Anyone knows something about avalon 28nm rigs?

[claytonbat]

Anyone knows something about avalon 28nm rigs?

I want to buy some, and I am in Australia.

Is there any miner group?

[1715461274]

1715461274

[1715461274]

1715461274

[1715461274]

1715461274

[1715461274]

1715461274

[1715461274]

1715461274

[Bicknellski]

Mining is the process of converting energy into proof-of-work
for the purpose of establishing a tamper-resistant historical
record in Bitcoin.

While mining rewards miners with transaction fees and freshly
created coins, mining is not a magical money making process.
In theory, Mining exists in perfect competition, so mining
profitably can be difficult or even impossible.

Currently the Bitcoin system releases ~3600 BTC per day and
these coins are shared proportionally by the miners according
to their relative hashpowers. As overall hashpower increases
the return per hashpower decreases. In recent times hashpower
has been doubling every month or so.

Many mining companies engage in a practice of selling
"pre-orders" thereby shifting the substantial risks of hardware
development entirely onto their customers. The practice of
preorders also exploits ignorance about the future income
mining will yield: People compute their income as if they
had the hardware today, when it's not scheduled for delivery
until months later...

And then almost every hardware maker has missed their
scheduled deadlines. Because of the rapid growth of hashrate
a weeks delay can mean the difference between a nice profit
and a loss. Many makers have also delivered devices substantially
under spec, many others have been outright scams which have
failed to deliver anything at all.

Some of the most experienced people in Bitcoin have lost out
in these offerings, don't just assume you won't be taken.

Companies which have cost people thousands of coins that
they'll never recover are still operating with impunity,
fueled by a seemingly never ending wave of people eager
to get involved who think that mining is a lower risk
way of obtaining coins.

Hosted mining companies with immediately available hashpower
often sell it at greater than it's expected value and themselves
represent enormous consolidation risks to the Bitcoin ecosystem.

In reality, mining is risky: It's riskier than holding
bitcoins because it's comparatively illiquid, and current
mining hardware is not really useful for any other applications.
These risks are multiplied by the unreliability of hardware companies
and the uncertainty of future mining income. Keep in mind: few
companies disclose how much hardware they are selling to other
people, and many of them roll their profits into buying their
own gear at cost and mining in competition with their investor-customers.

That said— I enjoy mining and I would not discourage people
joining in. Mining is essential to the security of Bitcoin.
It's important that mining be widely distributed and especially when people
mine using P2Pool it contributes to keeping Bitcoin decentralized and secure.

Just don't rush in thinking you are going to make a ton of riskless
money. At current retail prices I doubt most hardware available will
break even unless the growth rate slows substantially, which seems
unlikely in the near term. I think the exuberance of miners has
fueled the irresponsibility in hardware companies and driven more
competent and cautious parties out of the market.

It's all our our responsibility to behave sensibly if we want bitcoin
to flourish.

[claytonbat]

Mining is the process of converting energy into proof-of-work
for the purpose of establishing a tamper-resistant historical
record in Bitcoin.

While mining rewards miners with transaction fees and freshly
created coins, mining is not a magical money making process.
In theory, Mining exists in perfect competition, so mining
profitably can be difficult or even impossible.

Currently the Bitcoin system releases ~3600 BTC per day and
these coins are shared proportionally by the miners according
to their relative hashpowers. As overall hashpower increases
the return per hashpower decreases. In recent times hashpower
has been doubling every month or so.

Many mining companies engage in a practice of selling
"pre-orders" thereby shifting the substantial risks of hardware
development entirely onto their customers. The practice of
preorders also exploits ignorance about the future income
mining will yield: People compute their income as if they
had the hardware today, when it's not scheduled for delivery
until months later...

And then almost every hardware maker has missed their
scheduled deadlines. Because of the rapid growth of hashrate
a weeks delay can mean the difference between a nice profit
and a loss. Many makers have also delivered devices substantially
under spec, many others have been outright scams which have
failed to deliver anything at all.

Some of the most experienced people in Bitcoin have lost out
in these offerings, don't just assume you won't be taken.

Companies which have cost people thousands of coins that
they'll never recover are still operating with impunity,
fueled by a seemingly never ending wave of people eager
to get involved who think that mining is a lower risk
way of obtaining coins.

Hosted mining companies with immediately available hashpower
often sell it at greater than it's expected value and themselves
represent enormous consolidation risks to the Bitcoin ecosystem.

In reality, mining is risky: It's riskier than holding
bitcoins because it's comparatively illiquid, and current
mining hardware is not really useful for any other applications.
These risks are multiplied by the unreliability of hardware companies
and the uncertainty of future mining income. Keep in mind: few
companies disclose how much hardware they are selling to other
people, and many of them roll their profits into buying their
own gear at cost and mining in competition with their investor-customers.

That said— I enjoy mining and I would not discourage people
joining in. Mining is essential to the security of Bitcoin.
It's important that mining be widely distributed and especially when people
mine using P2Pool it contributes to keeping Bitcoin decentralized and secure.

Just don't rush in thinking you are going to make a ton of riskless
money. At current retail prices I doubt most hardware available will
break even unless the growth rate slows substantially, which seems
unlikely in the near term. I think the exuberance of miners has
fueled the irresponsibility in hardware companies and driven more
competent and cautious parties out of the market.

It's all our our responsibility to behave sensibly if we want bitcoin
to flourish.

Mining is the base of bitcoin industry.

And based on the calculation, mining is still worth investment.

[Bicknellski]

Mining is the base of bitcoin industry.

And based on the calculation, mining is still worth investment.

Prove it with your numbers right here.

Let us see your profit buying an Avalon 28nm unit shipped to Australia with electricity costs over  .29 cents a KwH in 2011. http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/average-electricity-prices-kwh

I don't think you can show that at all. Even with the lowest cost of electricity small home mining is now dead with the price of BTC at this time. And farms are likely going to shut down as they stop being profitable. Unless you are spending millions on this I suggest you don't start especially with Avalon given their past failures.

[Blazed]

Regardless of positive ROI..I would buy from a more reputable company. Avalon has quite a shady past and I would not trust them.

[Bicknellski]

Regardless of positive ROI..I would buy from a more reputable company. Avalon has quite a shady past and I would not trust them.

Regardless of making a profit?

Ummm if that is the case why not just buy BTC?

Why risk waiting for something that could be faulty or damaged in shipping? Seriously at this point there is no good reason to buy a miner for your home thinking it is an investment.

Thinking the OP is an Avalon shill account.

[Blazed]

What I meant was nothing for sale makes a positive ROI, yet people still buy it. So ignoring that fact don't buy from scammers is all.

[Bicknellski]

What I meant was nothing for sale makes a positive ROI, yet people still buy it. So ignoring that fact don't buy from scammers is all.

I see.

Yes but not all are scammers.

Nothing at this point is profitable be it legit or not. Unless someone has some sort of magic formula for home mining that they are not sharing.

[ngzhang]

So, what do you want to know? 

[Bicknellski]

So, what do you want to know?  

Why the chips were late and people lost millions in the process?  
What did Yifu do to cause the chip delay?
How can anyone be sure that you won't screw over customers like that again?
Why should anyone buy your new units when they will not be profitable?

[ngzhang]

So, what do you want to know?  

Why the chips were late and people lost millions in the process?  
What did Yifu do to cause the chip delay?
How can anyone be sure that you won't screw over customers like that again?
Why should anyone buy your new units when they will not be profitable?

Why kids are still on this declined forum?

[Bicknellski]

Why are dishonest people running companies not willing to answer customers legitimate questions still coming to this forum that is in decline?

Questions still there they haven't changed since you screwed over the DIY community to the tune of millions.

Sample:

Hi Yifu,


I still not recieved 5 Avalon Units from Avalon batch 2
paid 75 btc for each

i have no information about delivery, about track number or even a response from you !


I created a lot of tickets ( last one #1410)
and write a letter to your e-mail


Can you help with that ?
Can i hope for refund ?



Best regards
Alexey

[Niggle]

Why kids are still on this declined forum?

Which one is the non declined forum?

[Bicknellski]

Why kids are still on this declined forum?

Which one is the non declined forum?

I guess the one where Avalon is well respected and people FORGOT what happened in 2013?

Would the 28nm be profitable? Nope nothing is at this point especially anything shipped to Australia and plugged into the wall at 30 cents a kwh.

So the OP should just avoid mining altogether in Australia. Just buy BTC and hold.

[ScryptAsic]

Anyone knows something about avalon 28nm rigs?

I want to buy some, and I am in Australia.

Is there any miner group?

I dont get it, why do you want to buy avalon 28nm? You should buy better and cheaper gear from bitmaintech instead..

[Unacceptable]

So, what do you want to know?  

Why the chips were late and people lost millions in the process?  
What did Yifu do to cause the chip delay?
How can anyone be sure that you won't screw over customers like that again?
Why should anyone buy your new units when they will not be profitable?

Why kids are still on this declined forum?

Thank you for causing me to lose several hundred dollars (& several million by all counts) by delaying your group buy chip sales 

Fuck you!! & your brother Yifu !!!!!!!!! .!..

BTW,I'm being nice here.....................................

[RoadStress]

So, what do you want to know?  

Why the chips were late and people lost millions in the process?  
What did Yifu do to cause the chip delay?
How can anyone be sure that you won't screw over customers like that again?
Why should anyone buy your new units when they will not be profitable?

Why kids are still on this declined forum?

Same reason scammers like you are allowed on this forum! Stay away from Avalon. ngzhang seems like he wants to be Avalon's Inaba...

[Bicknellski]

Anyone knows something about avalon 28nm rigs?

I want to buy some, and I am in Australia.

Is there any miner group?

I dont get it, why do you want to buy avalon 28nm? You should buy better and cheaper gear from bitmaintech instead..

Why would you buy at all?

Do you have some comments on how mining will turn now? A lot of home miners stopped mining due to -ve ROI.

Interesting question. All the more interesting because no one has actually asked me before on the forums, even though I've discussed it at length on IRC and am very happy at any time for people to know what I think.

Mining died for the community/home miner a long time ago. It's just that the community miners haven't realised or accepted it yet. Community mining is only 15% of the hashrate now and shrinking. They're always hopeful and expectant but there really is no reason for them to be that way. Mining has gone to the data halls and the massive farms, mostly run by the manufacturers themselves who have the ability to create hardware on the cheap and offer it to the select few entities who can help their mining operations or provide funding or cheap hosting, instead of the consumer buyer market which is annoying, small time, noisy and boring. The only reason they continue to sell to that regular consumer market is there are enough people who have unrealistic expectations of making a profit somehow because they simply cannot believe that the numbers are stacked against them, such that the hardware manufacturers can charge a ridiculous premium to sell to that market to make it worth their while.

This should come as no surprise to anyone who's been watching bitcoin at large, but it will continue to surprise bitcoin miners, past, present and future. The reason miners don't see it is they're so blinded by the concept of a "money making machine" or the "goose that laid the golden egg" that they just can't see it.

Here's a quote of mine. Note the date on it:

Long term, cgminer will be the lowest overhead c software to drive ASICs to do bitcoin mining, with lots of code in it that is no longer relevant to BTC mining. What I really worry about, is that new hardware will continue to come out frequently enough that people end up on a cycle of investing in hardware that basically never pays itself off as slightly newer hardware and higher diffs keep coming out. Sure at some stage the limits of technology will be reached, but given the best tech at the moment is going to be 65nm ASICs when CPUs are 28nm devices, I can see the cycle going on for some time, and then even if btc mining ASICs end up in line with CPU manufacturers, they still continue to evolve over time. Dramatic profits from ASICs will likely only last a couple of weeks at most for a lucky few. The rest of you who paid for devices that don't even exist yet will not be making any magical profit no matter how big the hashrate appears. Your proportion of the total bitcoin hashrate will remain pitiful.

To give you an idea of how long this has been known to the bitcoin community, even if miners refuse to see it, I think it's best to leave the final word to Satoshi himself, the inventor of bitcoin:

The current system where every user is a network node is not the intended configuration for large scale.  That would be like every Usenet user runs their own NNTP server.  The design supports letting users just be users.  The more burden it is to run a node, the fewer nodes there will be.  Those few nodes will be big server farms.  The rest will be client nodes that only do transactions and don't generate.

[Bogart]

What happened to you Ng?