont know what source of money they would have!

This is correct. The government needs money in order to function. There are certain things that would never be appropriate for private enterprises to do (like make and enforce laws) and certain things that it would make more sense for the government to do (instead of a private enterprise) to do, like schools for example.

Education is too important to leave the government take care of it, it will use it for political gains and you will end up having to pay a high price with no competition and no innovation

Education (especially at the school level) is a basic need. If this is left totally to private enterprises, they would only think of profiteering from it. You need the government to provide a good counter through affordable, quality education.
You also need quality regulators to ensure that private enterprises are doing an acceptable job. All this requires money, paid for by our taxes.

[desertfox470]

People pay taxes because in the end it is a necessity on a certain level and people cannot fight the government about something like that. Ever since the roman ages people were paying taxes. Nothing has changed.

[bf4btc]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

well i think its needed or there will be chaos

with taxes the country has money and they can help build there country without taxes i dont know what source of money they would have!

This is correct. The government needs money in order to function. There are certain things that would never be appropriate for private enterprises to do (like make and enforce laws) and certain things that it would make more sense for the government to do (instead of a private enterprise) to do, like schools for example.

Education is too important to leave the government take care of it, it will use it for political gains and you will end up having to pay a high price with no competition and no innovation

Education (especially at the school level) is a basic need. If this is left totally to private enterprises, they would only think of profiteering from it. You need the government to provide a good counter through affordable, quality education.
You also need quality regulators to ensure that private enterprises are doing an acceptable job. All this requires money, paid for by our taxes.

Right. This is why private schools (both at the secondary and post-secondary - eg college levels) are so much more expensive then public schools (eg schools run by the government). It is also probably why private schools have such a lower success rate of people graduating and finding employment (that requires the degree earned) then public schools so

[Honeypot]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

Let me ask you another question OP.

Why do people agree to live in a country? For that matter, why do they agree to live alongside other people in communities and benefit from the inclusion, while denouncing the cost of belonging to such a group?


Once again, why do you agree to live in A COUNTRY? A community?

[dmeter]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

if you will not pay taxes to the government, then there is no police, no court, no law.
Then you will pay taxes, the largest drug dealer from your neighborhood.
If you do not feed your army, then you feed enemy army.
But if you do not like it you can always buy a boat and sail the high seas, or move into the wilderness of Canada, Alaska, South America, Africa. But you probably do not like that scenario. You would probably want legal and physical protection, and would utilize the market that the government is legally organized and edited, you would use the state infrastructure but would not want to pay for the use .

[NotLambchop]

...It is also probably why private schools have such a lower success rate of people graduating and finding employment (that requires the degree earned) then public schools so

Had you not foregone both private and public schooling in favor of huffing paint, you would know why children of the wealthy elite, those who both can afford & are willing to pay the tuition of private schools, are more likely to succeed than the children of ghetto crackheads

[picolo]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

if you will not pay taxes to the government, then there is no police, no court, no law.
Then you will pay taxes, the largest drug dealer from your neighborhood.
If you do not feed your army, then you feed enemy army.
But if you do not like it you can always buy a boat and sail the high seas, or move into the wilderness of Canada, Alaska, South America, Africa. But you probably do not like that scenario. You would probably want legal and physical protection, and would utilize the market that the government is legally organized and edited, you would use the state infrastructure but would not want to pay for the use .

The taxes are not for court or police but for the government to keep ruling and get bigger. 1% of the taxes paid in the US would be enough for police and court.
You can't justified taxes with 1% of what they are spent for.

[Nicolas Dorier]

if you will not pay taxes to the government, then there is no police, no court, no law.

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, History proves it. Not repeating myself with Rothbard's argument, I did not even seen opposed once, just ignored.

If you do not feed your army, then you feed enemy army.

Feeding one ruler instead of another does not mean a shit to me.

you would use the state infrastructure but would not want to pay for the use .

You misunderstood. We are not against paying for services, we are against being forced to pay for a service that is protected from competition.

As I am against, I profit from this system. My main activity is ".NET Development Certified Trainer", and in France I am paid between 800 to 1500€ a day for it, while a school teacher is barely at 150€.
It is not because I am smarter, it is just because in my country, the State subsidies enormous sum of money (and oblige companies to save) for corporate training.
It makes my customers completely insensitive to the price... this money does not got into the well being of my students (employees), if I was paid less, I would still give courses and trainer's would be as good as now.
This money goes into my pocket and training centers one.

You are forced to pay taxes. And I will collect it, if I don't I would be like a milk cow. (the majority)
I don't support such system. But it is always possible to profit from the tax system and not be a milk cow.

[picolo]

if you will not pay taxes to the government, then there is no police, no court, no law.

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, History proves it. Not repeating myself with Rothbard's argument, I did not even seen opposed once, just ignored.

If you do not feed your army, then you feed enemy army.

Feeding one ruler instead of another does not mean a shit to me.

you would use the state infrastructure but would not want to pay for the use .

You misunderstood. We are not against paying for services, we are against being forced to pay for a service that is protected from competition.

As I am against, I profit from this system. My main activity is ".NET Development Certified Trainer", and in France I am paid between 800 to 1500€ a day for it, while a school teacher is barely at 150€.
It is not because I am smarter, it is just because in my country, the State subsidies enormous sum of money (and oblige companies to save) for corporate training.
It makes my customers completely insensitive to the price... this money does not got into the well being of my students (employees), if I was paid less, I would still give courses and trainer's would be as good as now.
This money goes into my pocket and training centers one.

You are forced to pay taxes. And I will collect it, if I don't I would be like a milk cow. (the majority)
I don't support such system. But it is always possible to profit from the tax system and not be a milk cow.

Let me quote you : You misunderstood. We are not against paying for services, we are against being forced to pay for a service that is protected from competition. Well said!

[Silverspoon]

...
Let me quote you : You misunderstood. We are not against paying for services, we are against being forced to pay for a service that is protected from competition. Well said!

When you check into a hotel, do you say "I'm not gonna need those stupid pillow mints, i'm not even gonna use the bed, so you have no right to charge me for it"?

Living in a country is like that.  The roads are already built, the army's already standing, cops already hired, even their shiny cruisers are already bought.  The fact that you do not wish to use them is irrelevant, it's part and parcel of living in your country, no opt-out clause other than boring stuff like voting and shit.

If you don't like it, you are welcome to leave.  Other than states like Soviet Russia, leaving your country is easy & painless.

[Atdhe]

Well you can always leave just de iure and then stay in the country at least partially and enjoy the freeride via the already built infrastructure etc.

There are many possibilities like this. You canmake invoices for your company for example, that is in offshore paradise and the bankers then give you credit card which you can use for your personal spendings etc. Ppl have to be more creative.

[teukon]

When you check into a hotel, do you say "I'm not gonna need those stupid pillow mints, i'm not even gonna use the bed, so you have no right to charge me for it"?

Living in a country is like that.

Checking into a hotel requires the consent of the customer.  Being born in a country involves no such consent.  The difference is night and day.

[carlosiness]

it came from ancient times, when some guy lent money for poor people, he asked some fee. nowadays it is the same.

[Silverspoon]

When you check into a hotel, do you say "I'm not gonna need those stupid pillow mints, i'm not even gonna use the bed, so you have no right to charge me for it"?

Living in a country is like that.

Checking into a hotel requires the consent of the customer.  Being born in a country involves no such consent.  The difference is night and day.

You didn't have a say in being born, and that's why your country owes you a living?
If you were born at my house, would you feel entitled to live in it without bothering to pay me rent?  For that matter, do you feel that you have a right to homestead in the maternity ward of the hospital where you were born?  Help me understand.

[Nicolas Dorier]

You didn't have a say in being born, and that's why your country owes you a living?

This is all the contrary. My country does not owe me anything, but I don't owe it either.
"State owes you a living" means believing that the moral duty of others is to pay for you without their consent.
I and any libertarian do not ask for that. On the contrary.

But since I have no choice except paying or getting the subsidies in my pocket, I choose to the the latter, by working where they drive my wage above what the market would really offer.

You didn't have a say in being born, and that's why your country owes you a living?
If you were born at my house, would you feel entitled to live in it without bothering to pay me rent?  Help me understand.

The difference is that if I don't like your hospitality nor your rent, I am free to go elsewhere.
The difference is that if you have a shit service, you'll go bankrupt and a better competitor will provide better services to me, as a customer. You will not be protected for your incompetence, which most public service are.
Also, why should I pay taxes on my land if I own it ? This is not the property of the state if I bought it. You can't compare the tax to a rent. A tax go to someone who does not own the place, by force.

[picolo]

When you check into a hotel, do you say "I'm not gonna need those stupid pillow mints, i'm not even gonna use the bed, so you have no right to charge me for it"?

Living in a country is like that.

Checking into a hotel requires the consent of the customer.  Being born in a country involves no such consent.  The difference is night and day.

You should not be owned by the State where you are born.

[Silverspoon]

You didn't have a say in being born, and that's why your country owes you a living?
If you were born at my house, would you feel entitled to live in it without bothering to pay me rent?  Help me understand.

The difference is that if I don't like your hospitality nor your rent, I am free to go elsewhere.

You are not free to leave France?

The difference is that if you have a shit service, you'll go bankrupt and a better competitor will provide better services to me, as a customer. You will not be protected for your incompetence, which most public service are.

If you don't like my house, you can always go & try your luck elsewhere.  I certainly won't try to stop you.

By the way ? Why should I pay taxes on my land if I own it ? This is not the property of the state if I bought it ?

Not sure about French law, but buying land in US doesn't make you its absolute owner.  It's sorta like buying an apartment in an apartment building.
You can't do whatever you want with your land (as you can't breed pigs in an apartment you "own"), and you certainly have to pay taxes (apartment maintenance fee).
In US, your land can also be taken from you to build a highway exit ramp, for instance.  That's called "eminent domain."
So no, you really don't own your land any more than you own the sky above it (air rights).
I hope I've been able to clear up some confusion here.

[Atdhe]

You are all pussies. Why do not you fight more? Those debates lead to nowhere. State had, has and will be the ones with power and endless debates what should or should not be right give even more power to the state.

If you do not want to pay taxes, just do not pay them. Make offshore account, offshore company, gain double residency or just risk it. It is your f**king life. Why is here bitcoin? For tax evasion indeed as well. So use it. Pay with it. Just please stop whinging. The stronger always eat the weaker. And the whingers are the weakest.