Bitcoin Ponzi - Ponzicoin ?

[R2D221]

The fact that it is deliberately called “Ponzi” makes me doubt whether you are being cynical or sarcastic.

[QuestionAuthority]

I see what you're trying to do but I don't think you can do it. You want to get people that like to sell their friends on crap like Amway or Melaleuca to sell their friends on Bitcoin. If each person that used Bitcoin could just sell 5 people then Bitcoin would grow much faster. That's the MLM marketing idea and it gets results with a certain type of people but the marketing is word of mouth to friends. What you're forgetting is that Bitcoin isn't really a financial tool it's a cult of people that probably talk about it in their sleep. Everyone bitcoiners know have already been converted or refused Bitcoin and they have no one else to tell. What you need to invent at this point is Seventh Day Adventist coin and start knocking on doors.

[BADecker]

The fact that it is deliberately called “Ponzi” makes me doubt whether you are being cynical or sarcastic.

You are soooooo good!   

[BADecker]

I see what you're trying to do but I don't think you can do it. You want to get people that like to sell their friends on crap like Amway or Melaleuca to sell their friends on Bitcoin. If each person that used Bitcoin could just sell 5 people then Bitcoin would grow much faster. That's the MLM marketing idea and it gets results with a certain type of people but the marketing is word of mouth to friends. What you're forgetting is that Bitcoin isn't really a financial tool it's a cult of people that probably talk about it in their sleep. Everyone bitcoiners know have already been converted or refused Bitcoin and they have no one else to tell. What you need to invent at this point is Seventh Day Adventist coin and start knocking on doors.

This is part of the thing that many bitcoiners are trying to change. We want Bitcoin to become a household word.

Nowadays, many people use credit cards over the Internet. Many people bank over the Internet. So, it isn't a far step to get them to see how they could make money at the same time that they learn a new financial-like method... one that they could use with friends, and even in the business that they own.

This is one idea to move Bitcoin into a big group of people who just might take Bitcoin into the marketplace more than ever, if only they had the right incentive.

[BADecker]

I wonder if Multibit, Electrum or Armory would like to do this. Whoever is first stands to take their Bitcoin client to the moon.

[QuestionAuthority]

I see what you're trying to do but I don't think you can do it. You want to get people that like to sell their friends on crap like Amway or Melaleuca to sell their friends on Bitcoin. If each person that used Bitcoin could just sell 5 people then Bitcoin would grow much faster. That's the MLM marketing idea and it gets results with a certain type of people but the marketing is word of mouth to friends. What you're forgetting is that Bitcoin isn't really a financial tool it's a cult of people that probably talk about it in their sleep. Everyone bitcoiners know have already been converted or refused Bitcoin and they have no one else to tell. What you need to invent at this point is Seventh Day Adventist coin and start knocking on doors.

This is part of the thing that many bitcoiners are trying to change. We want Bitcoin to become a household word.

Nowadays, many people use credit cards over the Internet. Many people bank over the Internet. So, it isn't a far step to get them to see how they could make money at the same time that they learn a new financial-like method... one that they could use with friends, and even in the business that they own.

This is one idea to move Bitcoin into a big group of people who just might take Bitcoin into the marketplace more than ever, if only they had the right incentive.

Well start Mormoncoin and you'll have everyone know about Bitcoin soon. You don't need a blockchain fork. Just print a public key on a gold plate, brainwash a bunch of teenaged boys and tell them to spread the word of Bitcoin or they'll burn in a fiery hell. As an incentive, tell them when they get back from missionary after converting all those sinners to Bitcoin they can marry and impregnate as many girls as they want to as long as they live in Utah.

[BADecker]

I see what you're trying to do but I don't think you can do it. You want to get people that like to sell their friends on crap like Amway or Melaleuca to sell their friends on Bitcoin. If each person that used Bitcoin could just sell 5 people then Bitcoin would grow much faster. That's the MLM marketing idea and it gets results with a certain type of people but the marketing is word of mouth to friends. What you're forgetting is that Bitcoin isn't really a financial tool it's a cult of people that probably talk about it in their sleep. Everyone bitcoiners know have already been converted or refused Bitcoin and they have no one else to tell. What you need to invent at this point is Seventh Day Adventist coin and start knocking on doors.

This is part of the thing that many bitcoiners are trying to change. We want Bitcoin to become a household word.

Nowadays, many people use credit cards over the Internet. Many people bank over the Internet. So, it isn't a far step to get them to see how they could make money at the same time that they learn a new financial-like method... one that they could use with friends, and even in the business that they own.

This is one idea to move Bitcoin into a big group of people who just might take Bitcoin into the marketplace more than ever, if only they had the right incentive.

Well start Mormoncoin and you'll have everyone know about Bitcoin soon. You don't need a blockchain fork. Just print a public key on a gold plate, brainwash a bunch of teenaged boys and tell them to spread the word of Bitcoin or they'll burn in a fiery hell. As an incentive, tell them when they get back from missionary after converting all those sinners to Bitcoin they can marry and impregnate as many girls as they want to as long as they live in Utah.

You are too funny.

Seriously, there are thousands upon thousands of people who like MLM, and many more thousands who would like it if it were easy. This kind of program would be easy. In addition, it WOULD use the Bitcoin blockchain in exactly the way Bitcoin uses it. Why? Because it IS Bitcoin.

The more I think about it, the more excited I get. Think of a MLM program that you can't easily track for taxes, that doesn't use money so there wouldn't be any taxes anyway, that you wouldn't know who downloaded your client if you had it up on your website, that the product is the payment, that could be set up around the world without getting approval from some nation to enter their country.

This kind of thing, even if various devs from around the world create their own form of it from scratch, could be the thing that crashes fiat. It might be the BIG next level in the whole Bitcoin superstructure. Think about it.

[BADecker]

Another way to slow down the so-called cheating might be to make the newly installed client to be entangled with the machine identification number. This would keep the new install that was created from being usable on the same machine.

This might be a disadvantage where more than one person uses the same computer. It was a thought. How can we work with this. Is there a way? Obviously, a programmer would be able to easily get around this. But the average user wouldn't find it so easy.

[Argwai96]

I see what you're trying to do but I don't think you can do it. You want to get people that like to sell their friends on crap like Amway or Melaleuca to sell their friends on Bitcoin. If each person that used Bitcoin could just sell 5 people then Bitcoin would grow much faster. That's the MLM marketing idea and it gets results with a certain type of people but the marketing is word of mouth to friends. What you're forgetting is that Bitcoin isn't really a financial tool it's a cult of people that probably talk about it in their sleep. Everyone bitcoiners know have already been converted or refused Bitcoin and they have no one else to tell. What you need to invent at this point is Seventh Day Adventist coin and start knocking on doors.

This is part of the thing that many bitcoiners are trying to change. We want Bitcoin to become a household word.

Nowadays, many people use credit cards over the Internet. Many people bank over the Internet. So, it isn't a far step to get them to see how they could make money at the same time that they learn a new financial-like method... one that they could use with friends, and even in the business that they own.

This is one idea to move Bitcoin into a big group of people who just might take Bitcoin into the marketplace more than ever, if only they had the right incentive.

Well start Mormoncoin and you'll have everyone know about Bitcoin soon. You don't need a blockchain fork. Just print a public key on a gold plate, brainwash a bunch of teenaged boys and tell them to spread the word of Bitcoin or they'll burn in a fiery hell. As an incentive, tell them when they get back from missionary after converting all those sinners to Bitcoin they can marry and impregnate as many girls as they want to as long as they live in Utah.

As sarcastic as you are in this post, this is really not all that different from most alt coins that new devs are pushing. Alt coin devs are essentially tricking people into thinking their new coin will be successful even though it has zero real worth. They are also getting people to spread the world about their coin via signature campaigns (see VPN coins and green coin)

[mercistheman]

I have to say it's encouraging to see the resolve within the bitcoin community... with all of the nay sayers... potential regulations, aggressive bears... price drops etc. you'd think there would be more hodlers buckling... However the opposite is happening.
The wise investors are very comfortable with what is lurking around the corner... there has been too many positive developments to fall into the chicken little trap.... the recent sellers will be kicking themselves a new asshole soon enough.
Anyone else think something big is about to happen... Winkle ETF coming soon?

[BADecker]

I see what you're trying to do but I don't think you can do it. You want to get people that like to sell their friends on crap like Amway or Melaleuca to sell their friends on Bitcoin. If each person that used Bitcoin could just sell 5 people then Bitcoin would grow much faster. That's the MLM marketing idea and it gets results with a certain type of people but the marketing is word of mouth to friends. What you're forgetting is that Bitcoin isn't really a financial tool it's a cult of people that probably talk about it in their sleep. Everyone bitcoiners know have already been converted or refused Bitcoin and they have no one else to tell. What you need to invent at this point is Seventh Day Adventist coin and start knocking on doors.

This is part of the thing that many bitcoiners are trying to change. We want Bitcoin to become a household word.

Nowadays, many people use credit cards over the Internet. Many people bank over the Internet. So, it isn't a far step to get them to see how they could make money at the same time that they learn a new financial-like method... one that they could use with friends, and even in the business that they own.

This is one idea to move Bitcoin into a big group of people who just might take Bitcoin into the marketplace more than ever, if only they had the right incentive.

Well start Mormoncoin and you'll have everyone know about Bitcoin soon. You don't need a blockchain fork. Just print a public key on a gold plate, brainwash a bunch of teenaged boys and tell them to spread the word of Bitcoin or they'll burn in a fiery hell. As an incentive, tell them when they get back from missionary after converting all those sinners to Bitcoin they can marry and impregnate as many girls as they want to as long as they live in Utah.

As sarcastic as you are in this post, this is really not all that different from most alt coins that new devs are pushing. Alt coin devs are essentially tricking people into thinking their new coin will be successful even though it has zero real worth. They are also getting people to spread the world about their coin via signature campaigns (see VPN coins and green coin)

There are three major ways Ponzicoin is different from altcoins. The first is, there is really no Ponzicoin. It is all bitcoins, all the way. The second is, being bitcoins, there is no alternate blockchain like there are with most altcoins. The third is that bitcoin doesn't ride on bitcoin like Mastercoin and Counterparty do. Rather, Bitcoin IS Bitcoin; it is itself, and doesn't ride on anything.

The little blockchain inside the client is only for keeping the upline straight. All transactions are done through the regular blockchain... business as usual.

So, what, again, does this mean? It means that there is no altcoin with Ponzicoin.

[BADecker]

I have rewritten the main post at the beginning of this thread, to clarify the simplicity of this basic idea.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=825091.msg9217031#msg9217031

Thanks for reading, and in advance for your input.

[BADecker]

A Ponzi or MLM use a single source of supply to create a profit center. You can buy bitcoins on the open market. That would be like buying your competitors products to sell and would kill your pyramid.

Well, no. You are missing the point.

The Ponzicoin client would actually BE a Bitcoin client. People who joined Ponzicoin would have to buy or obtain their bitcoins from the same place anyone else does. The thing that makes them want to do this is, once they have their .5 bitcoins in their wallet, they can join Ponzicoin by sending to their upline using the checkbox in the client. Now that they have joined, and have created their install program, they can send copies of their install program to people all over the world, with the idea that some would join Ponzicoin, thereby sending them .1 bitcoins... from everyone who joined in their first 5 levels.

A Bitcoin chain letter, all automatic, outside the postal mail or email system.

[BADecker]

A Ponzi or MLM use a single source of supply to create a profit center. You can buy bitcoins on the open market. That would be like buying your competitors products to sell and would kill your pyramid.

MLM people like MLM. They would get all their people in just to make a profit off it.  

It's also easy to cheat. Do MLM people like cheaters?

Freedom isn't cheating. However, one of the things that I am looking for is ideas for making it difficult to do the thing that might be considered cheating by some... to guide folks into the direction of using it as it is. There might come about alt-Ponzicoin clients. But, if we don't do it with Bitcoin, somebody just might apply this idea to Litecoin, or one of the others, that has its own blockchain.

The point is, nobody could control a Bitcoin MLM that was built right into the client. If it caught on in the MLM croud, Bitcoin would explode.

What I'm saying is that your idea is not an MLM. It doesn't work like an MLM. You're not going to fool anyone.

Basically, it is EXACTLY like simple MLM. It works like an automated chain letter that has no mailing or emailing requirements.

You give your install program to your friends. They install it; same as installing the Bitcoin-Qt client. They buy some bitcoins into their wallet, check the checkbox, and hit the button. Precisely .5 bitcoins is sent from the wallet (plus the miner fee), and a new install is created for them to pass on to their MLM friends. There could be a splash page built right into the client that explains how to use Bitcoin for everyday living.

Sure, they could "cheat." They could use the install program they just created, and continue to use it until they had created 5 new Bitcoin-Qt clients so that they could get paid more. But that is what I am asking for here... methods to slow down this "cheating" which really is simply freedom.

Bitcoin is highly resistant to the rules you want to impose. You also offer no incentive to slow down cheating. You can't design a tool with no purpose for its use. If you want to create an MLM using bitcoins, then color some bitcoins and offer an incentive for using them. That's what colored coins are for. You can even create a wallet that uses them in addition to bitcoins.

Bitcoin is absolutely not resistant to the things that I am suggesting in this thread. Everything in the Bitcoin world would continue to act as usual with the Ponzicoin idea. The only thing that might be resistant would be some Bitcoiners who don't like MLM. Some of them might stand to lose if they didn't get with the times and start spreading Bitcoin through the Ponzicoin method.

Actually, I did offer two ideas to slow down cheating (which is really freedom - not cheating). These are the checkbox idea, and the idea of mixing the computer (OS) ID with the setup. This would make it so that a Bitcoiner would have to, at minimum, use a second computer to "cheat." Also, I am asking for ideas how to overcome this "problem."

Why use colored coins when the whole idea is to use bitcoins as they are. That's all this is. The incentive is to make money by spreading Bitcoin around the world.

[BADecker]

A Ponzi or MLM use a single source of supply to create a profit center. You can buy bitcoins on the open market. That would be like buying your competitors products to sell and would kill your pyramid.

The Ponzicoin process is not for buying bitcoins. It is only for spending them upline, with the idea that in the future someone else would sent some to you. All the standard methods for buying and selling bitcoins would be built right into the client, since the client would only be a slight modification of the original Bitcoin-Qt client.

[BADecker]

This sounds a lot like another worthless altcoin to me. I don't see this adding anything of actual value that bitcoin cannot add and the network will obviously be much weaker then the bitcoin network.

Not an altcoin. Ponzicoin is only a name, a front. Is simply another method for using Bitcoin.  

Wait what? How is this not an altcoin? How exactly does this work? Even though it would use the bitcoin blockchain it would still be adding nothing of value that bitcoin does not offer and would essentially be a ponzi (as the name implies). I see no reason to be using this.

It would use the blockchain simply because IT IS BITCOIN, AND BITCOIN USES THE BLOCKCHAIN! The reason to use it is twofold: 1) to spread Bitcoin throughout the MLM/chain letter world; 2) to earn bitcoins by spreading Bitcoin throughout the MLM/chain letter world.

Many people don't need or want Bitcoin. There would be no requirement for you to use it.

[BADecker]

I will never trust any altcoin except for Bitcoin. Ever.

Good. Ponzicoin is not an altcoin. It is Bitcoin.

You might change your mind if the Litecoin people develop this first. Why? Because there are around 100,000 serious MLMers in the United States alone. And there are thousands more who would be if they could find and easy, viable MLM.

WHICHEVER CRYPTOCURRENCY INCORPORATES THE PONZICOIN IDEA INTO THEIR CLIENT FIRST, WILL HAVE A HEAD START ON GRABBING THE MLM/NETWORK MARKETING/CHAIN LETTER PEOPLE INTO THEIR MONEY-MAKING OPERATION.

[BADecker]

I see what you're trying to do but I don't think you can do it. You want to get people that like to sell their friends on crap like Amway or Melaleuca to sell their friends on Bitcoin. If each person that used Bitcoin could just sell 5 people then Bitcoin would grow much faster. That's the MLM marketing idea and it gets results with a certain type of people but the marketing is word of mouth to friends. What you're forgetting is that Bitcoin isn't really a financial tool it's a cult of people that probably talk about it in their sleep. Everyone bitcoiners know have already been converted or refused Bitcoin and they have no one else to tell. What you need to invent at this point is Seventh Day Adventist coin and start knocking on doors.

This is part of the thing that many bitcoiners are trying to change. We want Bitcoin to become a household word.

Nowadays, many people use credit cards over the Internet. Many people bank over the Internet. So, it isn't a far step to get them to see how they could make money at the same time that they learn a new financial-like method... one that they could use with friends, and even in the business that they own.

This is one idea to move Bitcoin into a big group of people who just might take Bitcoin into the marketplace more than ever, if only they had the right incentive.

Well start Mormoncoin and you'll have everyone know about Bitcoin soon. You don't need a blockchain fork. Just print a public key on a gold plate, brainwash a bunch of teenaged boys and tell them to spread the word of Bitcoin or they'll burn in a fiery hell. As an incentive, tell them when they get back from missionary after converting all those sinners to Bitcoin they can marry and impregnate as many girls as they want to as long as they live in Utah.

Actually, this is a good idea. If the church fathers (or whatever they call themselves) would get something like this going with their members, they could get all the "donations" they could ever dream of, way more easily. Who says it has to be 5 upline? Try 10.

This could apply to any church. The point is, think of how Bitcoin would spread if this were done.

[QuestionAuthority]

I see what you're trying to do but I don't think you can do it. You want to get people that like to sell their friends on crap like Amway or Melaleuca to sell their friends on Bitcoin. If each person that used Bitcoin could just sell 5 people then Bitcoin would grow much faster. That's the MLM marketing idea and it gets results with a certain type of people but the marketing is word of mouth to friends. What you're forgetting is that Bitcoin isn't really a financial tool it's a cult of people that probably talk about it in their sleep. Everyone bitcoiners know have already been converted or refused Bitcoin and they have no one else to tell. What you need to invent at this point is Seventh Day Adventist coin and start knocking on doors.

This is part of the thing that many bitcoiners are trying to change. We want Bitcoin to become a household word.

Nowadays, many people use credit cards over the Internet. Many people bank over the Internet. So, it isn't a far step to get them to see how they could make money at the same time that they learn a new financial-like method... one that they could use with friends, and even in the business that they own.

This is one idea to move Bitcoin into a big group of people who just might take Bitcoin into the marketplace more than ever, if only they had the right incentive.

Well start Mormoncoin and you'll have everyone know about Bitcoin soon. You don't need a blockchain fork. Just print a public key on a gold plate, brainwash a bunch of teenaged boys and tell them to spread the word of Bitcoin or they'll burn in a fiery hell. As an incentive, tell them when they get back from missionary after converting all those sinners to Bitcoin they can marry and impregnate as many girls as they want to as long as they live in Utah.

Actually, this is a good idea. If the church fathers (or whatever they call themselves) would get something like this going with their members, they could get all the "donations" they could ever dream of, way more easily. Who says it has to be 5 upline? Try 10.

This could apply to any church. The point is, think of how Bitcoin would spread if this were done.

And don't forget, as much poontang as you want!

[R2D221]

Wait? Who's giving Bitcoins to whom in this idea? I'm lost there.